1. #1
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Belgium, EU
    Posts
    616

    A simple solution to avoid penalizing Prot Warriors in 5.2.

    A simple solution for the Prot version of Shockwave is simply to leave it as it... and apply the current change (40 sec CD) for the DPS spec Shockwave. This way Arms/Fury still have the option to take the talent for AoE, without having a somewhat OP version of it in single target PvP situations.

    Right now, even though the CD is reduced by 20 sec when we hit 3+ targets, as Prot we are still immensely penalized.

    Let's say you use a SW on the last two mobs of a pack on CM, to reduce incoming damage, and they die within the next 20 sec; with the current version of the spell (5.1), it would be up for the next pack, and would allow you, not only a better aggro burst to pick it up, but also a nice CC to reduce damage while your healer is still catching up for example.
    Having to wait some 20 seconds more then, is simply not justified, and absolutely a bad design.

    Shockwave has been an iconic Prot spell for both CC, damage reduction, and AoE threat/damage burst, since WoTLK (4 years now...), and no one has ever complained about it, because in that domain, it has absolutely nothing epic or OP. It's not better than a DK's D&D, or a Pally's Consecration just different, and very often, only allow us to make up for the lack of a ''zone AoE'' effect like those, and still remain good at picking up mobs - even those that are rushing from multiple directions.

    There are many situations in which you'd still use your SW to pick up only two mobs... then what ? You have to wait for 40 seconds before you can use it again ? Why should we have this sort of downside now, if it has been working nicely for 4 years, and is still working just fine ?
    I agree the state of SW right now for damage dealer Warriors is perhaps not the right one, but sadly that has absolutely nothing to do with Prot... whether we're talking about PvE or PvP.

    So obviously, I think this change as it is right now, isn't wise at all. It will indeed solve some of the issues we're seeing in PvP (too much CC's), but will also greatly harm a pretty important ability for Protection Warrior.

    Thus, a simple solution as I mentioned, is to make the DPS version of Shockwave different from the Prot version ==> problem solved. This is already the case damage-wise for the two other talents of the tier, so why can't it be done here ?


    PS :
    This also goes for Second Wind of course, since there's absolutely nothing to be complained about in PvE, as many other classes have way more (and stronger) regeneration abilities than that. So again, why are we being penalized by an issue that doesn't even concern us in PvE ? : (

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 11:45 AM ----------

    PPS : I'm also really wondering why the 10% flat nerf on Shield Barrier ?
    If it's too strong, how would a 10% nerf change anything ? And if it isn't too strong, then why nerf it at all ? Is it again because of PvP ? I really hope not.

  2. #2
    It's pretty typical alright. When you finally thought they had found some way to seperate PvP and PvE balancing they clearly show they do not know/care about it enough. And yeah, the damage removed from heroic leap because of PvP? Talk about killing a fun part of warrior AoE whether you're prot or arms or fury. Take away fun mechanics and compensate with %'s on really bland standstill-abilites. Brilliant.

  3. #3
    Like I said on official forum:

    I'm still thinking that the best answer to a pvp-related problem is a pvp-related solution. The 40s cd of Shockwave should only be triggered in arena/battlegrounds.

    Though, your solution looks like a good happy medium.

  4. #4
    I agree. Though I'd like for PvE Shockwave to be unchanged in general (I specc SW for challenge modes and I'm fury).

  5. #5
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Smokenhagen (Denmark)
    Posts
    67
    OP:

    Amen, brother ! It's weird that they nerf something that works fine for PvE because it's too good in PvP. I've always been against spells that change when you enter a BG or Arena, unless the change appears in the tooltip.

    I know the spell seem a little unbalanced overall but the idea about making it 20 sec for Prot and 40 sec for Arms/Fury. Maybe I've missed af crucial reason for the incomming nerf? Only reason i could think of for prot would be our AoE since they also nerfed the Heroic Leap Glyph. But then again Revenge dmg is also changed and nothing is done to TC/Deep Wounds. This is definately a PvP issue.

    Thankfully, this is what the PTR is all about: Testing and feedback. If you intend to be active on PTR, don't hesitate to post comments on the official forums. The more feedback they get the better. Looking very much forward to the final patch notes before launch.
    Last edited by Moocares; 2012-12-22 at 01:54 PM.
    Fat kids are harder to kidnap

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Like I said on official forum:

    I'm still thinking that the best answer to a pvp-related problem is a pvp-related solution. The 40s cd of Shockwave should only be triggered in arena/battlegrounds.

    Though, your solution looks like a good happy medium.
    I've said this before, they need to make this distinction. Abilities should work one way in the world and in raid/dungeons. They should be balanced separately in arenas and even BGs. Nerfing an ability because of PVP breaks PVE, it's happened many times before. One of the notable fuckups was destroying Warbringer.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Belgium, EU
    Posts
    616
    @Senen/Idefiler6/Maxie :

    Yep, agreed. Only problem is, I'm fairly convinced there's no way they'll do things that way. It would mean changing a lot of spells for a lot of classes, and doubling their work when it comes to balancing. There's no way they'd agree to something like that, though IMO, it's the best solution.


    @Moocares:

    Yep, I've already posted this on the EU official forums, but we all know that isn't much, : )
    I don't have access to the US forums, so I guess MMOC is the next best thing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by L Kebess View Post
    PPS : I'm also really wondering why the 10% flat nerf on Shield Barrier ?
    If it's too strong, how would a 10% nerf change anything ? And if it isn't too strong, then why nerf it at all ? Is it again because of PvP ? I really hope not.
    Well I would presume that this is actually about pve and scaling with high amounts of damage income. Personally though I thought it was still fine for the lack of any mentionable selfheal. I was quite a bit more astonished by the prot damage changes personally.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Belgium, EU
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Well I would presume that this is actually about pve and scaling with high amounts of damage income. Personally though I thought it was still fine for the lack of any mentionable selfheal.
    I see what you mean - but then, shouldn't they do the same thing for Guardian's Frenzied Regen and Pally's WoG ? Since they're using the same formula as our Shield Barrier.

    Agreed that absorption and pure healing aren't exactly the same, but in this case they both have their advantages and disadvantages, so why not make the balancing across the board ?

    I was quite a bit more astonished by the prot damage changes personally.
    For the Revenge/SS AP scaling, after some quick calculations, it shouldn't affect us that much. It will in fact increase our DPS as long as we remain under some 60/70k AP, and it's only above that amount that we should start seeing a slight decrease.

    This will in fact improve our off-tanking DPS, and in most cases leave our main-tanking DPS unchanged. I'm not really that much concerned here thus.

  10. #10
    The Shield Barrier nerf is fine (even though it is bad for soloing old content. )
    If they don't nerf Shield Barrier, Shield Block will become useless before the end of the expansion.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Belgium, EU
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    The Shield Barrier nerf is fine (even though it is bad for soloing old content. )
    If they don't nerf Shield Barrier, Shield Block will become useless before the end of the expansion.
    Problem is, they're actually buffing FR for Guardians. So nerfing SBar isn't really a wise thing to do, if the idea is to keep things all balanced amongst different tanking classes.

    If the problem is SB vs SBar, then there's other ways to solve the issue without creating some new ones.
    Last edited by L Kebess; 2012-12-23 at 06:57 AM.

  12. #12
    Hey, guys. Guess what? PTR is PTR. Nothing is set in stone until the patch hit's live, and even then, blizz will listen to QQ and probably implement some other bandaid to make people happy again and piss other people off. Also, moaning about it on mmo-champ where blues won't see it won't get it fixed. Tell them your concerns on blizzard forums. Make yourself heard. Justify why you think this change is bad and how you think it can be fixed. And no, it likely won't go back to 20 sec CD for everyone. Warriors are already too stunny in PVP. Be creative and tell blizzard what you think.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Belgium, EU
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    Hey, guys. Guess what? PTR is PTR. Nothing is set in stone until the patch hit's live, and even then, blizz will listen to QQ and probably implement some other bandaid to make people happy again and piss other people off. Also, moaning about it on mmo-champ where blues won't see it won't get it fixed. Tell them your concerns on blizzard forums. Make yourself heard. Justify why you think this change is bad and how you think it can be fixed. And no, it likely won't go back to 20 sec CD for everyone. Warriors are already too stunny in PVP. Be creative and tell blizzard what you think.
    You obviously didn't read the OP, or any of the comments below it. Too bad, : (

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 10:14 AM ----------

    Anyways, let's try to discuss the matter at hand, and not deviate into anything else.

  14. #14
    the best solution. take the E-sports arena, and just make it it's own stand-alone game. then rip every single piece of it out of WoW. problem solved.

  15. #15
    I'm planning to be very active on the PTR Class Forum section this upcoming PTR Testing. Some of these changes are atrocious to Protection.

    I hope a lot of you let your voices be heard then.... I understand Warriors in PvP are overpowered right now but these nerfs are killing some of the fun factor of playing Protection in Raids and Challenge Modes.

    Another solution is to simply remove Shockwave as an Talent and instead be made baseline for Protection Warriors.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Belgium, EU
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastyn View Post
    I'm planning to be very active on the PTR Class Forum section this upcoming PTR Testing. Some of these changes are atrocious to Protection.

    I hope a lot of you let your voices be heard then.... I understand Warriors in PvP are overpowered right now but these nerfs are killing some of the fun factor of playing Protection in Raids and Challenge Modes.

    Another solution is to simply remove Shockwave as an Talent and instead be made baseline for Protection Warriors.
    I feel your pain, mate. I'll try to participate AMAP to the PTR as well. I really hope they'd eventually make it possible to post on all WoW forums, no matter your region.

    Anyways, these changes/nerfs are obviously unnecessary and too destructive for Protection. It would be a true bummer, if they were to go live - they ought to realize it eventually.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •