1. #1

    A thought on Second Wind.

    Let's take a look at our class, shall we?

    Our healing abilities, have a long history of being reliant on damage.

    Enraged Regeneration- Heals the Warrior instantly for 10% of their maximum health, and an additional 10% over 5 seconds. Costs 60 Rage, unless enraged, and then it costs no Rage.

    Notably, on this spell, the requirement to using it is damage, or combat. Rage, something only gained by combat actions, and other spells like shouts, and our only resource. Even so, using this ability on CD, which is 1 minute, you regain 20% of your health each minute through this ability alone.

    Victory Rush- Attacks the target for 15,169 damage, and instantly heals you for 20% of your maximum health.

    One of the most obvious examples of healing based on damage, this ability is only usable after obtaining a killing blow on an enemy that grants experience or honor. This is a great Battleground move, as there are many people and you have healers (hopefully), but as far as soloing or dueling, this spell is ultimately useless.

    Impending Victory- Instantly attacks the target for 12,641 damage and healing you for 10% of your maximum health. 30 Second CD. Costs 10 Rage, Replaces Victory Rush. Though, Killing an enemy that yields experience or honor resets the CD of impending victory and causes the next Impending Victory to heal for 20% of your maximum health.

    The improved version of Victory rush, instead with a rage cost, and a CD that allows the warrior to get a small portion of health back every 30 seconds. Taking Impending Victory, however makes the Warrior lose out on stronger CD's like Second Wind, or Enraged Regeneration. Those of which are ultimately more "reliable" in a PvP setting. The most common use for this ability is soloing, or an on-command heal for tanks in a PvE setting.

    Second Wind- While below 35% health, the warrior regenerates 3% of his/her maximum health a second.

    This talent is in lieu of others, such as Impending Victory and Enraged Regeneration. Sub 35% health, warriors with this talent tend to turn into turtles, focusing all their defensive CD's here so that people can't kill them. This talent, fantastic for soloing, because anything that cannot do more than 3% of the warriors health per second of damage, cannot kill him. This is the go to talent for warrior self healing, and while reliable, it has proven hard to balance, and strays from the normal warrior archetype of damage = healing.


    Here is what I propose.

    Remove Second Wind. The move is the obvious choice, leaving the other talents unused and considered not viable.

    In lieu of Second Wind, introduce a new talent called Bloodthirsty.

    Bloodthirsty- Heals the warrior for 30% of their damage done for (x) seconds. This spell is off the Global CD, and has 90 second CD.

    Obviously, people will be skeptic whether or not this is actually a good decision. My premise for this change, is simple. Second Wind, has been hard to balance, it is a reliable self heal that never ends, and as much as I want to say being a turtle is fun, it does little to prove variant in skill. Bloodthirsty would give the warrior more control over their heal, however they need to also be careful. They are still susceptible to CC effects during it's duration, and if used at a poor time, will not benefit from the full duration of the heal.

    I know, it has it's flaws, but thoughts?

  2. #2
    It is to reliable for warriors.

    Blizzard made sure every class has a selfheal (to make certain experience better) but they made sure not every class has the same level of healing.

    Warriors the non magical plate class should not have a reliable self-healing ability simply because it doesn't really fit the class (Impending Victory comes close but the ability only shines during a heavy add fights or levelling).

  3. #3
    No i dont want my onl viable soloing selfheal taken away. its just bullshit and ever was to try to balance pvp and pve with the exact same abilities. just tweak the numbers for pvp an its fine. i dont pvp much but i always hear how everyone has this insane burst. how about u time this burst to kill a warrior in a way that second wind doesnt even kick in?

  4. #4
    Making it dependant on damage totally excludes prots. Don´t destroy pve by messing around with pvp.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    simply because it doesn't really fit the class
    Luckily enough that argument doesn't mean much these days.
    Selfhealing based on damage always sounded interesting although putting an ability like this into the talent likely wouldn't work right now because of prot.
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Making it dependant on damage totally excludes prots. Don´t destroy pve by messing around with pvp.
    I agree on the latter notion but is second wind actually any relevant for tanks ? I mean there are times I see it healing for less than a million over an entire evening of heroic 25 man hc farm runs and considering how retarded tank damage still is on several encounters I have more concerns that it would be ridiculously strong.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-23 at 01:13 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    It is to reliable for warriors.

    Blizzard made sure every class has a selfheal (to make certain experience better) but they made sure not every class has the same level of healing.

    Warriors the non magical plate class should not have a reliable self-healing ability simply because it doesn't really fit the class (Impending Victory comes close but the ability only shines during a heavy add fights or levelling).
    you are so wrong its not funny-everything in this game has changed over the years,warriors have to change with it.2nd wind fits warriors perfectly,the lower health/longer the fight,the stronger the warrior gets.its funny you brought you plate Armour,like Armour matters anymore in game lmfao.

  7. #7
    The problem with second wind is that it is too powerful for being an auto non skill needed spell. Retributions, ferals, and enhancements can heal as much as a warrior with second wind, but they need to think when to use it, when to trigger it and not just stand there doing nothing and letting the game heal you.

    And as some has pointed out, the problem is that defensive cds has the exact same timer as offensive, so anytime you try to blow up a warrior he just pops defensives and keeps itself up with second wind.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shamental View Post
    The problem with second wind is that it is too powerful for being an auto non skill needed spell. Retributions, ferals, and enhancements can heal as much as a warrior with second wind, but they need to think when to use it, when to trigger it and not just stand there doing nothing and letting the game heal you.

    And as some has pointed out, the problem is that defensive cds has the exact same timer as offensive, so anytime you try to blow up a warrior he just pops defensives and keeps itself up with second wind.

    2nd wind has been nerfed,and no its not op'ed when you take in to account thats its a warriors ONLY HEAL.its has to be strong to keep us up.like you said we cant heal when we want to.or do you thinks its op'ed because a good warrior will try and run away and los when hes low to heal up a little?wow thats called thinking,how dare a player los,cc,stun, vanish, so they can heal up,mans thats dumb,o wait.

    i never had a problem killing another warrior threw 2nd wind at all.people who complain about 2nd are just bad pvpers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 08:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    It is to reliable for warriors.

    Blizzard made sure every class has a selfheal (to make certain experience better) but they made sure not every class has the same level of healing.

    Warriors the non magical plate class should not have a reliable self-healing ability simply because it doesn't really fit the class (Impending Victory comes close but the ability only shines during a heavy add fights or levelling).
    hell while we are at it,lets give warriors bigger heal pools then any other class and make us the only plate class again.hows that sound?thats what warriors once were.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    2nd wind has been nerfed,and no its not op'ed when you take in to account thats its a warriors ONLY HEAL.its has to be strong to keep us up.like you said we cant heal when we want to.or do you thinks its op'ed because a good warrior will try and run away and los when hes low to heal up a little?wow thats called thinking,how dare a player los,cc,stun, vanish, so they can heal up,mans thats dumb,o wait.

    i never had a problem killing another warrior threw 2nd wind at all.people who complain about 2nd are just bad pvpers.
    Nah, being a holy paladin myself I can be CCed and let my warrior tank dmg below 30%, the only time I have to panic and trinket or bubble is when they are using CDs and my warriors doesnt have his, otherwise he can easily survive the damage output.

    Second wind is too strong atm, 2% might help to balance it, you can be a warrior, you can be a lover or a hater, it doesn't matter, they are nerfing is because it is too strong, there is nothing else to add.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by shamental View Post
    Nah, being a holy paladin myself I can be CCed and let my warrior tank dmg below 30%, the only time I have to panic and trinket or bubble is when they are using CDs and my warriors doesnt have his, otherwise he can easily survive the damage output.

    Second wind is too strong atm, 2% might help to balance it, you can be a warrior, you can be a lover or a hater, it doesn't matter, they are nerfing is because it is too strong, there is nothing else to add.
    just because they nerf it doe snot mean its justified.or do you really think warrior fear needed to be nerfed because it was game braking?and if you can sit in cc when your warriors is below 30% and hes doe snot die.that tells me one thing,you play low ranked pvp.and like i said in my last post,bad pvpers are the ones that cry about 2nd wind.

    2nd wind fixes a long time problem, training warriors in arena for easy kills.or do you think that did not go on for years?

  11. #11
    This is so funny, 2nd wind op? So when you get a Ret pally down to 20-30% and he LoH to full health instantly, that not op?
    And then bubble if the heat gets on again, I mean really?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    just because they nerf it doe snot mean its justified.or do you really think warrior fear needed to be nerfed because it was game braking?and if you can sit in cc when your warriors is below 30% and hes doe snot die.that tells me one thing,you play low ranked pvp.and like i said in my last post,bad pvpers are the ones that cry about 2nd wind.

    2nd wind fixes a long time problem, training warriors in arena for easy kills.or do you think that did not go on for years?
    Yea I play low ranked pvp, yep we are bad pvpers, yet second wind is still op, idk what rating has to do with an skill being op, don't be blindfolded. I play with my hunter for points too and they nerfed it to the ground because it was OP as hell, what does rating has to do with that? Pvp doesn't balance around 3000 rated teams.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Hildefuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamental View Post
    idk what rating has to do with an skill being op, don't be blindfolded
    Actually it does, what some people percieve as being op, others don't because they either don't know how to either counter it or use it properly, which is why balance should be based around good players' feedback, not bad ones.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    It is to reliable for warriors.

    Blizzard made sure every class has a selfheal (to make certain experience better) but they made sure not every class has the same level of healing.

    Warriors the non magical plate class should not have a reliable self-healing ability simply because it doesn't really fit the class (Impending Victory comes close but the ability only shines during a heavy add fights or levelling).
    The way second wind is now stacked ontop of other warrior defensive cd's is actually in some ways better than Ret paladin self healing as a defense (since the healing nerfs).

  15. #15
    I just hate pvper who just shout nerf nerf nerf without taking a single thought on how your bullshit affects pve.
    they post in the warrior forum that the warrior is op and just after half of their text it is clear that they ONLY mean pvp. go to the pvp forums if you want to whine. and stop trying to mess with my soloing/raiding.
    qas a fury second wind is damn important for me for raiding /questing/farming/soloing so just go away ...

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