Especially from the progression point of view of the top guilds like it was in Tier 14? I've looked at Paragon, Method and Blood Legion and noticed their DPS warriors were usually on the bottom of the DPS meter.
Fury is pretty decent. Arms is not viable in heroic raids.
No love for the Arms warriors. If we're gonna do bad dps at least give us a shield.
Someone has to be better than someone. Arms excel on a few fights and is perfectly "viable" in HM on all fights. Fury does more dps but that doesn't mean Arms is not viable.
Seriously you don't even have to be good at Fury to demolish Arms DPS right now in heroic raids.
DPS warrior utility is off the charts compared to where it used to be. Banners, Rallying cry, slows, stuns (one ranged), and very potent execute range DPS. Don't forget DBTS either. I think warriors are in a good spot considering Oixte is part of Paragon's roster and Paragon doesn't choose bad classes I imagine.
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Not sure what kind of warriors you play with, or what logs you are looking at..........but good warriors are the ones doing the carrying.
This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've seen in a while. If you play a warrior and you aren't consistently on top (or near the top) of your 25 man raid then you are doing it wrong. Of course this depends on your guild's strategy/buffs/debuffs available and a multitude of other things, but generally speaking, warriors are usually top 5 damage done.
Who knows, maybe the other classes in my raid are just bad.
Last edited by Gromnak; 2012-12-17 at 08:20 AM.
1.) Comparing a spec that the best of the top guilds are playing to another spec that is at least slightly inferior leads to a skewed data pool, due to the higher geared and higher skilled players playing one spec instead of another. Thus, epeen bot or WOL may show a much larger disparity than actually exists.
2.) Fury is quite a bit more RNG than arms, meaning that the range kill to kill is larger. Similar to fire mages in cata (IDK how they are now) the variable of damage done can be much higher or lower as fury, again skewing data.
3.) Weapons are still a huge issue. I havn't gotten a single 1 hander yet, and even with a 504 shin'ka and 493 starshatter, arms is simming around 4k higher, and in tests has proven to be within the expected error range. Fury isn't going to be automatically better. (Note we also are missing the crit buff, which is around a 2.7% SEP loss as arms, but a 5.5% or so SEP lose as fury.)
4.) In many cases, unless you are consistently hitting the enrage timer at the end, doing potentially less DPS for a more consistent number may actually be more optimal for fights where timing (Such as killing adds or getting the boss to a certain % at just the right time) is key.
I'm ignoring the skill factor, because a really good warrior will be able to play both specs equally well, and we are talking about good warriors, not average.
I do not disagree that fury>arms in most cases, with everything been equal (All buffs, optimal gear setup, etc) but the 24% number you stated is just plain wrong.
As well, I'd wish more people would link their armory/logs/wowheroes so I know whether to take them serious or not. Otherwise it's hard to know who is just trolling, who is misinformed, and who is honestly contributing to discussions.
Arms is not worth playing in pve dps. the only time i would ever consider doing it in its current form was prenerf garalon when you got extra damage from sweeping strikes. in every other situation you can do way more dps as fury. I went arms to try it after I got heroic starshatter, and i did a whopping 83k dps on protectors of the endless elite, which was rank 76 in the world since no one plays the spec. If i had needlessly meter padded with sweeping strikes I could do way more, but it's pointless. Besides, fury cleave is just as good, if not better than arms.
I am not saying i played perfectly, but I had respectable ranks in dragon soul when arms was actually good, so I've had success with it in the past.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-obj99vk23jrjwice/ arms best
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g5...?s=6598&e=6997 fury best
**on topic** fury's dps is easily competitive with the other top classes, aside from fire mages before the nerf.
I've been playing arms the entire tier and found it viable enough, I'm in the top 5 for almost every single fight in my guild and they aren't bad players.
I love how some people still discount weapon availability and gear in all this.
Most people that play arms in progression currently dont go: HERP I WANNA PLAY ARMS SCREW YOU RAID I DONT CARE ABOUT DPS
but simply test how much damage they deal as fury, how much damage they deal as arms and specc accordingly.
arms is viable, if you sim your gear with arms vs fury until quite high gear levels you will often find arms pulling ahead, its a very nice all rounder spec too as its amazing in 5 mans/challenge modes/leveling etc plus it has good cleave and aoe. Single target its not as good as fury but its very close, so few people play it still that looking at logs/rankings isnt the best way to determine its viability, I know from personal experience that arms was simming higher and in our raids performing better than fury until I had double heroic 2h and 4 piece, and even then its close enough that you can still play arms and be viable.
For example on Feng heroic my highest log is 137k as fury and 129k as arms, the difference isn't big enough to worry about unless your hitting enrages or a very min/max player in which case you would likely be switching between specs constantly anyway as several fights favour each spec more.
My personal problem with arms is that you have no control at all over tfb procs and SD procs, as gear improves these things don't really change unlike Fury with RB procs and enrage uptimes becoming more consistent with gear, this leaves the problem that the spec never feels like its becoming more powerful with gear, you pretty much have the same amount of rage rng and the rest at most gear levels. They need a more controllable scalable mechanic for arms really, perhaps MS crits could proc tfb stacks and non MS crits could just give like 2 OP uses or something, or they could make it so if you overpower during CS it increases its duration on the target or something, Im not sure but blizz really needs to add a new scalable controllable mechanic to arms to stop it feeling a bit dull to play.
Warriors are near or at the top on quite a few HM fights. It was a strong tier for Fury, really. Arms is another story, but if you're stubborn and won't switch to Fury for whatever reason, you're probably not that concerned about competitive DPS or pushing progression.