Thread: 2H vs DW

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    The design choice that dw frost currently conflicts with is that classes don't get free aoe or cleave damage.
    That was abandoned halfway through Cataclysm. Tons of specs have free AE and cleave now. They added a bunch more in MoP too.

  2. #42
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zadtrp View Post
    I actually do considerably more dps as 2H. And that's saying a lot as the rotation for DW is the easiest rotation in WoW. Ever. By the third day you will be ripping your ears off as the sound of howling blast will start to make your head hurt; it's spammed so often. It takes zero skill and maybe that's why so many people do it. But if you have the situational awareness, understand the 2H build, and have some skill you can pull far more single target dmg as 2H. Now for aoe once you hit 3 to 4. targets then DW is def better due to the nature of HB given you respec for mastery. But if you get frazzled in raids easy or breathe primarily out of your mouth DW is the way to go. Otherwise go 2H.
    It really gets annoying when I see people say this kind of thing. You do better as 2h? Then you are playing DW wrong (can't be that easy if you're doing it wrong, funny that) or have better gear (weapons) as 2H. YOU personally doing better as a spec doesn't mean the spec is better.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DW is hard in the slightest, but you make out like compared to everything else it's brain-dead easy. It's not like 2H is hard either, tbh I'd say 2H is even easier - you're just being extremely bias because you don't like the fact that you press 1 button a lot. You also press Obliterate a lot too, so? o.O

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't understand the constant assertions of how easy Masterfrost is. Relative to what? It feels like a normal DPS cycle to me, roughly on par with most other specs.

  4. #44
    Yep, it's easier than some and harder than others. It's certainly more challenging than 2H frost, although neither one is exactly rocket-surgery. And if you choose to take plague leech and blood tap, it's one of the most difficult priorities to execute in the game.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    That was abandoned halfway through Cataclysm. Tons of specs have free AE and cleave now. They added a bunch more in MoP too.
    Yet they keep nerfing blade flurry and sweeping strikes.

    I have no idea what blizzard are trying to do any more.

  6. #46
    They're nothing if not inconsistent!

    Blade Flurry made it through the beginning of Cataclysm, when everybody's cleave/AE was nerfed to hell. Now that everybody else is buffed back up, they're nerfing Blade Flurry. It is totally bizarre. But this isn't the rogue forums, so... anyway.

  7. #47
    It's important to remember that, as far as single-target is concerned, it's highly dependent on your weapon anyway. If you have a higher ilvl 2h available than 1h weapons, it's likely that you'll do better as 2h than 1h on single-target fights.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    It really gets annoying when I see people say this kind of thing. You do better as 2h? Then you are playing DW wrong (can't be that easy if you're doing it wrong, funny that) or have better gear (weapons) as 2H. YOU personally doing better as a spec doesn't mean the spec is better.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DW is hard in the slightest, but you make out like compared to everything else it's brain-dead easy. It's not like 2H is hard either, tbh I'd say 2H is even easier - you're just being extremely bias because you don't like the fact that you press 1 button a lot. You also press Obliterate a lot too, so? o.O
    Well I'm not going to keep throwing this dead horse back and forth. If your able to keep your uptime and clean rotation in a raid 2H will be better. (Single Target) There are a number of places to look and see this. For example.

    http://www.icy-veins.com/frost-death...-pve-dps-guide

    The two-handed playstyle currently performs considerably better than the dual-wielding one.

    There are many other sites and addons that confirm/prove/beat the dead horse repeatedly on this.

    But for argument sake this is just my opinion. The only way to prove it to yourself is to get out there and try both. If you do more as DW who cares? Then DW till your hearts content.

  9. #49
    That info is dated before they figured out how to make BT work for DW frost. DW is technically higher, if you use BT properly.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by zadtrp View Post
    Well I'm not going to keep throwing this dead horse back and forth. If your able to keep your uptime and clean rotation in a raid 2H will be better. (Single Target) There are a number of places to look and see this. For example.

    http://www.icy-veins.com/frost-death...-pve-dps-guide

    The two-handed playstyle currently performs considerably better than the dual-wielding one.

    There are many other sites and addons that confirm/prove/beat the dead horse repeatedly on this.

    But for argument sake this is just my opinion. The only way to prove it to yourself is to get out there and try both. If you do more as DW who cares? Then DW till your hearts content.
    Never understood why this site is so popular when it's fairly crap (atleast when it comes to Death Knights). The only reason they state that 2h is better then DW is cause they are not optimizing the DW specc, and have the rotation wrong. The only reason chaps in this thread do more DPS as 2h compared to DW is probably cause they follow that guide and hence doing it wrong, making 2h look like the stronger specc. You can argue all you want, but this tier is full of cleaving and there is actually only one boss in the entire tier that's single target DPS (Blade lord, which even there, melee loose a lot of DPS uptime cause of constant moving, while DW can spam HB).

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  11. #51
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zadtrp View Post
    But for argument sake this is just my opinion. The only way to prove it to yourself is to get out there and try both. If you do more as DW who cares? Then DW till your hearts content.
    Schizoide and Kapaya pretty much said what I was going to - but just for this comment, please tell me you're not serious? You're saying because a person can play better at one way that it is better? Good logic... I can play better as a MM Hunter because I refuse to play BM, therefore MM is the top DPS spec.

    Yeah, uh... No.

    Multiple fights have adds, cleave or movement/target switching (in which you can still do a lot of your damage as DW with HB), which alone make DW better (need I point you to Garalon just to exaggerate my point?). DW also does better on single-target Patchwerk fights, just go look at the logs and Sims if you need to, just stop spouting misinformation. 2H is fine, but it certainly isn't "Considerably better".

  12. #52
    I would actually argue that 2H frost is severely disadvantaged when compared to DW. That's why I generally suggest adding Obliterate to Frost's mastery and dropping its base damage to compensate, so both DW and 2H reforge to mastery and 2H's AE/cleave/mobile performance ends up closer to DW's.

    Mastery: Frozen Heart
    Increases your Obliterate and all Frost damage by [mastery]%.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Never understood why this site is so popular when it's fairly crap (atleast when it comes to Death Knights). The only reason they state that 2h is better then DW is cause they are not optimizing the DW specc, and have the rotation wrong. The only reason chaps in this thread do more DPS as 2h compared to DW is probably cause they follow that guide and hence doing it wrong, making 2h look like the stronger specc. You can argue all you want, but this tier is full of cleaving and there is actually only one boss in the entire tier that's single target DPS (Blade lord, which even there, melee loose a lot of DPS uptime cause of constant moving, while DW can spam HB).

    WTB PTR so I can enjoy my free Gary + SSJ 5 Timmy together!
    Well I would argue a little more Single Target exists. Granted some fights have very short moments of cleaves but nothing staggering. Feng, Garaj, Kings, Elegon, Emperor, Vizier, Blade Lord, all have more single target time then cleave time. On garalon at 487 il I can pull 120k dps as 2H, would I be doing so much more as DW?

    That being said I'm not so obtuse to continue to think I'm right. If DW really is the better way to go I'd like to ask for help to understand what I'm doing wrong.

    Does this EJ thread cover the DW rotation better? And if I have a better 2H that 1h will that for sure make 2h better?

    http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t130617-...eath/#Priority

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by zadtrp View Post
    On garalon at 487 il I can pull 120k dps as 2H, would I be doing so much more as DW?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/..._Death_Knight/

    Yes, you would.

  15. #55
    Stood in the Fire Mongler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Never understood why this site is so popular when it's fairly crap (atleast when it comes to Death Knights). The only reason they state that 2h is better then DW is cause they are not optimizing the DW specc, and have the rotation wrong. The only reason chaps in this thread do more DPS as 2h compared to DW is probably cause they follow that guide and hence doing it wrong, making 2h look like the stronger specc. You can argue all you want, but this tier is full of cleaving and there is actually only one boss in the entire tier that's single target DPS (Blade lord, which even there, melee loose a lot of DPS uptime cause of constant moving, while DW can spam HB).

    WTB PTR so I can enjoy my free Gary + SSJ 5 Timmy together!

    Speaking of which, I just recently switched to DW Frost, and since Icy Veins is crap in that department (kind of already knew that honestly), can anyone tell me the exact rotation included with BT? No site that I've found has been good about this.
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  16. #56
    BT if stacks > 10 and RP > 76 or RP < 20 and KM
    KM FS
    FS if RP > 88
    Outbreak if diseases not up or UB if diseases not up
    Soul Reaper
    BT is SR is unusable
    Diseases via HB/PS
    Rime
    FS if RP > 76
    Oblit if 2 UH runes
    HB if double rune F or D runes
    HoW
    oblit if UH rune > 1 and its usable
    BT if nothing else to do
    DND
    FS if rp > 40
    ERW

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong about DW vs. 2h (I just recently made the switch and so far so good) But I had to ROFL at this - you posted that link to prove that DW is better and that at 487 he would be doing better as DW?

    First US player listed Danoman -
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Danoman/simple = A 492 equipped, Legendary wielding 2h player

    Second US player listed Ellianne -
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...llianne/simple = A 497 equipped, Heroic Starshatter wielding 2h player...... What is wrong with this picture? lol. Sorry had too.

  18. #58
    Um... Ellianne is DW... Are you sure she wasn't in tank gear? If you look at the logs you'll see that. Also look at any of her other parses, they're all DW.

    For 2 targets (nearly 100% on garalon) DW will always win out if you play it correctly.
    Last edited by kaelleria; 2012-12-27 at 01:58 PM.

  19. #59
    DW just annoys me.

    You're either spamming frost strike or spamming howling blast. I really wish blizzard would make the rotation satisfying. While I'm playing DW DK because it fits the concept I want to play, the rotation is probably the least satisfying one I've ever played...ever.

    Combine that with the fact that every single strike has the same animation getting spammed over and over and over again, and the fact that howling blast sheethes your OH weapon, DW just seems like a severe oversight. Like virtually no thought was put into it.

  20. #60
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    I'm a 2h player... I likely always will be simply because I'm not at the pinnacle of raiding excellence. I do 2ish raids a week and we haven't even started heroics yet. If I were trying to push the maximum DPS then i'd go DW because it's just well known that single target DPS is on-par and any fight that involves a cleave will see DW pull ahead, but with DW you need twice as many valor points to upgrade the damn things -.-

    I also like being able to swap between Unholy and Frost when i feel like it (I prefer unholy's play style).

    2H does fine, just like unholy does fine. Neither will do as good as DW when you have people pushing the specs to their optimal limit but "meh" am never going to be the best geared DK so am not looking for top 10 ranks. On the flip side if you're DW and have a 2hander you can have a blood offspec without reforging for 5mans and soloing stuff :-D
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