Thread: 2H vs DW

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  1. #1

    2H vs DW

    Making the switch from playing a Blood DK to Frost. Have been looking up some top Frost DK's and have noticed that it's kinda mixed between 2H and Dual-Weild. Are they both performing the same at the moment or is one better than the other?

  2. #2
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Dual Wield is better currently. Higher single-target, but only slightly, and a LOT better on Cleave/AoE/movement.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Dual Wield is better currently. Higher single-target, but only slightly, and a LOT better on Cleave/AoE/movement.
    This. I wouldn't advise anyone, however, to ever play DW Frost in its current iteration because the Howling Blast spamming it includes will slowly kill your brain altogether.

    Don't listen to this freak, he didn't know any better when he wrote it.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2012-12-24 at 09:45 PM.
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  4. #4
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    This. I wouldn't advise anyone, however, to ever play DW Frost in its current iteration because the Howling Blast spamming it includes will slowly kill your brain altogether.
    I'll have you know it takes great skill and concentration to play Dual Wield!







    But yeah, Vereesà is correct; it can be quite tedious after a while. At least it's 2H doesn't button mash so much.

  5. #5
    The Patient Lachez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    But yeah, Vereesà is correct; it can be quite tedious after a while. At least it's 2H doesn't button mash so much.
    ^ This is why I play 2h. Im just praying my next weapon upgrade isn't a one hander, which, knowing the LFR gods, it will be. DW is okay, and certainly a blast on Wind Lord, but I just feel so weird spamming HB over almost everything else. It just doesn't feel right. That and when I use an oblit I cry at its low damage. For an attack that is literally called Obliterate, it hits like a wet noodle.
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    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Dual Wield is better currently. Higher single-target, but only slightly, and a LOT better on Cleave/AoE/movement.
    About single target I won't fully agree on that. I know you said slightly but 2H can still pull as much or more, depends all on RNG yes, but avg they're very even single target.

    That's at least my own experience.

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  7. #7
    I mean I get that a Frost Death Knight is supposed to be about dealing Frost damage to enemies, but spamming an AoE spell (as a melee class?) on single-target encounters especially considering Blizzard has said in the past they want to rid the game of spells akin to Howling Blast that deal supplementary AoE damage during a single-target rotation. That's why they revamped Whirlwind for Warriors.

    I just wish they'd come up with something different that would work for DW, but still be enough to differentiate the two playstyles of Frost.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    I mean I get that a Frost Death Knight is supposed to be about dealing Frost damage to enemies, but spamming an AoE spell (as a melee class?) on single-target encounters especially considering Blizzard has said in the past they want to rid the game of spells akin to Howling Blast that deal supplementary AoE damage during a single-target rotation. That's why they revamped Whirlwind for Warriors.

    I just wish they'd come up with something different that would work for DW, but still be enough to differentiate the two playstyles of Frost.
    Spamming Icy Touch like back in the gold old Sigil of Icy Touch days in WotLK? :P
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Spamming Icy Touch like back in the gold old Sigil of Icy Touch days in WotLK? :P
    Didn't personally start playing my DK until after that (in 3.2), but I can't imagine that or 0/32/39 being any more exciting than current DW is.
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    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    I mean I get that a Frost Death Knight is supposed to be about dealing Frost damage to enemies, but spamming an AoE spell (as a melee class?) on single-target encounters especially considering Blizzard has said in the past they want to rid the game of spells akin to Howling Blast that deal supplementary AoE damage during a single-target rotation. That's why they revamped Whirlwind for Warriors.

    I just wish they'd come up with something different that would work for DW, but still be enough to differentiate the two playstyles of Frost.
    They'll need to remake dks if they did that, it would kill DW frost completely and make 2H pretty weak.

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    They'll need to remake dks if they did that, it would kill DW frost completely and make 2H pretty weak.
    I'm not implying they should remove Howling Blast, but they should definitely take steps to further DW's dependency on it for single-target as a primary ability. (this is wherein the biggest part of the problem lies) It's perfect for 2H; use it for AoE and use it for when Rime procs.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2012-12-22 at 09:26 PM.
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    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    I'm not implying they should remove Howling Blast, but they should definitely take steps to further DW's dependency on it for single-target as a primary ability. (this is wherein the biggest part of the problem lies) It's perfect for 2H; use it for AoE and use it for when Rime procs.
    Make it based on mainhand weapon damage maybe or just scale less with mastery.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    They'll need to remake dks if they did that, it would kill DW frost completely and make 2H pretty weak.
    Not really.

    The biggest problem with dw frost right now is that you get to aoe and single target at the same time without making any real sacrifices in either. Howling blast is our best option in both cases so there is no decision to be made, and we already use dnd on single targets.

    The easiest way to fix this is to make us not want to use howling blast on single targets. For example, icy touch damage could be buffed.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2012-12-22 at 09:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    About single target I won't fully agree on that. I know you said slightly but 2H can still pull as much or more, depends all on RNG yes, but avg they're very even single target.

    That's at least my own experience.
    Yup, RNG can make you pull ahead, but 2H is extremely close behind on average in sims. Really should play what you prefer though tbh. The only reason I stay DW is because of DW's cleave, where 2H just doesn't compete.

    I would like a rework of HB, or at least a different ability for single-target. I'd like my main ability to NOT be splash/aoe, or at the very least avoid CCd targets. Even Spirit Kings is annoying I basically have to stop DPS (or rather, pool a bit of RP before) so I don't put FF on everyone. :/

  15. #15
    Speaking of 2H AoE and Howling Blast. For 2H if im on a boss fight like Wind Lord when all the adds are up should I even use Obliterate and waste a Frost Rune? Or should I use ALL Frost Runes on HB and when capped on runic power use Frost Strike to dump it?

  16. #16
    Just spend all your frost runes on howling blast and all your unholy runes on plague strike or dnd.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyballz View Post
    Speaking of 2H AoE and Howling Blast. For 2H if im on a boss fight like Wind Lord when all the adds are up should I even use Obliterate and waste a Frost Rune? Or should I use ALL Frost Runes on HB and when capped on runic power use Frost Strike to dump it?
    If your DnD is on CD then yes, you should Obliterate to make use of the Unholy rune.
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  18. #18
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Yup, RNG can make you pull ahead, but 2H is extremely close behind on average in sims. Really should play what you prefer though tbh. The only reason I stay DW is because of DW's cleave, where 2H just doesn't compete.

    I would like a rework of HB, or at least a different ability for single-target. I'd like my main ability to NOT be splash/aoe, or at the very least avoid CCd targets. Even Spirit Kings is annoying I basically have to stop DPS (or rather, pool a bit of RP before) so I don't put FF on everyone. :/
    I use icy touch on Lei Shi to apply frost fever to not break the CC, isn't really a problem.

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  19. #19
    High Overlord Lamperouqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    This. I wouldn't advise anyone, however, to ever play DW Frost in its current iteration because the Howling Blast spamming it includes will slowly kill your brain altogether.
    You only think that way because you have that impression in your head. If you had no clue about anything and played DW you wouldn't find it much different than Unholy; HB=SS OB=FeS FS=DC KM=SD then you're left with Rime and DT which are a bit different. Both use BT as their rune resource which requires more attention than RE and both specs utilize PL which is also requires a bit more attention than UB. I think you're a bit biased.

    Personally, after we went from RE to BT I've started to enjoy the DW playstyle more. At first it was just something I had to play since I couldn't pass on the design flaw of HB to play something I wouldn't perform as well with, but now that sitting an unholy rune is gone it feels more natural and BT as a rune resource is a lot more fun than RE to me. RE is a very random feast or famine type of rune resource, as opposed to BT which is on demand and stackable up to 2.4 runes total which makes AMS soaks more worthwhile.

  20. #20
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    I use icy touch on Lei Shi to apply frost fever to not break the CC, isn't really a problem.
    Compared to HB, IT does hardly any damage though, so you're having to lose DPS (talking about DW here) because you can't use your main ability. It's just annoying really. It's like Rets were back in Wrath when Divine Storm was in their single-target rotation, or even Fury Warriors with their Whirlwind.

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