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  1. #81
    Maybe we are looking at it from the wrong overall performance.

    Bear with me here. Lets eliminate the top 10% of the logs. It's an area that covers a very small percentage of the overall player base. How do we compare in the say 50-90% field. Are we consistently 20% lower regaurdless of iLvL or are we closer to other classes. I know there always has to be someone at the bottom and the top. And I can only hope that overall they would try to keep all DPS to within 5%. If we are uniformly off the pack top to bottom then I will agree we need some increase, but I am willing to wait and see.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowheals View Post
    Maybe we are looking at it from the wrong overall performance.

    Bear with me here. Lets eliminate the top 10% of the logs. It's an area that covers a very small percentage of the overall player base. How do we compare in the say 50-90% field. Are we consistently 20% lower regaurdless of iLvL or are we closer to other classes. I know there always has to be someone at the bottom and the top. And I can only hope that overall they would try to keep all DPS to within 5%. If we are uniformly off the pack top to bottom then I will agree we need some increase, but I am willing to wait and see.
    All in all i think logs are irrelevant, the top places could be manupulative, and the 50-90% is also irrelevant since those doesn't cover the skilled playerbase.

    Although, simulationcrafts seems to go hand in hand with logs. Like locks, mages is far on the top (mages was before 5.1 atleast) on both sims and logs. Numbers don't lie it's that simple.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by actiwe View Post
    We also have to keep in my mind that the further into the expansion we get our gear will not scale as good as other classes making us falling even more behind. Our resource system is limited, will stay the same through the entire exp. While locks for instance will get more shard proccs at other haste plateus, aswell more ticks from dots.
    this guy nailed it pretty much, yes shadow priest shines on some fights but its the terrible scaling of this spriest makes me a bit worried. need some sort of shadow or regeneration or even AA cd back to spriest
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    You keep saying that BS even spread it on the lock forum, but you need to prove it or else your just a fool
    Im sorry aren't logs proof enough...? Are you blind? Today SP deals about 15-20% less damage then a Lock on single target fight, we all agree that 1 ilvl is approx. 1% dps(a little more actually). So basically, 15ilvl lower for a lock would correspond to a SP's dps of the same ilvl. Maths, they hurt my head!
    And if you want my logs I'll happily give them to you during the week(if I actually get picked for raiding). Won't bother with LFR as nearly every fight is dependent on the people in your lfr(+ im too lazy to wait half an hour for something this absurd).
    Last edited by Falsified; 2013-01-02 at 06:26 AM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by actiwe View Post
    the 50-90% is also irrelevant since those doesn't cover the skilled player base.
    Kind of the point I was getting at. When balancing the whole spec they have to look at "All" priests, from the absolute best to the absolute worst in PvE and PvP and strike a balance. Maybe boosting something at Heroic progression levels in full Tier BiS gear will make lower iLvL gear to overpowered. I don't know all the math involved. We could even be going around with the whole discussion and they may feel we are exactly where we should be in their opinion.

  6. #86
    The Patient Nymie's Avatar
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    We used to scale ridiculously with gear; once we were in heroic gear our dps shot through the roof. While we are not in that position any more, I don't think we can immediately say that we are going to suck last tiers of MOP. Blizz always changes stuff around (i.e. we sucked in pre-ToC, got buffed and rocked rest of Wrath) so we have no idea if they will change something with us, and there are classes that are worse off than us scale-wise so it may even out somewhat. Plus, look at the fights- we can still top some while not topping others and we have no idea how many single target versus multi-target or gimmicky buff related fights there may be. That being said, I am definitely not happy with the spec and it feels dull and rather pointless in many fights and I do hate relying on gimmicks (Elegon, Spiritbinder). It also sucks when so many shadowpriests are going warlock (i.e. Nykaz in BL went lock). I hope we do get some of our former glory back.

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  7. #87
    ...and yet, top 100 guilds are still bringing S-Priests for their first, second, and third kills...not just farm nights.

    Stop worshiping the meter gods and play your best.

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    ...and yet, top 100 guilds are still bringing S-Priests for their first, second, and third kills...not just farm nights.

    Stop worshiping the meter gods and play your best.
    for fights with adds, yes. generally not what most of the PVE spriest complaints are about.

  9. #89
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Spriests are above a lot of classes right now. Just because 2-3 classes can beat us, doesn't mean we need a buff. It means those classes that are able to do so much more than us, probably need a small nerf.

  10. #90
    You are looking at the wrong logs. We are not behind 2-3 class, 2-3 specs is whats behind us(at least on single target fights).

  11. #91
    easiest way to buff shadow and not effect pvp

    MIND FLAY.

    play around with mind flays numbers!

    I Dare say scaling shadow word death to increase shadow dmg during execute would effect pvp that much either.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by stickyjam View Post
    easiest way to buff shadow and not effect pvp

    MIND FLAY.

    play around with mind flays numbers!

    I Dare say scaling shadow word death to increase shadow dmg during execute would effect pvp that much either.
    That is 100% incorrect. You can not buff mf with out devaluing FDCL. How people don't understand this is beyond me. If you make MFs GCD worth more. If you do this, MB will almost always be a better choice. Sw:d going back to giving two orbs would be a very nice change tho.
    Last edited by Drye; 2013-01-05 at 03:04 AM.

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  13. #93
    SWD should not be in two gcd, doesn't make any sense really;S Also halo/swd, hit way harder in holy spec due to the 50% increase damage.
    What's making me laugh is to see holy dps scale way better then SP, if they left everything as it is now, i'm pretty sure SP is gone by the end of next tier and holy is our main spec dps(at least on single target & maybe light movement fights only).

  14. #94
    Without a complete reworking of our mechanics(which will not come mid expansion), I think the best we can hope for is a small single target buff. The issue is how to do this without having to much effect on multiple target encounters and more to the point pvp(where we will need a nerf come 5.2). It seems to me the answer lies in Power Infusion as it is not really used at the moment. I can not recommend any numbers of course, but if it gave some sort of baseline bonus aswell as its current effect then it would give us a talent on that row to actually use on patchwerk fights.

  15. #95
    omg.... it's not a matter of world of logs. It's a matter of our own XP. In my raid, I used to top the recount on Cata, because I mastered my class and spec and that allowed me to use a Shadow Priest 6th gear. That 6th gear doesn't exist anymore and there's no way I can even dks, locks, on a single target fight right now. And please... don't tell me about your XP raiding the LFR or the first MV bosses... That's ridiculous!!! At 480 ilvl we don't perform that bad. But once you and your raid reach about 490 ilvl equipped gear, the higher the ILVL the worse is your dps compared to the others'.
    Last edited by Eldarc; 2013-01-07 at 07:49 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    omg.... it's not a matter of world of logs. It's a matter of our own XP. In my raid, I used to top the recount on Cata, because I mastered my class and spec and that allowed me to use a Shadow Priest 6th gear. That 6th gear doesn't exist anymore and there's no way I can even dks, locks, on a single target fight right now. And please... don't tell me about your XP raiding the LFR or the first MV bosses... That's ridiculous!!! At 480 ilvl we don't perform that bad. But once you and your raid reach about 490 ilvl equipped gear, the higher the ILVL the worse is your dps compared to the others'.
    Soo much this. IT realy gets worse and worse, i'm at 501 now, as is the median of th rest of the raid. I'm not a bad priest, i considder myself to be a rather good one. But i'm falling more behind on dps as we get better gear, my dmg goes up ofc, but the others dps just goes up soo much more. Frankly my 489 alt lock pulls more single target dps.

  17. #97
    Simulationcraft calculates dps on patchwerk fights without interrupts and then the difference is max 30k dps (compared to arcane mages). You also need both players to be of equal skill and have equal gear. How often does this happen? I have yet to see a patchwerk fight in MoP. There is always movement or adds and when there are adds shadow priest dps goes up tremendously.

    If you look at realistic dps the charts change a lot. The difference then becomes 19k dps between shadow priest (#22) and arcane mage (#1). If you are outdpsed by every class by 20k on single target you are indeed doing something wrong.

    I think people forgot that you are raiding as a team and not everyone needs to be doing exactly the same dps on every single fight. There is also no thing like perfect balance, someone has to do the lowest dps.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Simulationcraft calculates dps on patchwerk fights without interrupts and then the difference is max 30k dps (compared to arcane mages). You also need both players to be of equal skill and have equal gear. How often does this happen? I have yet to see a patchwerk fight in MoP. There is always movement or adds and when there are adds shadow priest dps goes up tremendously.

    If you look at realistic dps the charts change a lot. The difference then becomes 19k dps between shadow priest (#22) and arcane mage (#1). If you are outdpsed by every class by 20k on single target you are indeed doing something wrong.

    Again, I don't look at WoL nor SimCrafts. I look at my own recount. My raid mates were doing slightly less dps than me in Cata, or the same. Now those players are owning me at every single fight, but 2 or 3 bosses with multiple targets like Emperor, where I do not shine, I'm just one more.

    I think people forgot that you are raiding as a team and not everyone needs to be doing exactly the same dps on every single fight. There is also no thing like perfect balance, someone has to do the lowest dps.
    Sorry, but are you trolling? Do you think 20k dps isn't that much??? Or even 30k???? If an Arcane Mage does 100k that means we're doing a 20-30% dps less than him. Seriously...

    In Cata, a Shadow Priest was reasonably doing low dps on single target fights and then doing reasonably high dps on multiple targets fight. Now we SUCK at single target fights and we do the same dps than the other classes on multiple target fights.

  19. #99
    He quoted noxxics, with 496 gear. We care about scaling an a real bis list. So yeah, being out dpsed by 30% is fairly large.

  20. #100
    Meter padders, unite!

    As a healer, utility that certain classes bring is extremely important. Halo is a strong raid heal (in 25s anyway), as is divine star. Vampiric embrace helps heal through burst. If you have enough of those burst-healing type abilities, you can drop a healer and bring another dps. And a lot of healers love external mana regen CD's. 12% mana and it can be made to give more (%based regen during the %mana buff, for example). Regardless, I'm pretty sure my guild has pretty good players (we're 16/16H anyway) and our spriests are generally upper-echelon (top 5-8) or middle of the pack, while bringing strong utility and high personal survivability. Could you use a damage buff? Sure...but you're pretty balanced as far as I can see, and bring utility that healers love. (One of four dps spec's which brings a strong off-healing CD, but you also bring high offhealing outside of that CD with halo/divine star, as well as extra mana for healers. Also high personal survivability. Quite possibly the strongest raid utility from a healing standpoint.)

    As for scaling I can't necessarily comment on that since I don't theorycraft SPriests, so if thats borked, which it could be, then I agree a fix is in order. But as for your potential DPS this tier, I'm under the impression that you're fine.

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