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  1. #81
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    You seem to forget the wars in Bosnia, Croatia, and Slovenia during the 1990s.
    Let me just quote yourself: "The state collapsed as a result of its revolution into pieces which own their own are democratic but are frequently engaged in conflicts with other members." I fail to see how a war in the 1990s amounts to frequent on-going engagements.

    Also, the fall of communism was a series of revolutions. I seriously fail to see how the communist revolutions and the American revolution fail to pass this definition of revolution. Or this.
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2012-12-25 at 11:00 AM.

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post
    So.... what law is being broken? He's not doing anything illegal. Israeli laws are being followed. UN mandates are not laws and have no bearing.
    It is illegal even in Israeli law as far as I know but that hasn't stopped him.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    It only starts looking like Irak if the US try to continue controlling it. Otherwise it will just be another partially corrupt country.
    As soon as Assad is deposed, the armed resistance groups that were united by their beef with Assad are going to turn on each other. They're not going to make it as far as an election. And the idea that the US wouldn't try to gain influence in the new Syria is ludicrous, they don't fight wars out of humanitarian reasons.

  4. #84
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Except they didn't help Iraqi people. They invaded Iraq on the basis of them detaining WMD, which they did not. They had little support in the people, and with the corruption the country is as bad as it was before, only now it's corruption where before it was dictatorship. It's a Cuba of Batista now.

    On the contrary, in Syria, there's already a support against the regime. There's people fighting the regime. And thousands have died. So going here is out of a humanitarian cause. If you can't see the difference...
    The problem with "helping" Iraq was, that whether we like it or not, without the judgement of Saddam's character and actions, he was a stabilizer for the region.
    Before Saddam the tribes fought each other tooth to nail, killing each other over little to nothing. They couldn't get along, they never have, and never will.
    Saddam crushed that kind of civil war. He restored some sort of peace, by ruling over everything with his regime, treating all tribes equally.
    We may not like his actions, we may certainly disapprove of his methods. Yet, that's what his achievements been.
    Since his removal the region became a lot more unstable.
    The sooner we learn that we cannot put our moral and lifestyle stamp onto the entire region, the sooner we have the right mindset to work with those people, and to achieve true stability, if that's ever possible at all.

    As for Netanyahu, sorry to say this, but this man needs to get his head out of his own ass.
    Israel has no exclusive claim to Jerusalem. Period... No matter how someone want's to twist it.
    He claims the city belongs to Israel for 3000 years.. This claim is based on nothing but religious scripture. Yet used as a fact. By religious scripture however it is also a fact that both sides of the conflict are siblings. Both, Israelites and Muslim (Islam as religion came much much later) are children of Abraham.
    Religion aside for that matter, up until 600 BC, all ethnic groups that can't get along now, lived there united and in peace as one.
    His views are unacceptable, and bear zero logic.
    If they had any logic, should we start all over again in Europe and Asia? Should we raise wars against each other, because after all, several nations have an older claim?
    How about Italy rises, and wants to reclaim the Roman Empire?
    How about the Mongols step up and want to rebuild the biggest empire ever existed, by re-establishing Genghis Khans empire? And the list goes on....
    But watch out Israel.... you better hope you won't get what you are asking for. You certainly don't want to go through a rise of the powers responsible for the Crusades.
    if you really have to live by the scriptures, then do it consequently and remember your all's father....

  5. #85
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    The problem with "helping" Iraq was, that whether we like it or not, without the judgement of Saddam's character and actions, he was a stabilizer for the region.
    Before Saddam the tribes fought each other tooth to nail, killing each other over little to nothing. They couldn't get along, they never have, and never will.
    Saddam crushed that kind of civil war. He restored some sort of peace, by ruling over everything with his regime, treating all tribes equally.
    We may not like his actions, we may certainly disapprove of his methods. Yet, that's what his achievements been.
    Since his removal the region became a lot more unstable.
    The sooner we learn that we cannot put our moral and lifestyle stamp onto the entire region, the sooner we have the right mindset to work with those people, and to achieve true stability, if that's ever possible at all.

    As for Netanyahu, sorry to say this, but this man needs to get his head out of his own ass.
    Israel has no exclusive claim to Jerusalem. Period... No matter how someone want's to twist it.
    He claims the city belongs to Israel for 3000 years.. This claim is based on nothing but religious scripture. Yet used as a fact. By religious scripture however it is also a fact that both sides of the conflict are siblings. Both, Israelites and Muslim (Islam as religion came much much later) are children of Abraham.
    Religion aside for that matter, up until 600 BC, all ethnic groups that can't get along now, lived there united and in peace as one.
    His views are unacceptable, and bear zero logic.
    If they had any logic, should we start all over again in Europe and Asia? Should we raise wars against each other, because after all, several nations have an older claim?
    How about Italy rises, and wants to reclaim the Roman Empire?
    How about the Mongols step up and want to rebuild the biggest empire ever existed, by re-establishing Genghis Khans empire? And the list goes on....
    But watch out Israel.... you better hope you won't get what you are asking for. You certainly don't want to go through a rise of the powers responsible for the Crusades.
    if you really have to live by the scriptures, then do it consequently and remember your all's father....
    That is the core of the issue, at least regarding Jerusalem.
    Alot of zionists actually are firm believers they are entitled to it all and without questioning.
    The exact same thing can be said about many palestinians and definately Hamas.

    So I guess it just make what has been obvious for decades even more obvious.
    Netanyahu is an extremist, a religious zealot that the world would be way better without, especially the middle east region.
    Wish I could celebrate his demise soon.
    The best thing about Kremlin posters is that as soon as you voice something they have to mention the US.
    Their awe and love for the US is truly great and I commend them for their love of their fellow men.

  6. #86
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    That is the core of the issue, at least regarding Jerusalem.
    Alot of zionists actually are firm believers they are entitled to it all and without questioning.
    The exact same thing can be said about many palestinians and definately Hamas.

    So I guess it just make what has been obvious for decades even more obvious.
    Netanyahu is an extremist, a religious zealot that the world would be way better without, especially the middle east region.
    Wish I could celebrate his demise soon.
    Agreed... It's up to the Israeli people to kick him out of office. But Israel is no different to all our other countries.
    It's not easy to restraint and kick right wing powers from office. Somehow they always manage to get that majority for some time, until the people are fed up with them enough again. Meanwhile they can be as destructive to true and peaceful progress as it gets.
    Doesn't really matter where. It's the same everywhere.

  7. #87
    I am Murloc! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I'd like to see Israel turned into a parking lot.


    Infracted.
    Me 2, no love for rogue states.


    Infracted.
    Last edited by Majad; 2012-12-26 at 10:41 AM.
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Agreed... It's up to the Israeli people to kick him out of office. But Israel is no different to all our other countries.
    But it is sort of different. Israel's parliamentary system is designed in such a way that minority extremist parties wield disproportionate political power, because they are virtually guaraunteed to be the kingmakers to a ruling coalition, since power is so diluted across different major parties. It's actually a pretty good case in point for cautioning against the risk of fragmentation in proportional representation.

    Unlike First Past the Post like say the United States in which minority parties might as well not exist, or even the United Kingdom where power is still sufficiently consolidated. Under these systems, major parties have to build broad, compromising platforms to appeal to a whole spectrum of the electorate, or they won't win power. As the Republicans found out this year.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Agreed... It's up to the Israeli people to kick him out of office. But Israel is no different to all our other countries.
    It's not easy to restraint and kick right wing powers from office. Somehow they always manage to get that majority for some time, until the people are fed up with them enough again. Meanwhile they can be as destructive to true and peaceful progress as it gets.
    Doesn't really matter where. It's the same everywhere.
    People here are not fond of him nor of several of his policies, but the alternative is far worse (Left wing, which have absurd economic policies similar to greece/spain prior to the crisis, and appeasement which is totally unacceptable, we saw how far pulling out of gaza got us).

  10. #90
    Merry Xmas from Bibi!!

    Just announced even more settlements today.

  11. #91
    Bloodsail Admiral bayushisan's Avatar
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    I've kept silent on a number of these anti-Israel threads because I can't bring up certain subjects but this is just ridiculous. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Its been the capital of Israel since King David conquered it and its always going to be the capital of Israel. Saying that the Israelis can't build in their own capital is just asinine. The Palestinians have no legitimate claim to Jerusalem and they never will.
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  12. #92
    Epic! Tokru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    I've kept silent on a number of these anti-Israel threads because I can't bring up certain subjects but this is just ridiculous. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Its been the capital of Israel since King David conquered it and its always going to be the capital of Israel. Saying that the Israelis can't build in their own capital is just asinine. The Palestinians have no legitimate claim to Jerusalem and they never will.
    Except those ~2000 years were it was under control of several other groups and Israel not even existed.

  13. #93
    I am Murloc! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    I've kept silent on a number of these anti-Israel threads because I can't bring up certain subjects but this is just ridiculous. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Its been the capital of Israel since King David conquered it and its always going to be the capital of Israel. Saying that the Israelis can't build in their own capital is just asinine. The Palestinians have no legitimate claim to Jerusalem and they never will.
    Nonsense, that's like if europeans claimed Africa would belong to them, cuz you know all humans lived there ONCE. (ONCE!)
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  14. #94
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    I've kept silent on a number of these anti-Israel threads because I can't bring up certain subjects but this is just ridiculous. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Its been the capital of Israel since King David conquered it and its always going to be the capital of Israel. Saying that the Israelis can't build in their own capital is just asinine. The Palestinians have no legitimate claim to Jerusalem and they never will.

    The fact remains, the israeli people were absent from Palestine for almost 2000 years. But allow me this question. If tomorrow the people whom the Israeli destroyed when they conquered Israel originally (can't spell their names, phoenicians?) came back tomorrow and said Palestine is theirs, would you, as an Israeli, move? They've been there before you by the same logic you're using.

    And for those living in USA who might not understand this, if the native americans, the indians, if they went today and said "american people, most of you are not native-americans, so fuck off since we were here first" would you move? And I'm not telling like them taking 3 houses, but in them trying to retake 90% of the territory they had before the british, the spanish and the french came. Heck, in the end, their territory has only been occupied for like what, 400 years? So much less then the 2000 the israeli people base their claims on.

    The palestinians have as much claim to Jerusalem as you do. Why? Because now, in the present, they live there too. The same way albanians had a claim with Kosovo even though it had been the birth region of Serbia. Why? Because now albanian people live there.

  15. #95
    Dreadlord Ripox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zallex View Post
    ... they are just about the ONLY nation in the middle east that isn't burning European/American flags and wanting "death to the west".

    Also why in the hell would anyone except radical muslims want palestine to have an independent state???? The last thing we need is another government helping terrorists.
    Wow, talk about confused, misinformed, and ignorant. There is no nation in the middle east burning flags of anything. The only ones doing so are not even nations, but groups of stupid extremists who, on their own retarded will, do so. Do you have any idea whatsoever about nations in the middle east? Lol Qatar, for one, is quite an ally of the USA. Do you think the UAE, KSA, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait are just sitting all day burning flags of America? Lmfao. I also love how you didnt even get infracted for that.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Zallex View Post
    Why all the hate on Israel??? they are just about the ONLY nation in the middle east that isn't burning European/American flags and wanting "death to the west".

    Also why in the hell would anyone except radical muslims want palestine to have an independent state???? The last thing we need is another government helping terrorists.
    If they burned American flags they'd stop getting $8.2 MILLION a DAY in aid from the US, plus lose the only friend they have in the UN.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-25 at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    I support Israeli expansion and don't believe international "law" saying settlement activity should be stopped has any jurisdiction whatsoever. Go Israel! The way I figure it, the more anti-semites Israel pisses off the better.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 10:14 PM ----------

    The open and unabashed anti-semitism on this website is really eye-opening. Hitler would be proud of some of the things said here.
    There's a huge difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism. You should probably learn what it is before you keep trying to build that strawman.
    Last edited by Priestiality; 2012-12-26 at 12:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  17. #97
    I think the Israeli PM is being a little bit overzealous, but I think the Country does belong to them. This type of attitude on BOTH sides is the reason why the area will never have peace. Until all "big egos" can stop bickering and being so hateful, nothing can be solved or done for the better.

    Both sides are biased. And, both sides are at fault.
    Evil is apart of all things, an essential energy of vile corruption. Evil manifests where Good thrives. You cannot have order without chaos. Nor, chaos without order.


  18. #98
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feardotwin View Post
    I think the Israeli PM is being a little bit overzealous, but I think the Country does belong to them. This type of attitude on BOTH sides is the reason why the area will never have peace. Until all "big egos" can stop bickering and being so hateful, nothing can be solved or done for the better.

    Both sides are biased. And, both sides are at fault.
    Who are "them" and how does it belong to "them"?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Feardotwin View Post
    I think the Israeli PM is being a little bit overzealous, but I think the Country does belong to them. This type of attitude on BOTH sides
    You mean the type of attitude where you use some ancient myths to claim "the country does belong to" you, because you said so in your own myths?

  20. #100
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    I support Israeli expansion and don't believe international "law" saying settlement activity should be stopped has any jurisdiction whatsoever.
    International laws and conventions consider Palestine as contested territory, thus not falling under the jurisdiction of Israel. It is both illegal and amoral for Israel to impose this colonization on the Palestinians.

    I don't get it. What's the long-term plan here ? Does Israel claim the whole of Palestine ? Why haven't they properly annexed it then ? If they're going to destroy the two people two nations solution, do they even realize they're going to have these two people living together in the same state ? The only alternative is genocide.
    Israel has been a stain on the East-West relations for far too long if you ask me.

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