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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    There's a huge difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism. You should probably learn what it is before you keep trying to build that strawman.
    Of course there is a difference:
    Both mean the same, but one is politically correct, and the other isn't.

    Seeing the Islamic propaganda at work, sometimes makes me ashamed of being an Arab and not being braindead.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 02:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    International laws and conventions consider Palestine as contested territory, thus not falling under the jurisdiction of Israel. It is both illegal and amoral for Israel to impose this colonization on the Palestinians.

    I don't get it. What's the long-term plan here ? Does Israel claim the whole of Palestine ? Why haven't they properly annexed it then ? If they're going to destroy the two people two nations solution, do they even realize they're going to have these two people living together in the same state ? The only alternative is genocide.
    Israel has been a stain on the East-West relations for far too long if you ask me.
    Oh yay, the only democratic place in the whole middle east is a stain on the east-west relations!
    Of course, because nothing is easier than dealing with dictators, sultans, sheiks and ayatollahs. Who needs an elected prime minister when you can just talk with an extremist religious leader instead?

  2. #102
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Oh yay, the only democratic place in the whole middle east is a stain on the east-west relations!
    Of course, because nothing is easier than dealing with dictators, sultans, sheiks and ayatollahs. Who needs an elected prime minister when you can just talk with an extremist religious leader instead?
    I think you place too much value in the inherent good of Democracy; it is the Tyranny of the Majority after all, and let's not forget that Hitler was voted for, time and time again.

    As to the matter at hand, the Palestinians will once again no doubt be told to suck it up at the threat/behest of another battering from the world's most advanced/expensive military equipment, courtesy of the USA.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  3. #103
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    I don't get it. What's the long-term plan here ? Does Israel claim the whole of Palestine ? Why haven't they properly annexed it then ? If they're going to destroy the two people two nations solution, do they even realize they're going to have these two people living together in the same state ? The only alternative is genocide.
    Israel wants it all. they were hoping that making things so intolerable for the palestinians they will go away. now that a massive oil and gas field has been found off the coast of gaza they will have no intentions of letting the gazans stay there or pay them their fair share for the oil and gas. the recogntion of Palestine has no doubt caused the israeli plan to be advanced faster than was intended.

  4. #104
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Oh yay, the only democratic place in the whole middle east is a stain on the east-west relations!
    Of course, because nothing is easier than dealing with dictators, sultans, sheiks and ayatollahs. Who needs an elected prime minister when you can just talk with an extremist religious leader instead?
    Do you have any idea why these people get our support ? Because we're afraid. We're afraid of the djihadist groups who could or would take over in these regions. And the one reason they have so much credit is because there is an "infidel" state oppressing muslims, right where 800 years ago our ancestors did the same thing.

    And your so-called democracy is denying the rights of millions of Palestinians. How is further colonization going to help the peace process in any way ?

  5. #105
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Of course there is a difference:
    Both mean the same, but one is politically correct, and the other isn't.

    Seeing the Islamic propaganda at work, sometimes makes me ashamed of being an Arab and not being braindead.
    Well it seems that you are also brain dead if you truly believe that both are the same but I won't blame you since you're living in Israel it must be such a pain in the ass to listen to Israeli propaganda 24/7 and still be able to recognise the difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Oh yay, the only democratic place in the whole middle east is a stain on the east-west relations!
    Of course, because nothing is easier than dealing with dictators, sultans, sheiks and ayatollahs. Who needs an elected prime minister when you can just talk with an extremist religious leader instead?
    What does being democratic have to do with anything? I can count many democratically elected nutjobs in the last century or so (Netanyahu being one of them).

    Infracted: Please refrain from insulting other people.
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2012-12-26 at 05:20 PM.

  6. #106
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    My undead grandad is going to assassinate him for the King David Hotel Irgun bombing.

    True story.

  7. #107
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    I don't get it. What's the long-term plan here ? .
    They're trying to impose bad conditions so that palestinians move to other countries on their own because life is better there.

  8. #108
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Its been the capital of Israel since King David conquered it and its always going to be the capital of Israel.
    that is plain and simple wrong.....

    Let's have a little look, and with our look we for now accept the Bible and the Torah as valid source:
    According to the Bible, before the united monarchy, the Israelite tribes lived as a confederation under ad hoc charismatic leaders called Judges. In around 1020 BCE, under extreme threat from foreign peoples, the tribes united to form the first united Kingdom of Israel. Samuel anointed Saul from the tribe of Benjamin as the first king c. 1026 BCE, but it was David who in c. 1009–1000 BCE created a strong unified Israelite monarchy.

    David, the second (or third, if Ish-bosheth is counted) King of Israel, established Jerusalem as its national capital 3,000 years ago.
    David succeeded in truly unifying the Israelite tribes, and set up a monarchical government. He embarked on successful military campaigns against Israel's enemies, and defeated nearby regional entities such as the Philistines, thus creating secure borders for Israel. Under David, Israel grew into a regional power. Under the House of David, the united Kingdom of Israel achieved prosperity and superiority over its neighbours.

    Under David's successor, Solomon, the United Monarchy experienced a period of peace and prosperity, and cultural development. Much public building took place, including the First Temple in Jerusalem.

    And now it comes..........
    However, on the succession of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, in c. 930 BCE the country split into two kingdoms:
    Israel (including the cities of Shechem and Samaria) in the north
    and Judah (containing Jerusalem) in the south. Most of the non-Israelite provinces fell away.

    Saying that the Israelis can't build in their own capital is just asinine. The Palestinians have no legitimate claim to Jerusalem and they never will.
    You don't have to build your own capital as in Jerusalem, it's been built over 3000 years ago, BEFORE David named it capital. It already existed.. And because of that, using the very sources Israel today uses to claim their right, Palestinians have the same right. Because they lived there just as much.
    In fact... All religious sources aside, and plain historically speaking... Israel and Palestine have the very same rights, because it's both their territory.

    By your logic..... How about the Apache kick everyone out of the USA then? I believe they are the oldest culture, the oldest nation in North America, some 20.000 years old.. There were 90 million people living in the Americas before Columbus and the Europeans ever set foot on that part of the planet. It's their land, isn't it by your logic?
    There weren't much less already when the Vikings landed 500 years before Columbus.

    No one on this planet of us claims anything today which was once theirs some several thousand years ago, as exclusively theirs.

    One out of 10 is a direct descent of the very first humans from Africa.
    One out of 200 is a direct descent from Genghis Khan.

    SO yeah... we all are going out there now and claim whats ours...

  9. #109
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    What is a "legitimate claim" to a plot of land?

  10. #110
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    What is a "legitimate claim" to a plot of land?
    I think something you legally possess, and have legal proof of. Then it's yours even if it's taken away from you by any illegal means. In terms of land. Anything you have registered with the applicable authorities.

    Israel's extremists logic makes for example the USA the legitimate owner of the Moon.
    They were there first, they've planted the flag up there, hence they have the legitimate right to claim the stake.. lol

  11. #111
    Field Marshal Dre4m's Avatar
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    It's so clear who the aggressors really are. Eventho I would rather see Fatwa at power in Palestine, hamas has actually made efforts towards peace whereas the state of Israel has not.

  12. #112
    I don't really understand why there are soo many discussion about israel and palestine, after soo many year it's clears that the core of the problem are both religious extremists that push both countries against each other, you cannot talk with those peoples and convince them that this crap need to be solved cuz they think their actions are blessed by God.
    Look carefully at what is happening in the whole zone, the majority of the peoples are extremist or really like to live under extremist govs, Egypt have kicked out Mubarak and so what? An islamic extremist party as taken the lead with the majority of the peoples voting for them and now they have the sharia in the costitution law again voted by the 60%+; look who are the rebels that are trying to kick Assad out in syria, again alot of extremist are there, i'm pretty sure that if they succeded Syria will become Egypt 2.0; Palestine is the same, once they become a state Hamas and other ultra islamic parties will take the lead for sure.
    On the other hand even israel is the same, ultra jew extremists are pushing the state into a perpetual state of war, israel in many way is more similar to an arab country than a western one.
    There is no way to solve the whole mess until the peoples there decide that it's time to put the religions in their place, inside Temples, Mosques, Churchs etc. and clear their govs from those zealots, is that possible? I don't think so, those peoples hold the money, the oil and many other thing to the point that countries like Usa, China, Russia and Europe are willing to close both eyes on what is going on for the sake of their economics interest.

  13. #113
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    You summed it up. That's kind of how it is.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Dre4m View Post
    It's so clear who the aggressors really are. Eventho I would rather see Fatwa at power in Palestine, hamas has actually made efforts towards peace whereas the state of Israel has not.
    Hamas' charter calls for war with Israel and murder of Jews. It's so heinous they are regarded as a terrorist group because of it. They are patently anti-peace, it sounds like you're just regurgitating liberal antisemitic propaganda, and not actually thinking.
    What the world needs is Lesshammad.

  15. #115
    You cant have peace with terrorists like hamas who dont want peace, they want domination, not peace. Their idea of peace is conforming to their beliefs, there is no middle ground.

    Hamas also like to build wep depo's under schools so they can play the victim.

  16. #116
    Honestly, outside of Dubai...the Middle East is a stain on the Earth. Israel is the diamond in the rough of those lands. I am all for them.

  17. #117
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    A state who's very foundation is based on terrorism denies the rights of the people it stole the land from by calling them terrorists. Terrorists who only exist due to the recognised grievances and mistreatment done to them by the people calling them terrorists. We're they terrorists prior to a bunch of European zionists arriving and driving them off their land? No ofc they weren't.

    Israel calls Hamas anti peace and kills the main Hamas peace negotiator on the run up to israeli elections. In. The process killing and injuring various civilians in the vicinity. But that's ok according to the Israelis as Hamas are terrorists.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    A state who's very foundation is based on terrorism denies the rights of the people it stole the land from by calling them terrorists. Terrorists who only exist due to the recognised grievances and mistreatment done to them by the people calling them terrorists. We're they terrorists prior to a bunch of European zionists arriving and driving them off their land? No ofc they weren't.

    Israel calls Hamas anti peace and kills the main Hamas peace negotiator on the run up to israeli elections. In. The process killing and injuring various civilians in the vicinity. But that's ok according to the Israelis as Hamas are terrorists.
    Im still sticking with the places that dont treat women like slaves and live like the rest of modern society. You cant really expect a nation in a war on terror and trying to spread democracy to side with the people that go against both.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    should really reword it as Israelis rather than blame a whole religious group.
    Actually you should word it as the government rather than blame a whole state...

    I live in Israel, I hate his actions towards Palestinians just as much as you do, and I do want him to negotiate with them, but apparently he can't, so I wait for the next elections to choose a new PM.

  20. #120
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Im still sticking with the places that dont treat women like slaves and live like the rest of modern society. You cant really expect a nation in a war on terror and trying to spread democracy to side with the people that go against both.
    So Palestinians treat their women like slaves? Don't live in a democracy? War on terror? War of conquest you mean. Israel tries to spread democracy does it? How by reacting so badly to democratic elections that it blockades and terrorises when it doesn't like the results. You really don't know much about the situation bar what you hear on fox news do you.

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