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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draganid View Post
    one of these days iran is going to nuke the shit out of these guys.
    i dont think iran is that suicidal.

  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zallex View Post
    Why all the hate on Israel??? they are just about the ONLY nation in the middle east that isn't burning European/American flags and wanting "death to the west".

    Also why in the hell would anyone except radical muslims want palestine to have an independent state???? The last thing we need is another government helping terrorists.
    instead of just reacting, have you ever stopped to wonder why theres so much hate directed at the USA? do you just put it down to crazy people? it wasnt always like this.

    i mean do you really not get it? http://truththeory.com/2012/09/16/th...an-occupation/
    Last edited by soulcrusher; 2012-12-23 at 11:30 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    instead of just reacting, have you ever stopped to wonder why theres so much hate directed at the USA? do you just put it down to crazy people? it wasnt always like this.

    i mean do you really not get it? http://truththeory.com/2012/09/16/th...an-occupation/
    Maybe we just don't care soulcrusher.

    Honestly though isreal is the only liberal democracy within a thousand miles in that part of the world, I will support them over islamicfacist states anyday.

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    Because "helping" Iraq made them so popular with the Arabs, right?
    Except they didn't help Iraqi people. They invaded Iraq on the basis of them detaining WMD, which they did not. They had little support in the people, and with the corruption the country is as bad as it was before, only now it's corruption where before it was dictatorship. It's a Cuba of Batista now.

    On the contrary, in Syria, there's already a support against the regime. There's people fighting the regime. And thousands have died. So going here is out of a humanitarian cause. If you can't see the difference...

  5. #45
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Maybe we just don't care soulcrusher.

    Honestly though isreal is the only liberal democracy within a thousand miles in that part of the world, I will support them over islamicfacist states anyday.
    First of all, you're relying on the assumption that not supporting Israel means you're automatically supporting all of the Islamic states in the area, which is simply wrong, and second, what is a liberal democracy worth when it still acts like a rogue state? Does being a democracy give it a right to not act in accordance with international law and to commit crimes? By the way, Palestine is a democracy too, as much as Israel.

  6. #46
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zallex View Post
    Why all the hate on Israel??? they are just about the ONLY nation in the middle east that isn't burning European/American flags and wanting "death to the west".

    Also why in the hell would anyone except radical muslims want palestine to have an independent state???? The last thing we need is another government helping terrorists.
    The irony of this is that Israel started as a group of terrorists literately bombing British building in that area but never mind that for a second. Why the hell wouldn't anyone except irrationals deny a simple right which is being recognised as a country because of some media stereotypes.

    Anyway, how many of these middle eastern countries is actively being supported by western countries that sell weapons to them, turn blind eye to their unethical abuses of human rights? The answer is too fucking many. Never mind that, how many of Muslims want the "west dead"? There are about 2 billion Muslims in the world and I'd wager that there is less than 10 million extremists (which is a gross exaggeration just to prove a point, there are far less than that). That gives you about 0.5% extremists of the total Muslim population.

    Your blind hatred for anyone that Muslim is disgusting and you justifying that it is okay to not recognise them as a country because they're apparently Muslim "extremists" is even more disgusting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 02:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    i dont think iran is that suicidal.
    Anyone who thinks that Iran is going to attack anyone any time soon is seriously messed up in the head considering the fact that they haven't attacked anyone since the current government took control.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 02:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    First of all, you're relying on the assumption that not supporting Israel means you're automatically supporting all of the Islamic states in the area, which is simply wrong, and second, what is a liberal democracy worth when it still acts like a rogue state? Does being a democracy give it a right to not act in accordance with international law and to commit crimes? By the way, Palestine is a democracy too, as much as Israel.
    Well because having a democratically elected governor means that they will only do good... oh wait

  7. #47
    Well Bibi has to appease the settlers to prevent an Israeli civil war.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Welcome to the power of major jewish businesses and WW2 guilt tripping.
    Not entirely fair.
    Far from all Jews are Zionists. In fact, a lot of Zionists are Christians. Though it's equally true that far from all Christians are Zionists.
    One could say that Zionists are the small, but powerful, minority that ruins it for everybody.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    *snip*
    And I fully support him. Abbas lost all credibility with me when he decided to circumvent the negotiations, given that, why the hell should the Israelis accept any preconditions? Either both sides play by the same rules or its a free-for-all.

    and I dont give two shits about the location of Embassies, a sovereign nation can chose to move their seat of government to any location they control as they bloody see fit.

    Truth told, Jerusalem should be an independent city, and NO ONE'S capital.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  10. #50
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Except they didn't help Iraqi people. They invaded Iraq on the basis of them detaining WMD, which they did not. They had little support in the people, and with the corruption the country is as bad as it was before, only now it's corruption where before it was dictatorship. It's a Cuba of Batista now.

    On the contrary, in Syria, there's already a support against the regime. There's people fighting the regime. And thousands have died. So going here is out of a humanitarian cause. If you can't see the difference...
    It may be a 'humanitarian' cause, but that doesn't mean we should get involved. The simple reason that violent revolutions always end up in tyranny anyway, so we'd be drawn into a cycle of wasting money attempting to prop up the provisional government.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    And I fully support him. Abbas lost all credibility with me when he decided to circumvent the negotiations, given that, why the hell should the Israelis accept any preconditions? Either both sides play by the same rules or its a free-for-all.
    negotiations that have gone nowhere for years whilst the israelis chisel away at palestinian land, oppress its people and steal the gas and oil recently dsicovered off the coast of Gaza. unsurprisingly he went to the UN. israel holds all the cards what else could he do.

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It may be a 'humanitarian' cause, but that doesn't mean we should get involved. The simple reason that violent revolutions always end up in tyranny anyway, so we'd be drawn into a cycle of wasting money attempting to prop up the provisional government.
    Yugoslavia.

    You say violent revolutions ALWAYS end up in tyranny.
    Yugoslavia.
    Slovenia is a democracy and a member of the EU.
    Croatia is a democracy, and although a bit corrupt, soon a member of the EU.
    Macedonia is a democracy, and even if it has problems with name, still not a tyranny.
    Serbia... well they had their problems, but nowadays they're democratic too, they're just angry on Kosovo.
    Montenegro democratic and well.
    Bosnia and Hertzegovina, democratic, though corrupt to the core.
    Kosovo... well it's a new country and has some ethnic problems.


    Ok, not enough?
    Fall of communism.
    Romania, violent revolution, 1989, democratic member of EU.
    Albania, violent revolution, democratic country.
    Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia also had some violence, now democratic members of the EU.

    Let's go further back in time and in other parts of the world.
    USA, violent revolution against the UK, democratic country.

    Overall, you can't be more wrong. Violent revolutions only sometimes end in tyranny.

    And USA already supports tyrannic regimes, so even if Syria would turn into a tyranny, what's the difference for them, they already support Saudi Arabia. And many others.

  13. #53
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Yugoslavia.

    You say violent revolutions ALWAYS end up in tyranny.
    Yugoslavia.
    Slovenia is a democracy and a member of the EU.
    Croatia is a democracy, and although a bit corrupt, soon a member of the EU.
    Macedonia is a democracy, and even if it has problems with name, still not a tyranny.
    Serbia... well they had their problems, but nowadays they're democratic too, they're just angry on Kosovo.
    Montenegro democratic and well.
    Bosnia and Hertzegovina, democratic, though corrupt to the core.
    Kosovo... well it's a new country and has some ethnic problems.


    Ok, not enough?
    Fall of communism.
    Romania, violent revolution, 1989, democratic member of EU.
    Albania, violent revolution, democratic country.
    Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia also had some violence, now democratic members of the EU.

    Let's go further back in time and in other parts of the world.
    USA, violent revolution against the UK, democratic country.

    Overall, you can't be more wrong. Violent revolutions only sometimes end in tyranny.

    And USA already supports tyrannic regimes, so even if Syria would turn into a tyranny, what's the difference for them, they already support Saudi Arabia. And many others.
    Does Yugoslavia exist anymore? No. The state collapsed as a result of its revolution into pieces which own their own are democratic but are frequently engaged in conflicts with other members. Further incidences of states splitting up are not 'revolutions', they are wars of independence, which applies to the United States as well.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Except they didn't help Iraqi people. They invaded Iraq on the basis of them detaining WMD, which they did not. They had little support in the people, and with the corruption the country is as bad as it was before, only now it's corruption where before it was dictatorship. It's a Cuba of Batista now.

    On the contrary, in Syria, there's already a support against the regime. There's people fighting the regime. And thousands have died. So going here is out of a humanitarian cause. If you can't see the difference...
    The end result will most likely be the same, extreme infighting between the many disparate groups that make up the resistance movement now. Deposing Assad is the easy part, it's after that that it starts looking like Iraq.

  15. #55
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    The end result will most likely be the same, extreme infighting between the many disparate groups that make up the resistance movement now. Deposing Assad is the easy part, it's after that that it starts looking like Iraq.
    We can always give it back to France.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Maybe we just don't care soulcrusher.

    Honestly though isreal is the only liberal democracy within a thousand miles in that part of the world, I will support them over islamicfacist states anyday.
    Lebanon is fairly democratic nation. Religion plays part for sure, but it's demanded by law that the president shall be a Maronite Christian for example, so it's not really a islamicfacist nation by any stretch. A relativly modern country considering it's location. You can grab your coffee at starbucks, buy your gf underwear at VS, and your takeaway at KFC. ;P

    They also got massive refugee camps of course, which are quite run down but I think most people are ignorant of this country and just lump them together with whatever other "shithole" country they've seen on the news.

    Wouldn't mind going there for vacation, they got some amazing historical sights, the mediterranean coastline etc and it's no problem for at least europeans to go there.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  17. #57
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    they're bureaucrats fighting a dirty game against people that have nothing more than sticks and stones to throw at them. Disgusting.
    And, you know, thousands and thousands of rockets...

  18. #58
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joán View Post
    Worked out fairly well for George Washington...
    Not a revolution, despite what the vernacular chooses to call it.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Not a revolution, despite what the vernacular chooses to call it.
    Sorry, I deleted my post after reading that you defined that particular revolution as a "war of independence". I wasn't gonna get into it, but tomatoes and tomatoes I guess.

  20. #60
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joán View Post
    Sorry, I deleted my post after reading that you defined that particular revolution as a "war of independence". I wasn't gonna get into it, but tomatoes and tomatoes I guess.
    It's all good. History is funny that way; like the Hundred Year's War actually lasting for 116 years.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

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