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  1. #1

    Will newer shooters with depth uplift the genre?

    I've been dying to talk about this topic!

    Little backstory here, I grew up with Half-life and its various mods...Hell I was even on a mod team. Needless to say I played them all for years. Natural Selection was the one that impressed me most, Day of Defeat, Counterstrike etc etc. Fast forward!

    I have a brother who is 13 years younger than me. Saw him playing this game called "Call of Duty"... I figured hey they looks like Counterstrike/DoD whatever. HOLD UP, you just paid money for 4 maps?! Fast Forward!

    Someone bought me Call of Duty: Ghosts last Christmas. I gave it a shot, it's pretty fun, yadda yadda. I get that it's "pure", I imagine it sorta like Quake III. I always gave Call of Duty developers the stink-eye because I thought they were incapable of innovation. I had always thought that if Counterstrike did it years ago, why aren't things different? Once I started playing ghosts I learned the nasty truth.

    The players don't want it

    Infinity Ward has dumped so much development time into Extinction mode and few play it. Few people play anything but Team Deathmatch.

    So...Topic? Is this stuff cyclical? Will there always be a "pure" shooter or will the genre progress? Will games like Destiny bridge the gap between frat boys and nerds?
    Last edited by 87Octane; 2014-08-29 at 12:49 AM.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    The youths of this new generation don't have the appreciative capacity or patience to endure anything other than a quick, simplistic matchup about getting the most headshots or kills, usually in the form of TDM. This isn't how the genre is moving forward; what your seeing is one of many cases of mainstream developers giving in and catering to the masses, rather than moving their game forward with a specific vision.
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  3. #3
    High Overlord narzinor's Avatar
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    Hmmmm, well, personally I think that the genre can move forwards with depth, but asking Call of Duty players to change overnight is a bit counter productive. This is like asking a basketball player, while playing basketball, to suddenly play football. People aren't going to do that. You have to make a game that, from the onset, gives players that depth and shows them that depth is what they're getting themselves into. Extinction mode is a good way to test ideas and take feedback, but I don't see it going anywhere unless you make a game based entirely on it.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention, that Destiny is a game that is trying to do just this, and has mostly positive press and reviews alike. So it's not just possible, but is happening currently.
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  4. #4
    I had always put some of the blame on the stagnation of the previous console gen. There was limited avenues really. I had always hoped something like "Tribes" would catch on.

  5. #5
    look at indies and titles like dishonored and dayZ for innovation k cool. also kids aren't to blame, cut that shit out. you were young, dumb and impatient too.
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  6. #6
    Moderator Sj's Avatar
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    They found a formula that works. I mean, the reason tons of people play CoD is because they want to play team deathmatch, not because they want to play CoD. It's basically the reason most MOBAs/ARTSs use basically the same map layout with the same playstyles and same shop setup. When you find a good recipe, there's no real reason to change it if people really like it.

    I wouldn't chalk it up to "kids," personally.

  7. #7
    Also there's always the possibility that the genre gets "swallowed" because the only thing that defines a shooter is..well..solid shooting..and pvp generally. There is an increasingly large amount of games being release that have solid shooting, but don't purely rely on it.

  8. #8
    Moderator aiko-chan's Avatar
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    No.

    FPS games with depth exist, though with faint heartbeats, in games like Counter-Strike:GO but this kind of gameplay is just not popular anymore. 5v5, slow approaches, tactics etc bore people nowadays.
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    The Lightbringer Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    Perhaps, may I suggest Red Orchestra and ARMA as two examples of deep, intricate pieces of the FPS genre?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Metzen
    "As you can see the age of the whimsical panda sadly, is over."
    Amen!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian Stormclaw View Post
    Perhaps, may I suggest Red Orchestra and ARMA as two examples of deep, intricate pieces of the FPS genre?
    Right, but if it ain't on console it ain't gonna matter. High end PC gaming is pretty niche nowadays.

  11. #11
    I for one can't stand CoD. The little I play major shooters, it is mostly restricted to Battlefield and now Titanfall.

    I for one am still waiting on an honest to god well made Unreal Tournament game. UT had all these game modes, Death Match, Assault etc and most of them were played.
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  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
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    shooters today are in the state they were when arena shooters were everywhere. I grew up playing the living shit out of counter strike, Quake 3 Arena etc. I would hope future shooters incorporate varying elements from other genres. I'm a big bioshock fan so I'm biased to suggesting more RPG styles of game play. more refined obviously, like putting Bioshock gameplay into a game like borderlands, without the mundane questing.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    shooters today are in the state they were when arena shooters were everywhere. I grew up playing the living shit out of counter strike, Quake 3 Arena etc. I would hope future shooters incorporate varying elements from other genres. I'm a big bioshock fan so I'm biased to suggesting more RPG styles of game play. more refined obviously, if they put Bioshock gameplay into a game like borderlands, without the mundane questing.
    I feel like RPG-shooters are gaining ground for sure. Im more curious if it's an evolution of the shooter genre, or just a separate path because consoles are able to handle more these days.

  14. #14
    I'm an older gamer myself and honestly I'm starting to actually appreciate things like Call of Duty. Well, not CoD exactly but things like CoD that are just competitive games without the huge story open world super innovative horsepuckey. I feel like the problem with CoD specifically is that new CoDs are released so frequently that older CoDs never really get the time to get sorted out competitively.

    The games that I've played the most since '09 are Street Fighter 4 (and it's expansions if you want to call them that), Diablo 3/RoS, StarCraft 2, and Path of Exile. All of these are games where you can just play competitively until you get bored and the story is something that you play once and then never again. Mobas are extremely popular and there's no story there, the whole game is just competitive matchmaking.

    Looking at something that tried to be different, like Titanfall, it didn't work. People, for some reason, seem to not like the innovation that we claim that we want. Companies try it, and usually it doesn't work out so well. Then we screech at them when they release more of the same old thing.

    As weird as it sounds, I get the most for my money when I just buy a simple grinding game or competitive FPS game, or street fighter, or whatever. I can invest hundreds, or in the case of SF4 thousands of hours into those.

  15. #15
    Firefall was going for a cross between 'moba skill sets' and shooter game play.
    However, recently they've switched their focus away from skills toward just shooting.

    It's a shame because abilities added a lot of depth to game play.
    Now it just boils down to which class has the better primary gun.
    You can read more about it here, http://forums.firefallthegame.com/co...efall.4706521/

    For all its faults, Warframe has found a few ways to make some awesome RPG Shooter stuff happen. There's still some things where min/maxing breaks the game but for the most part it's pretty solid. They've made a lot of improvements over the past year.
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  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87Octane View Post
    I feel like RPG-shooters are gaining ground for sure. Im more curious if it's an evolution of the shooter genre, or just a separate path because consoles are able to handle more these days.
    with big names like mass effect, borderlands, and (maybe?) Destiny it sure seems so. but then we have CoD and it's Pokemon like ability to make money releasing the same shit every year. were still going to have CoD, and that's fine if other more innovative games keep coming out as well. nothing I have seen seems to push the envelope in a meaningful way. I'm still looking forward to sunset overdrive though.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    with big names like mass effect, borderlands, and (maybe?) Destiny it sure seems so. but then we have CoD and it's Pokemon like ability to make money releasing the same shit every year. were still going to have CoD, and that's fine if other more innovative games keep coming out as well. nothing I have seen seems to push the envelope in a meaningful way. I'm still looking forward to sunset overdrive though.
    Hey now. Pokemon is pretty innovative compared to the CoD series.

    Doubles, tower, new types, swarms, online cities, ect.
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  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    Hey now. Pokemon is pretty innovative compared to the CoD series.

    Doubles, tower, new types, swarms, online cities, ect.
    /shrug the core gameplay hasn't changed since it first came out. nothing wrong with that but lets keep it real here.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    /shrug the core gameplay hasn't changed since it first came out. nothing wrong with that but lets keep it real here.
    I am not saying it's revolutionary but it's certainly more so than CoD.
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  20. #20
    Epic! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Destiny surely add a layer of "diablo style looting+leveling" but if you want depth look somewhere else.

    They are a lot of hardcore FPS, just don't ask the big ones (aka COD, BD, Destiny). They all target the mass market who actually want fast paced games without too much difficulty nor depth. That's also why F2P are so huge right now, LoL, Hearthstone and others being amazing exemple.

    Gaming is pretty much like movies : you'll always find something you can enjoy. Some can find pleasure on a random blockbuster (which is fine, no judgment I like them too) other may search a little more.

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