1. #1

    [WW] Lvl 30 healing talents a nice new filler skill ?

    So now theirs no cost to Zen Sphere Chi Burst and Chi Wave whats going to be the best filler spell for you?. It looks like you can put both zen spheres on your self so for AoE and/or passive healing making Sphere the best there. Chi Burst will have a 30sec CD and probably be the best cleave/bust AE maybe even single target if chi waves bounce is to slow/spread.

  2. #2
    Chi Wave will be the obvious single-target ability.

    Chi Burst/Zen Sphere are both AoE, but Zen Sphere takes a LOT of GCDs to use to its potential, whereas Chi Burst will pack all of it into one every 30 seconds. I'm leaning towards CB being better for cleave/AoE.

  3. #3
    On live, I prefer Zen Sphere simply because it's a relatively strong HoT that I don't have to worry about. It really helps on anything with lots of damage going out. (Elegon) But with the changes coming, I'll be switching to Chi Wave. Burst is just too weak on a single boss and it's not my job to heal the raid so taking time to strategically aim a Chi Burst as a DPS is a tad unreasonable to ask of anyone.

    Also, according to my results just now, if Chi Wave hit an enemy four times out of seven, and you doubled the damage, it would be much better than Blackout Kick. If it's "free" (still costs a GCD), then it's probably worth using on cooldown during periods of tank-only damage. At least I think so.
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  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    It'll still be worth using on cooldown regardless of its damage compared to BoK for the simple reason that BoK itself isn't on a cooldown.

    If you have 2 Chi, it doesn't matter if you BoK now or in 2 seconds time - it's still the same result.

    So basically as long as you're not gonna energy cap if you don't spend whatever Chi you have fast, or RSK is available, or you wanna squeeze one more BoK into the tail end of TEB/trinket, using Chi Wave on cooldown will be a rather nice damage/healing boost.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Chi Wave will be the obvious single-target ability.

    Chi Burst/Zen Sphere are both AoE, but Zen Sphere takes a LOT of GCDs to use to its potential, whereas Chi Burst will pack all of it into one every 30 seconds. I'm leaning towards CB being better for cleave/AoE.
    The current iteration has ZP only explode if the target drops below 35% health. There are no more "hit it a second time on current target to make explode". As such it is not really, by design, an AoE. It is rather a strong HoT with a RnG ish AoE burst heal/dmg component. With that said, it will also be less GCD consuming than it was for the AoE component. It will very likely become an encounter based pick between ZP/CB for the AoE component, highly in favor of CB.

    Hopefully it's just lack of tooltip info with regards to that you can use a second charge to bloom like old mechanics such that it becomes a highly versatile tank HoT with an on-demand (well 6s window) AoE component.
    Last edited by Deau; 2012-12-24 at 04:42 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    It'll still be worth using on cooldown regardless of its damage compared to BoK for the simple reason that BoK itself isn't on a cooldown.

    If you have 2 Chi, it doesn't matter if you BoK now or in 2 seconds time - it's still the same result.
    As of right now in live, you're unfortunately very wrong. If you used Chi Wave on cooldown throughout a typical raid boss fight it would add up to at least a few % DPS loss because you'd be delaying jabs or BoKs and over time it would add up. It'd be about the same as never using Tiger Palm.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Deau View Post
    The current iteration has ZP only explode if the target drops below 35% health. There are no more "hit it a second time on current target to make explode". As such it is not really, by design, an AoE. It is rather a strong HoT with a RnG ish AoE burst heal/dmg component. With that said, it will also be less GCD consuming than it was for the AoE component. It will very likely become an encounter based pick between ZP/CB for the AoE component, highly in favor of CB.
    Yes I know, but it still costs a GCD to put another up every time it gets blown up, which takes away from SCK time. As it stands, 1 Zen Sphere + explosion on a single target will outscale Chi Burst by around 30% of AP, of course that's still only half of Chi Wave. At 3 targets, the damage per cast (assuming a full 16 second ZS with explosion at the end) is tipped in Chi Burst's favor. At 6 targets, Chi Burst will do more damage once every 30 seconds than ZS can do if used 3 times with its 10 second cooldown. That's what I mean by too many GCDs for AoE.

    Also, I'm hoping that "dispelled" means "removed by any means", because if a single ZS gets through without its explosion, it's not even worth the GCD (for DPS, healing can have its own discussion in a different thread).

    Edit: @TheWindWalker, I'm pretty sure he meant because it has no cost. You would use it because you will still have the 2 Chi to use BoK later, something that you don't get on live.

  8. #8
    Soon as PTR is up will have to go check all 3 out but the real problem is this change will stop tigereye brew building pre pull :<<<

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Edit: @TheWindWalker, I'm pretty sure he meant because it has no cost. You would use it because you will still have the 2 Chi to use BoK later, something that you don't get on live.
    I wasn't very clear with my second sentence, but I meant that if it were free, you'd be delaying your rotation by a full second every time you used it. If you used it on cooldown, every 15 seconds(?), that's four seconds a minute. Twelve in three. Twenty-four in six. It would add up.

    EDIT: Okay, "debating" when you first wake up is apparently a bad thing. I just remembered my own post saying that at 2x damage, Chi Wave will beat BoK, anyway.
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  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    As of right now in live, you're unfortunately very wrong. If you used Chi Wave on cooldown throughout a typical raid boss fight it would add up to at least a few % DPS loss because you'd be delaying jabs or BoKs and over time it would add up. It'd be about the same as never using Tiger Palm.
    Only true in a situation where you were fully, totally GCD capped for the whole fight.

    With the new Chi Wave having a 15sec CD, that means it takes up only four GCDs a minute.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shappo View Post
    Soon as PTR is up will have to go check all 3 out but the real problem is this change will stop tigereye brew building pre pull :<<<
    Most annoying thing ever imo; having to spend minutes between each pull to build up a stack. I'll be glad it's gone.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Only true in a situation where you were fully, totally GCD capped for the whole fight.
    In a patchwerk fight, there's no reason to ever not be GCD capped, of course.
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  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    In a patchwerk fight, there's no reason to ever not be GCD capped, of course.
    As a Windwalker? Energy isn't infinite, you know. Are you telling me that you can run a six-minute static fight without ever having a free GCD?
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    As a Windwalker? Energy isn't infinite, you know. Are you telling me that you can run a six-minute static fight without ever having a free GCD?
    If you reforge and play perfectly (within the confines of a haste>crit build) then yes, you should never actually have downtime. No one really has a perfect run like that, but it's what you're suppose to be trying for unless you're going for the crit>haste build that specifically intends to have dry periods. When I first started raiding normal as Windwalker I had almost exactly 6000 haste and used Ascension. It wasn't until I reforged off some haste that I noticed I had this certain button I never pushed, Energizing Brew, because I never ran out and capped a whole lot too.
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  15. #15
    Whether or not you could just BoK a second later is irrelevant. BoK is a filler skill, and Chi Wave (in 5.2) will do more damage than BoK could, making it higher in the priority. Even if Chi Wave still cost 2 Chi we'd still hit it before BoK.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Whether or not you could just BoK a second later is irrelevant. BoK is a filler skill, and Chi Wave (in 5.2) will do more damage than BoK could, making it higher in the priority. Even if Chi Wave still cost 2 Chi we'd still hit it before BoK.
    I'm actually really glad they reversed their stance on having such high healing from the skill. (Sort of) This would be like if Healing Stream Totem also shot frostbolts. There's no reason not to use it on cooldown and the entire raid benefits from having your spec in their DPS list. At least a little more than before.
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  17. #17
    It's really not all that different from Halo, Vampiric Embrace, Ancestral Guidance, or any self-healing that classes have baked into their kit (GoSac, various self-healing glyphs, Second Wind). I mean, obviously the healing amount has to be tuned to not be OP in PvP and PvE, but its mere existence is by no means unbalanced.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    but its mere existence is by no means unbalanced.
    Well of course not. Ancestral Guidance gives upward of 180,000 HPS for 10 seconds every 3 minutes when used ideally. I'd be surprised if we even compared to that. Point is, as you've seen in the Raiding threads, since our offhealing was weaker than any other hybrid DPS, we couldn't even point at that as a saving grace and now we might.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa View Post
    Most annoying thing ever imo; having to spend minutes between each pull to build up a stack. I'll be glad it's gone.
    Ok, exactly what guild allows people to do this kind of stuff during progression. We get cranky enough with the run back in and of itself, let alone people afking out to build tiger brew
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