Subtlety rogue viability

[Mazius]

I'm not talking about pure single target like Garajal. I haven't really done that fine since I moved server. Last time I did it(3-4 weeks ago and much lesser gear) I was pulling that much.

110k is mediocre for Feng, incredibly high for spirit kings, awfully low for Elegon, very low for twin emps, very high for blade-lord, (HC's)
So which boss you were referring to?

Garajal a boss that has phasing issues as well as a buff that may benefit some specs better than others, hardly the best to compare. Feng would be the best..

Feng HC is not single target fight (in case you don't know it).
Garajal doesn't have any issues with phasing for melee, rogues staying on boss full time.

I would also imagine that in a raid team that has almost cleared tier 14 you don't exactly get the longest time to try new specs, so I would also imagine that your personal experience is small. Not to knock you down, thanks for your input.

I can play any spec on any boss in MSV HC (except spirit kings, i had responsibilities there as combat).

[theherecy]

Feng HC is not single target fight (in case you don't know it).
Garajal doesn't have any issues with phasing for melee, rogues staying on boss full time.

Let's not be patronising. I'm aware of feng HC. Sure you can call out the small number of adds in the shield phase but around that it's purely single target.

You seemed to completely brush off my point about the buff varying in garajal per spec. And the fact that it can completely vary how many adds you have to kill, sometimes I can go in and spend 29 seconds in there fending off the adds. Others I can laugh to myself and click the button for insta-DPS. It's not a good fight to compare, not to mention it requires you to log it, further messing with my theory.

[Mormolyce]

Sub was never "hard", just more complicated and frustrating at low gear levels (before about FL level gear in Cata, you didn't have enough Haste to maintain recup, rupture and SnD without something falling off). And it still has that shitty positional requirement. Plus it makes you burn Vanish for DPS (that always annoyed me). I haven't played it seriously in MoP though.

Checking simc puts it highest, both now and when you equip BIS, for sustained damage and I know it has better burst than mut.

Those sims are outdated, or to put it another way, wrong. Sub is behind Assass in the real world. The high variance you see in WoL is because just as you say nobody uses it.

Play it if you like, I don't think it's enormously behind or anything. But it can be a real PITA if the fight mechanics aren't cooperative.

[Mazius]

You seemed to completely brush off my point about the buff varying in garajal per spec. And the fact that it can completely vary how many adds you have to kill, sometimes I can go in and spend 29 seconds in there fending off the adds. Others I can laugh to myself and click the button for insta-DPS. It's not a good fight to compare, not to mention it requires you to log it, further messing with my theory.

You seem to not understand me, melee doesn't go anywhere from boss in 25HC, they don't destroy the totems, they don't go to spirit realm etc.
Garajal is perfect testing dummy, anyone who doesn't go for totems can log it aswell.

Let's not be patronising. I'm aware of feng HC. Sure you can call out the small number of adds in the shield phase but around that it's purely single target.

"Small"? Damage to adds is 10% of your damage there (with muti spec)

[theherecy]

Sub was never "hard", just more complicated and frustrating at low gear levels (before about FL level gear in Cata, you didn't have enough Haste to maintain recup, rupture and SnD without something falling off). And it still has that shitty positional requirement. Plus it makes you burn Vanish for DPS (that always annoyed me). I haven't played it seriously in MoP though.



Those sims are outdated, or to put it another way, wrong. Sub is behind Assass in the real world. The high variance you see in WoL is because just as you say nobody uses it.

Play it if you like, I don't think it's enormously behind or anything. But it can be a real PITA if the fight mechanics aren't cooperative.

Well they are based on 5.1 so unless there is anything I don't know they are up-to-date. Vanish is only used as a means to boost dps anyway, unless it's off for a raid mass ress.

I'm aware that sub wouldn't be far behind anyway, but so far no-one has shown me why. It's all been fairly inconclusive, now I'm aware simc is a tool and can have some problems (which work both ways), but it's based on solid theorycrafting and to date nothing has proven otherwise.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 03:09 AM ----------

You seem to not understand me, melee doesn't go anywhere from boss in 25HC, they don't destroy the totems, they don't go to spirit realm etc.
Garajal is perfect testing dummy, anyone who doesn't go for totems can log it aswell.

"Small"? Damage to adds is 10% of your damage there (with muti spec)

I'm glad you have the luxury of 25 man, we get about 4-5 adds which die very quickly. We also have no choice but to go into the spirit realm. I also can't just trust your judgement, your probably a good player noted by your strong progression, but you also probably don't have much time on subtlety.