Thread: Frost vs. UH

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  1. #41
    Bloodsail Admiral Muraza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealtek View Post
    Pretty much this. Open with Outbreak and go nuts. Frost offers big hits, procs and many GCDs of strikes.
    Shame you shouldn't be opening with outbreak.
    I think unholy will be much better this next tier, considering it scales really well as the tiers roll out.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Muraza View Post
    Shame you shouldn't be opening with outbreak.
    I think unholy will be much better this next tier, considering it scales really well as the tiers roll out.
    Unholy actually scales terribly, even less so than in the past now that Unholy Might is only 15%.

  3. #43
    And let's not forget weapon dmg scaling being so poor as UH compared to "pure" frost.

  4. #44
    Unholy actually scales just fine with strength and every secondary stat but crit. It scales terribly with weapon damage, roughly half as well as frost.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Unholy actually scales just fine with strength and every secondary stat but crit. It scales terribly with weapon damage, roughly half as well as frost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    just fine
    Key information right here. It scales somewhat okay with strength but not nearly as well as in the past like I mentioned above and certainly not amazingly like Muraza would have you believe. Add in the weapon damage factor and you've got yourself a spec that doesn't scale as well as most other specs and scales horribly badly compared to Frost. This is one of the crippling flaws Unholy has had to deal with since they changed ScS into a single rune ability.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2012-12-25 at 11:18 PM.

  6. #46
    Actually, DW frost and Unholy scale nearly identically with strength. Definitely not "amazing" compared to frost; actually slightly less. But nothing that would introduce gearing difficulties.

    On the other hand, Unholy scales less than half as well with weapon DPS. That is something that I believe should be fixed. Ideally by causing Death Coil to deal a percentage of weapon damage, but there are tons of other ways to fix it too, mostly involving moving damage from secondary attacks back into Scourge Strike.

    DW Frost T14H
    Strength: 3.87
    Weapon DPS (MH+OH): 9.13

    Unholy T14H
    Strength: 3.76
    Weapon DPS: 4.08
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-12-25 at 11:38 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Actually, DW frost and Unholy scale nearly identically with strength. Definitely not "amazing" compared to frost; actually slightly less. But nothing that would introduce gearing difficulties.

    On the other hand, Unholy scales less than half as well with weapon DPS. That is something that I believe should be fixed. Ideally by causing Death Coil to deal a percentage of weapon damage.

    DW Frost T14H
    Strength: 3.87
    Weapon DPS (MH+OH): 9.13

    Unholy T14H
    Strength: 3.76
    Weapon DPS: 4.08
    The main point I'm arguing here is the fact that Unholy's scaling overall will definitely not be its selling point next tier.

    Also, out of curiosity, where are these weights from?

  8. #48
    The Patient Ganaza's Avatar
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    They both SCALE SHIt comPARED TO OTHER CKASSES FUCK IM DRINK GN

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-12-26 at 12:28 AM.
    13/13HC

    #Acherus (storm.coldront.net) - Death Knight IRC

  9. #49
    Those results are from simcraft 510-8 at 10k iterations.

    Unholy scaling from strength and all secondary stats except crit is fine, and frost hates crit too so that's not a disadvantage compared to the alternative. Unholy weapon damage scaling is terrible.

  10. #50
    Generating scales takes forever, so here's Fury, Ret, Combat, and WW to compare to, just looking at their primary stat and weapon DPS. I wouldn't say that DW frost scales particularly poorly. Unholy does have a real problem with weapon DPS scaling, though.

    Again I'm not doing all the secondary stats because it just takes too long, and they do very much matter.

    Fury 2H T14H
    Strength: 2.85
    Weapon DPS: 10.54

    Ret T14H
    Strength: 3.76
    Weapon DPS: 6.41

    Combat T14H
    Agility: 4.15
    Weapon DPS: 9.20

    WW DW T14H
    Agility: 3.47
    Weapon DPS: 17.04 (not a typo)

    Monks are "special" since almost every attack takes their weapons into account. They work differently than other classes and were balanced with that in mind.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Unholy actually scales just fine with strength and every secondary stat but crit. It scales terribly with weapon damage, roughly half as well as frost.
    You mean mastery? Crit is great for unholy.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothulean1 View Post
    You mean mastery? Crit is great for unholy.
    Agreed. Think I can easily back this up with some WoL logs (heroic) where I reforged to +8k crit and ranked 1.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothulean1 View Post
    You mean mastery? Crit is great for unholy.
    Yeah, I was thinking back in Cata, and I didn't generate secondary stat weights because it takes forever.

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