Russian military presence in Syria poses challenge to US-led intervention

[xxf2dxx]

Protip: Rich is not a 'Murrican. I mean it is pretty obvious from this very thread, but hey, whatever strawman you need, right?

Not only is he not American, but I'm pretty sure he also works for the ministry of defense in the UK.

[Deleted]

I hate to get into this very silly debate about whether or not the Russian military is effective or not, but Kaiz, if Russia -isn't- in the business of terrorising citizens, why are they very directly supporting a government that has killed forty thousand of its citizens?

Again, as in my previous statement, I don't want the US to intervene, but I'm still going to ask this.

Let putin explain that to you in a video i linked two pages back.

[Deleted]

Actually the US spends more tax money on healthcare and education per person than any country in the world. It's just allocated poorly because they're all incompetent.

I just wanted to point that out.

Calling bullshit on this one, where are your facts?

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 04:52 PM ----------

I hate to get into this very silly debate about whether or not the Russian military is effective or not, but Kaiz, if Russia -isn't- in the business of terrorising citizens, why are they very directly supporting a government that has killed forty thousand of its citizens?

Again, as in my previous statement, I don't want the US to intervene, but I'm still going to ask this.

And US hasn't directly supported a government that was terrorising it's citizens?

[Deleted]

I hate to get into this very silly debate about whether or not the Russian military is effective or not, but Kaiz, if Russia -isn't- in the business of terrorising citizens, why are they very directly supporting a government that has killed forty thousand of its citizens?

Again, as in my previous statement, I don't want the US to intervene, but I'm still going to ask this.

Well, for one, they don't want the US to put a puppet government right next to their front door. Also, it's questionable who is the bad guy over there, both the government and the rebels are killing off and terrorising innocent people. In my opinion, as ridiculous as it sounds, Russia is taking defensive position(not saying they're right though).

[Deleted]

Georgia is a third world shit hole like somalia? are you the fucking clown here or what? and how in the fuck is this video biased at all, please prove your fucking points before you shit all over the internet with your fucking 'Murica attitude.

I know that the russian military isn't on par with USA's and i never said it was plus it doesn't need to because they're not warmongering morons and rather put that tax money on free citizen's healthcare and education instead of terrorising Iraqi's and afghans.

Also, i expected some more respect from you if these ''Clowns'' were your brothers in arms fighting terrorism, yet you keep shitting on russian pride like they're evil villians.

Stop telling lies, I never mentioned Somalia. Even so, yes, Georgia is equipped like a 3rd world country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia...rces#Equipment

Most of it is relics from the cold war, dating back to the 1970's. Other things are "Donated" from other countries, in other words things they do not want anymore.

Second, why would you assume I am American? Look at my Avatar, that givies you an idea of where I am from and what I do for a living.

Third, fighting terrorism? I Did not see any Russian forces In Afghanistan when I was last out there. Although they have a lot of experience there, their tactics do not match ours, we do not poison wells or gas villages to pacify them.

[Herecius]

Well, for one, they don't want the US to put a puppet government right next to their front door. Also, it's questionable who is the bad guy over there, both the government and the rebels are killing off and terrorising innocent people. In my opinion, as ridiculous as it sounds, Russia is taking defensive position(not saying they're right though).

Fair enough. I don't think Assad's government is in any way defensible, however, even if the rebels aren't exactly angels themselves. Its an ugly situations all around, and that's why I wouldn't want the US to intervene regardless.

And US hasn't directly supported a government that was terrorising it's citizens?

As if that somehow makes it ok for other countries to do it, don't deflect perfectly reasonable questions with silliness like that.

[Deleted]

Fair enough. I don't think Assad's government is in any way defensible, however, even if the rebels aren't exactly angels themselves. Its an ugly situations all around, and that's why I wouldn't want the US to intervene regardless.



As if that somehow makes it ok for other countries to do it, don't deflect perfectly reasonable questions with silliness like that.

Perfectly reasonable to also point out that the other side isn't a cindarella story either.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 05:02 PM ----------

Stop telling lies, I never mentioned Somalia. Even so, yes, Georgia is equipped like a 3rd world country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia...rces#Equipment

Most of it is relics from the cold war, dating back to the 1970's. Other things are "Donated" from other countries, in other words things they do not want anymore.

Second, why would you assume I am American? Look at my Avatar, that givies you an idea of where I am from and what I do for a living.

Third, fighting terrorism? I Did not see any Russian forces In Afghanistan when I was last out there. Although they have a lot of experience there, their tactics do not match ours, we do not poison wells or gas villages to pacify them.

You just blow up weddings and shoot civillians. Also he never called you an american.

[Deleted]

Stop telling lies, I never mentioned Somalia. Even so, yes, Georgia is equipped like a 3rd world country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia...rces#Equipment

Most of it is relics from the cold war, dating back to the 1970's. Other things are "Donated" from other countries, in other words things they do not want anymore.

Second, why would you assume I am American? Look at my Avatar, that givies you an idea of where I am from and what I do for a living.

Third, fighting terrorism? I Did not see any Russian forces In Afghanistan when I was last out there. Although they have a lot of experience there, their tactics do not match ours, we do not poison wells or gas villages to pacify them.

Then where the hell did you fight along with russian soldiers? Also, i'm sorry that i though you were a typical american redneck stereotype behind a keyboard, you have the attitude like one.

[Kasierith]

Beslan school: 10-20 Spetsnaz were killed, along with 334 Hostages.

They killed 334 hostages they were supposed to save, am I supposed to fear these guys when facing them in war?

Is there really a need to besmirch the efforts to avert such a national tragedy? Even with the horrible outcome, the attack at Beslan was on a completely and totally different level than, say, the recent shootings in Connecticut. Although, even with family in military careers, I find someone steadfastly defending the Russian military while ignoring its many faults a bit silly.

Edit: oh god, my 5,000th post... It has come, the dark times of a thousand posts of murloc has come! Woe is me...

[GreatOak]

Calling bullshit on this one, where are your facts?[COLOR="red"]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75851.html
http://articles.businessinsider.com/...-rate-spending

America spends way more than anyone else but only gets average outcomes. Healthcare and College education is very good in terms of quality though. Prices are just bloated, and our early education system is nothing to write home about.

[Deleted]

Then where the hell did you fight along with russian soldiers? Also, i'm sorry that i though you were a typical american redneck stereotype behind a keyboard, you have the attitude like one.

I never said I fought alongside them, I said I worked alongside them. Once again you are making shit up, I suggest you quote me next time in order to avoid any more mistakes.

[cFortyfive]

Lold. As if NATO was any better. Or even the UK or US for that matter.

Well that statement was certainly cringeworthy.

Well, for one, they don't want the US to put a puppet government right next to their front door. Also, it's questionable who is the bad guy over there, both the government and the rebels are killing off and terrorising innocent people. In my opinion, as ridiculous as it sounds, Russia is taking defensive position(not saying they're right though).

Well sadly enough this usually isn't emphasized enough. As soon as you talk about atrocities committed by the fundamentalist terrorists over there you are usually labeled as an Assad-apologist.

[Deleted]

Is there really a need to besmirch the efforts to avert such a national tragedy? Even with the horrible outcome, the attack at Beslan was on a completely and totally different level than, say, the recent shootings in Connecticut. Although, even with family in military careers, I find someone steadfastly defending the Russian military while ignoring its many faults a bit silly.

It is a tragedy, one that I wish could have been avoided. Nonetheless, it proves my point of how inept the Russian forces are, Spetznaz are touted to be the best they have to offer, instead they lose loads of troops and end up killing 300+ hostages. They used tanks, rockets and incendiary devices against a target full of school children, how anyone can keep defending them is beyond my comprehension.

[Deleted]

I always find it funny how these globabl politics discussions always end up like a chat over a table of Risk.

In my opinion, WW3 is very unlikely to ever happen, at least not in the way we imagine it might. Compared to 1000 or even 100 years ago, the world today is much more interconnected.
So much so infact that a large scale conflict is unlikely. Before WW2 or 1, countries were much less open to exchange, both cultural and economic. Today, you can easily talk about the emergence of a "world" culture, combining something from every corner of the Earth, and the amount of economic interdependence has also massively spiked.
I just don't see a large conventional war ever happening again on Earth. Who knows what the future holds though..

[Deleted]

Is there really a need to besmirch the efforts to avert such a national tragedy? Even with the horrible outcome, the attack at Beslan was on a completely and totally different level than, say, the recent shootings in Connecticut. Although, even with family in military careers, I find someone steadfastly defending the Russian military while ignoring its many faults a bit silly.

As i said the amount of tax money going into our military is nowhere near as much as the USA, but i refuse to believe that the military is patched together dirt.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 06:13 PM ----------

I never said I fought alongside them, I said I worked alongside them. Once again you are making shit up, I suggest you quote me next time in order to avoid any more mistakes.

Says you.

I'm sorry that i'm not top notched chippy like you.

[Herecius]

Well that statement was certainly cringeworthy.

That was somewhat my point. Trying to deflect any questions asking about the whole situation with 'well it's not like you guys and those guys aren't horrible giant assholes too!' is just idiotic.

Well sadly enough this usually isn't emphasized enough. As soon as you talk about atrocities committed by the fundamentalist terrorists over there you are usually labeled as an Assad-apologist.

I can understand the need to keep the status quo in Syria, since the rebel government is unlikely to be much better than Assad's, the problem is with civilians are pretty helplessly caught in the middle of it all. Like I said, it's a very ugly situation, and something that I really do not want to offer any opinion whatsoever on in terms of a potential solution, because frankly, I have nowhere near the sort of expertise or knowledge required to think of a solution for something so difficult.

[Kasierith]

It is a tragedy, one that I wish could have been avoided. Nonetheless, it proves my point of how inept the Russian forces are, Spetznaz are touted to be the best they have to offer, instead they lose loads of troops and end up killing 300+ hostages. They used tanks, rockets and incendiary devices against a target full of school children, how anyone can keep defending them is beyond my comprehension.

You've gotten your facts on the matter mixed up, although I'm on a mobile device so I can't elucidate my counterpoint until I'm on a system were I can provide links and such.

[Deleted]

As i said the amount of tax money going into our military is nowhere near as much as the USA, but i refuse to believe that the military is patched together dirt.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 06:13 PM ----------



Says you.

I'm sorry that i'm not top notched chippy like you.

What ever that means?

[Deleted]

That was somewhat my point. Trying to deflect any questions asking about the whole situation with 'well it's not like you guys and those guys aren't horrible giant assholes too!' is just idiotic.


I can understand the need to keep the status quo in Syria, since the rebel government is unlikely to be much better than Assad's, the problem is with civilians are pretty helplessly caught in the middle of it all. Like I said, it's a very ugly situation, and something that I really do not want to offer any opinion whatsoever on in terms of a potential solution, because frankly, I have nowhere near the sort of expertise or knowledge required to think of a solution for something so difficult.

Excepts when the whole point is to label the other side as assholes when your side is doing it is hypocritical. Also the whole statement was irrelevant in the first place and meant to sidetrack the argument.

[cFortyfive]

I can understand the need to keep the status quo in Syria, since the rebel government is unlikely to be much better than Assad's, the problem is with civilians are pretty helplessly caught in the middle of it all. Like I said, it's a very ugly situation, and something that I really do not want to offer any opinion whatsoever on in terms of a potential solution, because frankly, I have nowhere near the sort of expertise or knowledge required to think of a solution for something so difficult.

I can relate to that I wouldn't want to touch that problem either as I don't see any possibility for a positive outcome. I still feel though that siding with and directly supporting Islamic fundamentalism isn't the way to go.