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  1. #21
    High Overlord Zazzmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokru View Post
    Sounds interesting. Do you have any links for further reading at hand? ^^
    Their Twitter is the best place to track them: https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews . You'll need to scroll back to Monday of last week to begin the Anon vs. WBC firestorm.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Rommon64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    Can someone tell me why a newschannel is allowed to tell lies? I know there is a right of free speech, but to tell lies in a newschannel should have consequenses.
    They actually fought, and won a court case for their 'right' to lie.

    Edit:

    After looking up stuff on this, it wasn't so much 'the right to lie', as it was 'the right to not print the truth', which might sound the same, but is different enough for them to have won. Or at least, that's how I'm understanding it.
    Last edited by Rommon64; 2012-12-24 at 10:45 PM.
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  3. #23
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I don't think they're under any legal obligation to print reality. And ethics don't mean much when $$$ is involved.
    I'm all for free speech and stuff, but if your name is FoxNews you should be penalized if you tell fiction and say its news
    Unless the whole thing is a comedy show, but then should be called FoxComedyNews

  4. #24
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    Can someone tell me why a newschannel is allowed to tell lies? I know there is a right of free speech, but to tell lies in a newschannel should have consequenses.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    The limitations to freedom of the press do not extend to stopping them from lying. That is just the current common law on the matter.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommon64 View Post
    They actually fought, and won a court case for their 'right' to lie.
    This saddens me a great deal, please tell me there are newschannels in America that value objectivity above sensation :/

  6. #26
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    This saddens me a great deal, please tell me there are newschannels in America that value objectivity above sensation :/
    All media in every country makes its living from sensationalism and muckraking precisely because that is what the vast majority of the public is interested in.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The limitations to freedom of the press do not extend to stopping them from lying. That is just the current common law on the matter.
    Well, it should. If it doesn't then there is something wrong with the law. (And this does not have to infringe with the right of free speech, we have the internet and countless other tv-programs for that)

  8. #28
    Pandaren Monk
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it fair to call WBC right wing or left wing? As far as I know they don't really have a spectrum of political views.

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    All media in every country makes its living from sensationalism and muckraking precisely because that is what the vast majority of the public is interested in.
    That is just not true, not all media. Don't talk absolutes, there are in fact a lot of newsmedia that value truth and objectivity above sensation.
    This mostly has to do with the fact that there are people who want to know the truth and not what they want to hear (and its not just a marginal amount)

  10. #30
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    Well, it should. If it doesn't then there is something wrong with the law. (And this does not have to infringe with the right of free speech, we have the internet and countless other tv-programs for that)
    I'd rather err on the side of permitting lying, because restricting it carries a very bad legal precedent. The only situation in which 'lying' is not protected speech is defamation, and that has to be targeted at an individual or specific organisation, not just 'the left wing'.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    Can someone tell me why a newschannel is allowed to tell lies? I know there is a right of free speech, but to tell lies in a newschannel should have consequenses.
    Depends on the country. In Canada, it's illegal for a media outlet to label itself as "News" while also intentionally lying. It's one of the reasons Fox does not have an outlet here (just rebroadcasts). It would need to rename itself to something like "Fox TV" or something to that effect.

    For reference: http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-po...ng-on-the-news

  12. #32
    I'm not one for actual acts of violence, but my guess is that if the next gun tragedy were to happen to kill all the westboro clowns there wouldn't be too much sleep lost over it! But left wing - if they're left wing I'm the first Miss Scotland with a penis.
    Koodledrum - Balnazzar EU - 85 Priest - Retired.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    All media in every country makes its living from sensationalism and muckraking precisely because that is what the vast majority of the public is interested in.
    Untrue

    http://www.democracynow.org/
    http://therealnews.com/

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Rommon64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it fair to call WBC right wing or left wing? As far as I know they don't really have a spectrum of political views.
    They're fundamental extremists, when you start getting to the fringes, the differences are so minor, you might as well not try and fit them on the scale.

    The WBC isn't an example of how nuts the right is (not saying whether or not it is here), but how nuts extremists are.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    How are these kooks affiliated with any political spectrum? They're nuts. Anyone who says theyre far right or far left is nuts themselves. Grow up!
    a lot of the wbc views line up with many far right stances, except wbc throws mindless hate to the mix.
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  16. #36
    Scarab Lord GreatOak's Avatar
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    Kkk was founded by Democrats, and the left opposed the abolition of slavery
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  17. #37
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    And here is the problem with politics in the U.S.

    Crazy group is defined to be of one side or the other, just so people can, what? Claim that all people of that side are crazy stupid, or that they support them? No. Nobody, nobody on this planet supports WBC. To Fox News, to the people on this forum, to the entire planet: stop making up shit for no reason and win your place with REAL problems. Stop pushing people like the WBC, the KK, or Roger Goddell to one side so you can say "haha, they're stupid, just like the rest of em".

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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    Depends on the country. In Canada, it's illegal for a media outlet to label itself as "News" while also intentionally lying. It's one of the reasons Fox does not have an outlet here (just rebroadcasts). It would need to rename itself to something like "Fox TV" or something to that effect.

    For reference: http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-po...ng-on-the-news
    Yet somehow we still have a fox news of the north. Sun news media.

  19. #39
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    That is just not true, not all media. Don't talk absolutes, there are in fact a lot of newsmedia that value truth and objectivity above sensation.
    I can talk absolutes in this situation because quite simply it is the truth, for a variety of reasons. The majority of media actually does value truth and objectivity, and goes to insane lengths in order to avoid making value judgements on a situation.

    Where the bias towards sensationalism originates from is the simple fact that every news media from BBC, to Al Jazeera, to Fox News, has to pick a limited number of stories in order to publish. And since they are working to a market, they publish stories they think that market would find interesting - and in the vast majority of the time, this happens to be sensationalism, muckraking, gossip, and crisis.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokru View Post
    Could also be, that they want to push Westboro towards the Democrats. Some form of dicrediting them by connecting Westboro to them.
    Since the report specifically made a point to say what political parties the bikers and westboro are *supposedly* affiliated with, you're probably right.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2012-12-24 at 10:54 PM.

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