We have to keep in mind that in 5.2 with new gear we might be ahead even more of other specs even if we recieve the GoSac nerf, as people already said, aff locks scaling is insane compared to other specs.
If we flip your argument to the Hunter one, of allowing them such mobility because of lower theoretical DPS; then that's something that has to be applied to the spec, not the talent, as the talent itself is already of varying usefulness to each spec.
Regarding meeles I think they actually all should be ahead on a Patchwerk fight to compensate for being so bad at target switching. It shouldn't damage your raid to have 2-3 meeles in it (in 10-man, not sure what that would be for 25), which rarely has even been an option in current content.
By contrast, there are other specs where there aren't even 200 parses, because nobody plays them. On Vizier 10H, Destruction Warlock has 33 parses total with a rank limit of 63k. Arms has 19 parses total with a 58k rank limit. Unholy DK? 13 parses total with a 71k rank limit. 25H is a similar situation for all of those specs.
The difference between #100 and #200 parse in Vizier for affliction is 6k: going from 97k to 91k. That's a huge sample of affliction warlocks playing that fight (huge), meaning that's why the difference between Top 100 and Top 200, while there, is pretty minimal for good specs given that high rank limit.
Given the high affliction rank limit (91k), it's pretty safe to assume that a good chunk of the top 200 are in fact receiving BoPs (which is good for progression) and are either multidotting the P2 echo because their group is killing it, or padding the P2 echo with a single round of DoTs, which takes 1 global on a farm kill.
Garalon for instance is not encounter-neutral. During progression it is bad to pad meters by dotting all the legs in a melee heavy group, because melee receive bigger bonuses from killing legs than dotters do. During farm, people will blow up meters by (not helping the encounter) and dotting all legs. So the end-tier ranking doesn't reflect what class was good for progression, whatsoever.
Grand Empress Shek'zeer: looking at all top 5 affliction warlock parses, I see an average of 12.8 million damage on Kor'thik Reaver. Hint: you don't need to do that.
Can people please actually, you know, do some of these encounters before talking about their raidbots?
As GC even has said, for the most part classes are balanced around patchwerk (hence referring to sims), and then are balanced to make sure they aren't too weak on certain fight demands (movement, AoE).
Dude, you're 6/10 for HoF and Terrace normal.
I'm at the point where I just roll my eyes when I see posts from you. GC said class balance is done around Patchwerk sims? What a joke, show me a source. I remember him saying the exact opposite during beta when Boomkins were bitching about their patchwerk dps.
Last edited by Teye; 2012-12-28 at 10:02 PM.
Check achievements. Check raid titles. Keep talking. I did say many times that my warlock was (mostly) inactive at this point.
I'm done with the flamefest. Teye, looking back, you first began throwing out insults like a little kid, then had a hissy fit on me and multiple others when they talked sense, and finally you are now trying to pin any/all flaming on me and others. Last reply you're getting from me regarding anything.
If people want to keep debating raidbots, then I'm all ears. But there are multiple twitters from GC/others regarding "gimmick fights." As you just saw, a good amount of heart of fear falls under that category.
Last edited by nightfalls; 2012-12-28 at 10:21 PM.
Also, yes, theoretically Shadow/Balance might (?) be better at multi-dotting. That isn't the case at the moment; Affliction pulls ahead from Balance/Shadow even on fights with heavy multidotting (Will, Sha of Fear N, many others).
---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 01:56 AM ----------
No, it's not. 200 wouldn't be much different from 100, because of the exact reason you're describing. This is why the option disappeared going from stateofdps to raidbots. On Vizier 10H, for example, if you scroll down it well tell you that there has been 594 parses from Affliction and that all of them are being looked at.All Parses still = Top 200 parses
If you were looking at top 100 (or top 200 if it existed) you would be right; there *would* be meter padding - far more than there is when looking at All Parses. Just like there is on every fight, in varying degree. This is one of the reasons it's statistically unviable to only look at the top 100.
I haven't discussed any encounters that I haven't done personally.Can people please actually, you know, do some of these encounters before talking about their raidbots?
Last edited by Evela; 2012-12-29 at 01:01 AM.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Blade_Lor...14/60/default/ for example, you'll see that that's almost 2000 Affliction parses.
You are, right for the sample size mattering MUCH more than Teye or the OP realize. Demonology is strong enough that any nerf to Affliction would result in Demo taking a similar spot in rankings - the only reason that hasn't manifested is because literally 10 times more players are playing Affliction. For all the 'it's KJC!' people, keep in mind that Demo is a spec that largely doesn't suffer from movement either; even with the 4-piece bonus, Demo has enough time between Dark Souls to 'spend' some fury on movement without it adversely affecting DPS during Meta.
Finally, any argument citing the weakness of Shadow and the 'gap' between Affliction and Shadow should be thrown out. In fact, any hybrid argument should be largely ignored, because hybrids bring very real utility that support guilds bringing them. Certainly there is no class stacking (1994 Affliction samples for Blade Lord 25H, 1761 for Shadow samples on the same fight). Yes, Blizzard has said in the past they're getting rid of the hybrid tax, but please look at results over intentions. Every hybrid class that has OS heals lags in damage behind pures. This is in large part due to PvP balance, but also because healing utility is huge and valuable. Affliction could sit at 20% above Shadow for every fight but it will never be able to Hymn or Mass Dispel. We can argue this until our faces are blue but results are everything. I did not hear of a single WF guild through all of progression drop any hybrids due to DPS weakness. The only comparisons that should be made are between the best pure DPS specs on each fight.
The hybrid tax is - officially - gone, and while you're right in saying that it still lingers to some extent (though likely not on purpose, but rather due to PvP balance/having less specs to choose from etc.), it still doesn't mean that it should.
But why not? I am arguing that in this very current tier, that there IS a hybrid tax, and that encounter design has made it so that it's okay to have a hybrid tax. I don't see anything to prove me wrong about that 2nd part.