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  1. #21
    Even tho i completely agree they need to buff alli racials i doubt it would eve happen...most top guilds are already horde... Most top pvpers are Ali... I do agree that every race should have the free trinket and they just remove the pvp trinket all together and give humans something else to make up for it

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    It doesn't matter that "Alliance only has ONE good PvP racial!" when it's the BEST one. That's how this works. People don't decide to go horde for PvP because "They have more PvP racials!" People roll human because it's the best.
    It's the best burst racial. Several Horde ones deliver a hell of a lot of different utility. Remember Will of the forsaken pre nerf? Was almost mandatory for some classes and is still strong as hell. People still do pick Horde for PvP, hell the vast majority does and yes they're doing it because of racials.
    Night elf is the best tanking racial. Period. Dwarf is probably second best. (they're both amazing) Horde tanking racials - don't exist.
    2% dodge is nice, that's about it. The dwarf one is 8 second 10%+ armor every 2 minutes, not even worth mentioning. And let's just forgot about Tauren increased health, will we?
    I BELIEVE Humans have the best healing racial. Blood Elf Arcane Torrent and "The Human Spirit" racials were both nerfed for MoP but Humans still have the 'narrow' advantage. The only other 'healing' racials are throughput (expansive mind, bloodfury, berserking) which have variable impact based on class.
    Debatable, more spirit doesn't add anything to any other specialization then healers. Bloodfury, berserking, blood elf arcane torrent do.
    Like I said, Horde have the clear advantage when it comes to PvE DPS racials, and that's usually what it comes down to for TOP-END guilds. I would argue that amazing tanking racials make a much bigger difference for the 'average' guild than it does for the top-end guilds, and better healing racials also fall under that category.
    No, just no. Healing often isn't the issue, DPS is. And the Alliance racials aren't all that "amazing". We do have the better racials, the Alliance is overall screwed and quite far behind. Why is it so hard to acknowledge? It's like telling those people that Silvershard mine is the most imbalanced PvP map I know. I have won nearly all games on it so far, random.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    I BELIEVE Humans have the best healing racial.
    Human:
    Every Man for Himself No healing.
    Diplomacy No healing.
    The Human Spirit No healing.
    Mace Specialization No healing.
    Sword Specialization No healing.

    Troll:
    Regeneration

    Undead:
    Touch of the Grave

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Anias View Post
    Human:
    Every Man for Himself No healing.
    Diplomacy No healing.
    The Human Spirit No healing.
    Mace Specialization No healing.
    Sword Specialization No healing.

    Troll:
    Regeneration

    Undead:
    Touch of the Grave
    spirit is a healing stat
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    It's the best burst racial. Several Horde ones deliver a hell of a lot of different utility. Remember Will of the forsaken pre nerf? Was almost mandatory for some classes and is still strong as hell. People still do pick Horde for PvP, hell the vast majority does and yes they're doing it because of racials.
    Source please, that people are rolling horde for PvP racials. I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass.

    2% dodge is nice, that's about it. The dwarf one is 8 second 10%+ armor every 2 minutes, not even worth mentioning. And let's just forgot about Tauren increased health, will we?
    2% dodge is the best tanking racial, period. "That's about it." Dwarf one is an amazing tank CD. If you asked any top-end guild tank how good an extra 10% damage reduction CD would be, do you think any of them would really say, "Nah, I'd rather have 500 more hp."

    I can't easily find how much extra HP the tauren racial actually gives, and I don't care enough to figure out - if you want to argue that it's good, you can figure out exactly how much it's worth. In the meantime, Tauren is the worst race in the game. Warstomp gives some PvP "utility", but again, there's no comparison to humans as far as "Which is better?"

    Debatable, more spirit doesn't add anything to any other specialization then healers. Bloodfury, berserking, blood elf arcane torrent do.
    I don't know what this is supposed to mean. Healers like more spirit. The fact that those other racials are good for other specs doesn't matter.

    No, just no. Healing often isn't the issue, DPS is. And the Alliance racials aren't all that "amazing". We do have the better racials, the Alliance is overall screwed and quite far behind. Why is it so hard to acknowledge?
    I don't agree. Horde have better DPS racials, as I've said, once again - but if your raid is about to wipe, and your night elf tank dodges an attack that otherwise would have wiped your raid, and you kill a boss that your raid otherwise wouldn't have... then the tanking racial made a bigger difference. If your combined better tank racials as well as better healing racials means you can do an encounter LONGER because your healer run out of mana SLOWER, which means your DPS can do LESS DAMAGE on a particular encounter - then your racials are far from "useless." Unfortunately this isn't mathematically falsifiable.

    Also unfortunately, a lot of encounters have "hard" DPS checks, as in if you don't make a particular timer it's probably a wipe. If you don't push Elegon to a set % at a set point then you wipe. If you don't kill this or that in a set amount of seconds, it's a wipe. That's also why most of the top guilds are Horde, or rerolled Horde. However, that doesn't mean "If my World 1000 guild rerolled Horde tomorrow, we would be able to kill bosses we couldn't before." Also, a lot of these "hard DPS checks" don't exist when your world 1000 guild rolls around to an encounter. Your group doesn't struggle to meet that same timer at ilvl 500 that Method did at ilvl 480. You don't have to min/max the way they do. The DPS racials (all racials, actually) make less of a difference to you than they do to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anias View Post
    You don't actually know what I'm talking about when I say "healing racial", right?
    Last edited by Daerio; 2012-12-25 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #26
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Actually I think they should give every race a single racial ability that's a usable thing but not the most super duper amazing thing and a passive one

    For example:
    night elves - shadowmeld, wisp form
    blood elves - arcane torrent, enchanting bonus
    goblins - rocket jump, the goblin money bonus
    worgen - their sprinting thing, the skinning bonus
    etc.

    And make all other stuff that gives a major benefit to dps or PvP either something for all or something you can chose from a list.
    So, give the PvP free "trinket" as an ability to all, and let you chose 2 out of X abilities, something like:
    -gives increased damage with ranged weapons for Y seconds, 2 min cooldown
    -gives Z% haste for Y seconds, 2 min cooldown
    etc.
    And all these should be balanced.

    This way each race still have a nice partially useful ability of its own, a passive somewhat helpful one, the PvP one and 2 abilities they chose from a list depending on what they want.

  7. #27
    Pretty sure that blue post was just hinting that horde PvE output cooldown racials, berserking and blood fury, could get nerfed because they're having a bigger effect than they want racials to.

  8. #28
    Racials should be renamed to "background story bonuses" and made available to everyone. That way you can have "gift of the naaru" renamed and put on an orc toon and what not. Essentially this would allow you to pick races based on what you like about their looks and lore rather than their bonuses in the game, the way it should have been from the start.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    And both pale in comparison to +300 spirit/intellect a Pandaren can get.
    Unless I am mistaken and the racial isn't 3% anymore how is 3% of 13k spirit in current endgame gear worse than 300 spirit ?
    Anyways I still feel they should just get rid of them as the racials are just another thing they are not able or willing to balance properly.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabsy View Post
    Most top pvpers are Ali...
    Oh really? I see most arena top teams are Horde. Care to explain that?

  11. #31
    Lets first give Blood Elves the 4th racial they're missing (Every other race has 4 or more) and then we'll talk about balancing.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Unless I am mistaken and the racial isn't 3% anymore how is 3% of 13k spirit in current endgame gear worse than 300 spirit ?
    Because most healing classes can go with 10k or less spirit now. If a Pandaren Priest, Shaman or Monk decides they'd rather have +300int rather than +300spirit, they have the choice that Humans don't. There are shamans running progression with less than 8k spirit at this point.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    You don't actually know what I'm talking about when I say "healing racial", right?
    +Spirit is only good for a human healing class whereas the troll and undead racials are usable by every class.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    The problem is Alliance is too good for PvP (well human is to be specific) and Horde is too good for PvE.

    I think a good change is to give us, say, 10 racials and we pick 4 to use.
    Yes, the problem is humans have one OK racial for PvP, orcs, trolls, and blood elves have great racials for PvE.

    that's what I'm talking about. if you guys want a racial buff, you'd better start transfering to the horde even if you aren't a top raider. actually, you should do it especially if you aren't a top raider. this way GC will buff alliance racials for PvE.
    I dont really see how they can measure that. Some people xfer to the otherside because of better pool of players to choose from or to play with RL friends etc. etc. You don't get a reason to select when you do a race/faction xfer so Im not sure how they will go about determining this. They should just look at the existing top guilds break down for all servers, where the bulk of performing ones are Horde for *gasp* racials. GC should know better.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivosoturi View Post
    Lets first give Blood Elves the 4th racial they're missing (Every other race has 4 or more) and then we'll talk about balancing.
    Yeah, this. Though, with 5.2 MAYBE they'll get some well deserved racial love

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Yes, the problem is humans have one OK racial for PvP, orcs, trolls, and blood elves have great racials for PvE.
    How do the blood elves have 'great' racials for PvE? For any other than mana user, Arcane Torrent is pretty irrelevant (Yeah, interrupt on 2min cooldown brings, umm, utility I guess... hardly) after the mana gain was nerfed 66%. Enchanting bonus provides nothing if you don't have enchanting and the magic resistance racial that used to be pretty damn amazing as well was first nerfed to just Arcane resistance and now it causes arcane spells to deal 1% less damage. Really irrelevant.

    Tauren have the same problem but at least the herbalism bonus is pretty goddamn fun.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by neubs986 View Post
    Yeah, this. Though, with 5.2 MAYBE they'll get some well deserved racial love
    Arcane torrent isn't good enough? One great racial is worth 4 trash ones.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 02:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raivosoturi View Post
    How do the blood elves have 'great' racials for PvE? For any other than mana user, Arcane Torrent is pretty irrelevant (Yeah, interrupt on 2min cooldown brings, umm, utility I guess... hardly) after the mana gain was nerfed 66%. Enchanting bonus provides nothing if you don't have enchanting and the magic resistance racial that used to be pretty damn amazing as well was first nerfed to just Arcane resistance and now it causes arcane spells to deal 1% less damage. Really irrelevant.

    Tauren have the same problem but at least the herbalism bonus is pretty goddamn fun.
    You gain energy, rage, runic power with arcane torrent for non mana users, it's convenient utility for *all specs and classes* which is what makes it great, that sure as hell beats everything Alliance have for PvE.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    beats everything Alliance have for PvE.
    Human: Mace Specialization, Sword Specialization (340 Expertise)
    Dwarf: Mace Specialization, Crack Shot (340 Expertise)
    Gnome: Shortblade Specialization (340 Expertise)
    Night Elf: Quickness (1,770 Dodge)
    Draenei: Heroic Presence (340 Hit)
    Worgen: Viciousness (600 Critical Strike)
    Pandaren: Epicurean (300 Intellect, Agility, Strength, Spirit, Hit, Expertise, or 450 Stamina)

    Nah.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivosoturi View Post
    Human: Mace Specialization, Sword Specialization (340 Expertise)
    Dwarf: Mace Specialization, Crack Shot (340 Expertise)
    Gnome: Shortblade Specialization (340 Expertise)
    Night Elf: Quickness (1,770 Dodge)
    Draenei: Heroic Presence (340 Hit)
    Worgen: Viciousness (600 Critical Strike)
    Pandaren: Epicurean (300 Intellect, Agility, Strength, Spirit, Hit, Expertise, or 450 Stamina)

    Nah.
    Pandaren racials don't count exclusively as "Alliance"
    hit/expertise racials mean nothing for healers, very little for tanks
    Quickness is garbage for anything that isn't a tank, it *used* to be nice when it was -2% hit
    Crit is only good for some classes and specs, not all.

    For my non-tank toons, which is anything that doesn't wear plate, I'd gladly trade Quickness (useless) for Arcane torrent. You can have wisp spirit too.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    They shouldn't remove racials, or make them baseline. They add flavor to classes which is a good thing. What they should do is buff Alli racials. Simple fix. Give alli races versions of Berserking and Blood Fury. Pretty simple fix. And give horde a version of EMFH.
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