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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    You gain energy, rage, runic power with arcane torrent for non mana users, it's convenient utility for *all specs and classes* which is what makes it great, that sure as hell beats everything Alliance have for PvE.
    You do not know what you're talking about. Blood Elf is the worst horde race (other than Tauren) for every DPS class/spec in PvE. 2 minute CD, it restores 2% mana (6k) and doesn't scale for mana users. It restores 15 energy/runic power. I'm not going to hunt through rogue abilities, but that is not enough RP to cast a single frost strike or death coil. Casting Horn of Winter (20 sec CD) generates 10 RP, by comparison.

    If you see a PvE blood elf anything, you can be sure they aren't min/maxing their racial, because it sucks for everything. I cannot believe you're arguing that it's a "great" PvE racial, lol. Get informed.

    Hell, for some DPS specs, Worgen actually have the best racials in the game - that 1% crit and sprint are both pretty amazing.
    Last edited by Daerio; 2012-12-26 at 02:34 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivosoturi View Post
    Human: Mace Specialization, Sword Specialization (340 Expertise)
    Dwarf: Mace Specialization, Crack Shot (340 Expertise)
    Gnome: Shortblade Specialization (340 Expertise)
    Night Elf: Quickness (1,770 Dodge)
    Draenei: Heroic Presence (340 Hit)
    Worgen: Viciousness (600 Critical Strike)
    Pandaren: Epicurean (300 Intellect, Agility, Strength, Spirit, Hit, Expertise, or 450 Stamina)

    Nah.
    I agree that Blood Elves are bad example for good PVE racials, but listing these (the passives ones at that) is just plain stupid. Horde racials in general are just miles ahead of the Alliance for top PVE content (and it seems for PVP as well), or else even the traditional top Alliance guilds wouldn't have jumped ship to Horde.

    And why include Pandaren into Alliance exclusive racials?
    Last edited by corebit; 2012-12-26 at 02:40 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    And give horde a version of EMFH.
    We all know which race (Goblins) would get that one.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    I agree that Blood Elves are bad example for good PVE racials, but listing these (the passives ones at that) is just plain stupid. Horde racials in general are just miles ahead of the Alliance for top PVE content (and it seems for PVP as well), or else even the traditional top Alliance guilds wouldn't have jumped ship to Horde.
    I don't mean to make this discussion Alliance vs Horde shit-flinging, that never leads anywhere. I do agree that Horde has better PvE racials than Alliance, however, I think that blood elves need that 4th racial that would make them at least somewhat competetive in PvE. Ergo, blood elves need a PvE racial. Tauren also.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivosoturi View Post
    Tauren also.
    Tauren got shafted in a lot of ways but I really wish they'd change the "+5% base health" to "+5% health." My Monk when put into Brewmaster is sitting just under 450,000 hp. If he got that multiplied by 1.05 it would only be 22,500 hp more. A single melee attack from a boss. (If even that.) As it stands, if he were Tauren his base health would increase by about 7,300. Nothing. Less than a single tick of most directly applied HoTs. A racial they could literally take away and cause no effect whatsoever.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  6. #46
    Been needed for a long time. Horde racials have always been better than Alliance ones with the exception of EMFH in pvp, and who cares about pvp in a pve game. Go play COD or Halo.

  7. #47
    Removing racials just removes more of the rpg aspect of the game. They already removed so many other things in this regard. It would make sense given their current direction for the game but I would much prefer they don't remove unique racials.

  8. #48
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    There was a post that said if many guilds will continue to swap factions, Blizz will change some racials of the Alliance (Currently no burst at all).
    Any thoughts?
    Although I doubt Blizzard was thinking as cynically as I'll interpret it, for all intents and purposes this means: "We'll balance racials, if the price is right. Buy enough faction transfers, and tell your friends and guilds to do the same, and we'll take another look at racial balance."

    They're soliciting bribes, basically. Again, I don't think Blizzard thinks of it this way. But that doesn't stop it from being what it is.

  9. #49
    Scarab Lord ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    I would rather see all racials removed.

    You mean I have room for text now?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    And both pale in comparison to +300 spirit/intellect a Pandaren can get.
    Wrong. Arcane Torrent is better than the Pandaren food buff for regen purposes. The Human Spirit beats the Pandaren food buff on spirit food, naturally.

    Intellect is best for healers (with regards to food/flask) anyway though.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Wrong. Arcane Torrent is better than the Pandaren food buff for regen purposes. The Human Spirit beats the Pandaren food buff on spirit food, naturally.

    Intellect is best for healers (with regards to food/flask) anyway though.
    We aren't going to agree on this. Arcane Torrent is 2% mana every 2 minutes. That's extremely tiny. This isn't like when it was 6% and you could get a big heal off of it and being someone from the Monk forums you know 2% won't even be enough to throw out a single Renewing Mist or even Jab.

    Humans get +3% spirit then have to choose between +300 spirit or +300 int. My point was that if they aren't running with >10,000 spirit, then a Pandaren eating spirit food would beat them out by ~300 spirit. Humans can't Druids or Shamans and thus have certain deficits in their ability to be compared with some healing specs. This leads me to my next point.

    Also, another "you should know better" is that there are healing classes that run with spirit food and sometimes spirit flask. Not all of them, obviously, but a few (*cough* Mistweaver *cough*) have had their mana regen and costs nerfed to the point that running with all throughput food/flask will result in them OoMing halfway through a fight no matter how good they are. In normal mode.
    Last edited by TheWindWalker; 2012-12-26 at 05:33 PM.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    Source please, that people are rolling horde for PvP racials. I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass.
    Same right back to you. Saying that a lot of Horde racials aren't insanely strong for a lot of DPS in PvP is just plain stupid.
    2% dodge is the best tanking racial, period. "That's about it." Dwarf one is an amazing tank CD. If you asked any top-end guild tank how good an extra 10% damage reduction CD would be, do you think any of them would really say, "Nah, I'd rather have 500 more hp."
    Oh please. Not knowing that 10% armor doesn't directly convert into 10% less damage alone disqualifies you from any kind of discussion.
    I can't easily find how much extra HP the tauren racial actually gives, and I don't care enough to figure out - if you want to argue that it's good, you can figure out exactly how much it's worth. In the meantime, Tauren is the worst race in the game. Warstomp gives some PvP "utility", but again, there's no comparison to humans as far as "Which is better?"
    BS! Especially since PvE trinkets became far worse for PvP due to PvP power the human racial has suffered quite a bit. Add to that that they further nerfed trinkets with 5.1. The Tauren stomp is far from bad, in fact it is a great utiltiy to safe yourself as an healer or interrupt/delay an cast till your real interrupt is ready once again where with other races it would've gone off.
    I don't know what this is supposed to mean. Healers like more spirit. The fact that those other racials are good for other specs doesn't matter.
    I'm a goblin shaman healer, I have plenty of mana. More mana is nice, but I can easily make do with what I have already.
    I don't agree. Horde have better DPS racials, as I've said, once again - but if your raid is about to wipe, and your night elf tank dodges an attack that otherwise would have wiped your raid, and you kill a boss that your raid otherwise wouldn't have... then the tanking racial made a bigger difference. If your combined better tank racials as well as better healing racials means you can do an encounter LONGER because your healer run out of mana SLOWER, which means your DPS can do LESS DAMAGE on a particular encounter - then your racials are far from "useless." Unfortunately this isn't mathematically falsifiable.
    You dodge one hit and die from the next, man that sure helped a lot! Compare that to not having to last as long simply because your damage output is higher. And most of the world top guilds agree with me, many of them even went horde for this exact reason.
    Also unfortunately, a lot of encounters have "hard" DPS checks, as in if you don't make a particular timer it's probably a wipe. If you don't push Elegon to a set % at a set point then you wipe. If you don't kill this or that in a set amount of seconds, it's a wipe. That's also why most of the top guilds are Horde, or rerolled Horde. However, that doesn't mean "If my World 1000 guild rerolled Horde tomorrow, we would be able to kill bosses we couldn't before." Also, a lot of these "hard DPS checks" don't exist when your world 1000 guild rolls around to an encounter. Your group doesn't struggle to meet that same timer at ilvl 500 that Method did at ilvl 480. You don't have to min/max the way they do. The DPS racials (all racials, actually) make less of a difference to you than they do to them.
    I wouldn't have to reroll, I am playing Horde you... Your logic is flawed by that reality proofs you to be wrong. Most progress and successfull guilds either play Horde or swapped to Horde. Horde PvPers outnumber Alliance by a large margin. Otherwise I wouldn't have to wait 7-15 minutes for a damn battleground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Been needed for a long time. Horde racials have always been better than Alliance ones with the exception of EMFH in pvp, and who cares about pvp in a pve game. Go play COD or Halo.
    How about you go play Hello Kitty online then? Because there's no PvP to worry about!

  13. #53
    Immortal Arbs's Avatar
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    Remove Current Racials & provide them with Racial Stat & Weapon Buffs thats all.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Oh please. Not knowing that 10% armor doesn't directly convert into 10% less damage alone disqualifies you from any kind of discussion.
    10% extra armor is a little less than 10% damage reduction. This disqualifies me from any king of discussion apparently.

    BS! Especially since PvE trinkets became far worse for PvP due to PvP power the human racial has suffered quite a bit. Add to that that they further nerfed trinkets with 5.1. The Tauren stomp is far from bad, in fact it is a great utiltiy to safe yourself as an healer or interrupt/delay an cast till your real interrupt is ready once again where with other races it would've gone off.
    We weren't talking about war stomp, or PvP, or anything else. We were talking about TANKING RACIALS. Tauren one is garbage. Night Elf and Dwarf ones are amazing. Horde tanking racials don't exist. That was the discussion, you obviously lost, move on. (I also noticed that you didn't post how much HP the tauren racial grants, despite me asking you to do this if you're going to try to argue "how good it is")

  15. #55
    I hope they will remove it, people would play whatever race they want, not the one with best racial.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    We aren't going to agree on this. Arcane Torrent is 2% mana every 2 minutes.
    2% of 300k = 6k

    = 3k every 1 min or 250 mp/5

    equiv to spirit = 500 spirit

    pandas get 300 spirit

    AT > Panda for regen
    Panda > all other for spellpower

    i'm human on my monk because of regen purposes.

    also human racial scales with spirit procs making them better too

  17. #57
    I dont get why people care that much for racials. Most likely you are not at the skill level where a racial is to make the difference. I also can understand that getting the best out of a class is a sole aim for some players, but I dont really buy that they are this much. I love my mage, and I played arena 3s to 2300 as a gnome. when I refused to come after my mates who continuously asked me to reroll human, they abandoned me for mop because "we will never reach gladiator ranks if we dont go with the best racials" - sigh.

    OT: I now almost only raid, so I think the gnome racials are already in shape, but I dont like weapon type oriented ones like the expertise (though it's finally worth something to casters). I feel bad now if I take a staff, and I love staves more than other things. Or give us the opportunity to transmog 1 hand daggers to 2 hand staves ; )
    getting offtopic again, meh
    good night
    I have forgotten more than you will ever know..

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