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  1. #21
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurean View Post
    But seriously: The wall I was talking about, you hit mostly in Townlong Steppes and Dread Wastes where you kinda had to level up your first char. Most alts now have enough rested bonus that they hit 90 in Kun Lai Summit. Mobs in Kun Lai only have ~60% hp compared to those in Dread Wastes and don't hit as hard. So I guess every toon feels easier to level up than the first char.
    Each of the alts I mentioned hit Dread Wastes before 90. I'm comparing apples to apples.

    @Endus: Still, leveling an Affli Lock was just crazy. Killing everything (non-Elites) with just hitting one button once till 88 feels easier. Spriest and Boomkin were not as faceroll as Affli.
    Are we talking "I only need one button" easy, or are we talking "I murderate things before they even get to melee range" easy?

    The former is easy, but boring. Elemental is still the latter. Between Overloads, EotE, and Lava Surge, almost nothing ever closed to melee range before dying. Packs were almost as fast to kill as single targets, due to CL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask View Post
    Try leveling a mage as fire then Endus.
    Insta cast Pyroblast on most mobs, critting for 80% of the mob's health or more (and pyroblast's dot kills the mob while you pull the next).
    Elemental just doesn't compare.
    How is it you're getting insta cast Pyroblast on most mobs? POM has a 1.5 minute CD, and Pyroblast needs 2 direct-damage crits to proc an instant cast itself. If you're casting enough to proc that to open on "most" mobs, you're not killing them with an instant Pyroblast each time.

    And there were PLENTY of times I'd proc an Overload and a Lava Surge and blow a mob up as Elemental before it took two steps. That's not unique to Fire, nor is Elemental incapable of it.


    Seriously, if you struggled to level as Elemental, you were doing something wrong. It struggles a bit in sustained raid damage, but that's not what you use for leveling.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Are we talking "I only need one button" easy, or are we talking "I murderate things before they even get to melee range" easy?
    I was not talking about some random proc luck, like overloads etc. What I meant is: target a mob, use a gcd, target next mob, use a gcd, and so on...target 5th or 6th mob, use gcd, channel 2-3 secs, loot all of them. Rinse and repeat. On level 85 and 86, you don't need to channel, you can pull endlessly and only need to stop to loot.

    But all this talking about how leveling "felt" is kinda nonsense. There were those oneshots und there were those 15 seconds that felt like an eternity until a mob died. LvB hits for ~50k? with level 89, LB for ~25k noncrit and takes 1.9 seconds to cast...mobs in Dread Wastes have around 500k hp, not all of them, but some even more; I am talking about non elites. They felt like an eternity to kill. As Elemental you also have to heal up quite a bit, as affliction you don't: glyph drain soul, if a mob has 300k+ hp, you use it anyway. That alone saves 1-2 gcds per mob. "Just blast 3 mobs away with CL" - sure...but make sure you don't die by using gcds for totems und time for healing up.
    I am only talking about affliction here. Endus, try leveling affliction, maybe before the more than deserved nerfs are coming. SS:SW is just a bad joke by Blizzard. I takes one gcd to apply all dots. I had great gear to level up my lock, but doing 300k damage (over time) on level 85 with just pressing one button. I can't think of any specc that can do that repeatedly. Admittedly it only works 4 times without shard procs, if you don't any, just drain soul the lowest hp mob, it takes 2 seconds at most; then just pull the next 4 mobs, siphon life und the occasional drain soul keep your health up.
    Gear on any level is better now on toons than on the main; but in Townlong Steppes I still chainpulled 4 or 5 mobs.

    I wasn't struggling leveling my Elemental, I am just saying there are speccs that just level way faster. Not talking about 5mans, CL rocks there, only talking about solo questing.

    Well, just my opinion

  3. #23
    How is it you're getting insta cast Pyroblast on most mobs? POM has a 1.5 minute CD, and Pyroblast needs 2 direct-damage crits to proc an instant cast itself. If you're casting enough to proc that to open on "most" mobs, you're not killing them with an instant Pyroblast each time.
    POM is not necessary for this.
    With an average crit chance of 35% (very easy to get with arcane intellect and molten armor), and with the guaranteed crit of Inferno Blast, it's perfectly normal to have very frequent instacast Pyroblasts.
    While leveling, smart use of Inferno Blast and Combustion can guarantee even more instant Pyroblasts.
    For example, you can finish a mob with Inferno Blast, blink to the next mob, cast a Pyroblast while you wait for IB's cooldown to end, queue IB at the end of Pyroblast so it hits first, and then you have 2 pyroblasts hitting the mob back to back, the second one being instant.
    You can also use Combustion to reset Inferno Blast's cooldown, and trigger an instant Pyroblast.
    And of course, you can add a POM-Pyroblast on top of that every 90s.

    And there were PLENTY of times I'd proc an Overload and a Lava Surge and blow a mob up as Elemental before it took two steps. That's not unique to Fire, nor is Elemental incapable of it.
    The difference here is that as fire it's very common and with a bit of skill, you can sort of control it, whereas as elemental, it happens maybe once in ten mobs, and it just blind luck.
    I know both specs, and levelled both recently. Fire is just plain better. Not saying Elemental is broken or anything though. It's just weaker.
    Last edited by Ask; 2012-12-27 at 10:56 PM.

  4. #24
    hit like realm 19th? lvl 90 as elemental doing 87-90 solo, i never had to spam heals or ran oom.

    the time lost leveling elemental vs locks or mages is made up when im doing over 50% more dps every trash pack in a hc with 1 button, then ascendance the boss down in 25 secs :P

  5. #25
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask View Post
    POM is not necessary for this.
    With an average crit chance of 35% (very easy to get with arcane intellect and molten armor), and with the guaranteed crit of Inferno Blast, it's perfectly normal to have very frequent instacast Pyroblasts.
    I knew it wasn't just POM; that's why I mentioned its CD. I also know that you can get chain-crits and get a lot of insta Pyroblasts, but my point was that it's not going to be pyro-pyro-pyro-pyro-pyro-pyro. You'll be mixing other stuff in to get the crits to make pyro instant.

    The same sort of way that Elemental isn't LvB-LvB-LvB-LvB-LvB, though Pyro will likely be proccing at least as often as Lava Surge if not more so.


    And the whole point was that Elemental is just fine for leveling. There may be a few specs that are a bit better, but there's definitely others that are worse. Elemental is by no means "bad", and will do just fine compared to Enhancement and most other classes. I had almost zero downtime, and what little I did have was settled by 1-3 Healing Surges and usually only happened if I got mobbed in close quarters or faced an elite.

    The difference here is that as fire it's very common and with a bit of skill, you can sort of control it, whereas as elemental, it happens maybe once in ten mobs, and it just blind luck.
    I know both specs, and levelled both recently. Fire is just plain better. Not saying Elemental is broken or anything though. It's just weaker.
    I will admit I haven't leveled a mage (yet; it's my bank toon and I'll get around to it to level up my bank guild at some point, but I've got a lock at least I want to get to 90 first), and while I know Fire will be more controllable, the "once in 10 mobs" thing for me was how often a mob would just shudder as it got hit by 4-5 Lava Bursts in a single GCD and fell over dead (in Dread Wastes at ~89; I'm not talking earlier on). More often, it'd take me a couple GCDs, but things would die before they hit me; I very rarely needed to heal up. That's by no means "bad", and I'm sure mages are for the most part burning a couple GCDs per mob too; my point was just that it's not straight chain-instant-casting Pyro 100% of the time and one-shotting everything.

  6. #26
    Agreed that leveling as ele is pretty easy.... low levels CL in dungeons destroys everything and once you have Lvb you kill everything with 2-3 casts. From 85+ I've had no issues leveling fast. FS then guaranteed crit with extra Lvb being fired off from mastery and lava surge procs and more mastery and dead... Multiple mobs? pull more than most can handle and stun/root with totems to clear things fast, not to mention self healing so no wasted time eating food and such.

  7. #27
    If you are having some issues leveling as elemental it's likely you ARE doing something wrong.

    It's not just casting, it's also using totems. Pulling crazy stuff with elementals out and/or stone bulwark and healing totem makes you nearly unkillable.

    Just stone bulwark/healing totem is enough to end fights versus elites you didn't even bother kiting end with you full mana and full health.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  8. #28
    Can't speak much for low level shaman leveling; by level 30 you can dual spec with resto (whether you dps as enh or ele) and use either to dungeon run for xp.

    85+, I'm 90 on my shaman and I've also been leveling my warrior and mage. Mage is fire, and the killing speed/ease with him is equal to that of my shaman. The instant cast Pyros are from Hot Streak (2 consecutive crits = instant cast Pyro); basically, if we crit a fireball or scorch, hit inferno blast (which always crits) then hurl a big fiery ball of death at whatever poor mob you've targeted. Fire mage feels very comfy to me as someone who mains an ele shaman; sure, I don't have healing surge, but that's what ice barrier is for.

    85+: Elemental levels fine. Fire mage levels fine. Warrior levels fine. My anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, so take it for what you will.

  9. #29
    I leveled as elemental with just the green quest gear you got from the quests. It was horrible. Mobs take forever to kill. You'd get a lava burst in, then rely on lightning bolts that did abysmal damage. At 87, you get ascendance which makes you good for 15 seconds every 3 minutes, but overall, I felt highly underpowered leveling.

    I was NEVER able to kill a mob in 2-3 shots with lava burst. Maybe the turtles in the Valley of Four Winds that had 1/3rd of the HP of regular mobs, but not regular mobs. Boss mobs were easier than normal mobs because I could pop Elemental Mastery and Ancestral Guidance, but overall, it was quite slow.

  10. #30
    It's definitely not as fast as my Hunter or my Warrior. Faster than my Boomkin but slower than him as Feral. All 85+.

    I find it's my least favorite character to level 3 expansions in a row so far but I like playing him at max level. (Resto) Dreading doing dailies with him if I decide to play him more.

  11. #31
    if ur asking about end game....

    in PVE, yes ele shaman are behind.

    and

    in PVP, yes ele shaman are behind.
    Gamers are too obsessed with the death of games. Imagine if all that energy was channeled into the LIFE of games.

  12. #32
    ive said this before...multiple times...elemental shaman spec looks easy? but its harder than you think. what makes it look easy is its simple rotation and and those who are used to playing it. after many years..the rotation is all the same basic consept. and the rotation actually hasnt changed 1 bit just new abilities added in. seems to be a proc based class. its dps is shit without its CDs. the entire class seems to need and be based around flame shock. this ability does very weak damage but? this is the beginning of your spell power boost, mana regen and crit.it will also activate what targets ur fire totems attack. ("mandatory to keep a fire totem down for good dps unless you like poor dps, think of it as a dot") determining what totem to drop literally makes a big dps difference for both dps specs in pvp and pve. i normally call it a 5th button to a rotation..well as far as main abilities go. ur main rotation will always start off FS,LvB(crit for the SP,mana regen) LB til LvB is back up for fulmination stacks ES if 7 stacks and repeat..this is the main roaton..between this..you have Cds you must maintain.
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  13. #33
    I hope they fix elemental dps. Enhancement is good atm. There is like one boss where elemental is good, Wind Lord Mel´jarak, but otherwise worst dps this tier.

  14. #34
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    That was a spam bot, copied something out of my Arcane guide and started posting it around. Other mods, feel free to delete that post. You can then delete mine to avoid confusion.

    And he managed to do it in three other Shaman threads so...
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2012-12-31 at 01:56 AM.

  15. #35
    I feel somewhat at a disadvantage because I am Elemental. As much as I enjoy the class, I'm a bit discouraged because of the fact that I'm not able to throw up numbers as well as other classes. It felt like Ele scaled really well when everyone was first 90 but as more people got gear, the gap between DPS became much higher.

    Now working on H Empress (25), and probably downing it tonight, I'm sat once again because other classes can destroy my damage. I may not be that far behind, but Elemental just sucks right now in my mind.

    Edit: I am by no means a bad player. Also when I say "destroy my damage", I don't mean doubling it, but I do mean that there is a noticeable difference that exists due to class imbalance. Seeing Mages throw up 600k+ Arcane Blasts makes me cry.
    Last edited by Forsedar; 2012-12-31 at 02:10 AM.

  16. #36
    comparing elemental to the 2 other classes i have leveled, paladin and warlock id say that they are far more enjoyable than warlock, warlock had the advantage (i lvl'ed as destro) that if you keep 4 embers up most players cannot even scratch you, and you blast m obs, once thats rolling you win it all and mo bs fall over like flies.
    Now comparing it to the horrors of retri pala lv ling elemental was god send, retri was from my experience capable of pulling 1-2 mobs and then rest up, then repeat, you c ouldnt reliably keep killing mobs without end as you simply didnt h ave the health or sustained dmg for. Mind you even with cd's stuff like hammer and templars verdict hit like wet noodles, whereas fulmination and lavaburst both hit quite decently.

    Conclusion on my part i think is that élemental could be so much more horrible and it would still work, and if you got health trouble i'm not really sure what to say except you arent keeping your gear up to zone, i heal maybe once in a while after pulls and if you use your tools correctly mobs will hardly ever touch you. and if they touch you, you got defensive cd's like thoose in the 1st talent tier or thoose in the 2nd last talent ti er.

    All in all you got plenty of tools as ele to make lvling smooth.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire Robula's Avatar
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    Elemental is especially weak before level 80 before you unlock the spec's Mastery: Elemental Overload... A lot of Elemental's damage comes from this. Leveling my Shaman from 85 to 90 when pretty quick, though not as quick or as efficient as my Shadow Priest which killed things a lot quicker and also had the perk of multi-dotting. Elemental has many flaws which you'll eventually come to discover.
    Last edited by Robula; 2012-12-31 at 07:34 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Robula View Post
    Elemental is especially weak before level 80 before you unlock the spec's Mastery: Elemental Overload... A lot of Elemental's damage comes from this. Leveling my Shaman from 85 to 90 when pretty quick, though not as quick or as efficient as my Shadow Priest which killed things a lot quicker and also had the perk of multi-dotting. Elemental has many flaws which you'll eventually come to discover.
    All classes/specs have their flaws, but elemental is not flawed in the leveling department at all. Literally not a fuck was given as i leveled elemental, pull 5 mobs? chain em down, pull 10? use totems/TS and chain em down, single mob? FS ans LvB should take care of this. All in all it was suuuuuper easy to level as ele, and as far as weakness, the only thing is sustained raid dmg which will be fine in 5.2.
    do what you feel.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    All classes/specs have their flaws, but elemental is not flawed in the leveling department at all. Literally not a fuck was given as i leveled elemental, pull 5 mobs? chain em down, pull 10? use totems/TS and chain em down, single mob? FS ans LvB should take care of this. All in all it was suuuuuper easy to level as ele, and as far as weakness, the only thing is sustained raid dmg which will be fine in 5.2.
    I don't know what kind of gear you leveled with, but just going with quest gear, I had a difficult time leveling. If I pulled 5 mobs, guess what? I died! If I pulled 10 mobs, they wouldn't get past half hp.

  20. #40
    be prepared to be laughed at in pvp.

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