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  1. #1

    Bored of my Rogue already

    Hey,

    I finished leveling my Rogue to 90 a few weeks ago, been playing Combat only, i tried the other specs too but i didnt like them that much.

    bottom line -> i'm bored of Rogues lol.


    seriously, between Keeping SnD up, RS up, and Rupture up, throwing an EV here and there, it's just not fun. (btw is this like the biggest spec you have to "keep up stuff"? are there any other specs that have to keep up 3 times in a time all the time? i got a Ret,an Enh Shammy, and a DK, and i know they dont, the frost DK has to manage only 2 but the frost d is refreshed automaticlly)
    even with the Adren rush and KS cooldowns, its just not not fun, i'm feeling like i'm SSing all the way.

    So, what do u guys think? isnt this the way Rogues were like forever? haven't been playing a Rogue for long in MoP but been in Wrath and Cata, and tbh i would like to give a huge salute to the people who have been SSing it since Vanilla, you guys got freaking nerves of steel

    share your thoughts?

    P.S. - this is not a QQing thread, just wanted to see if any1 else is bored out of SSing all the way to heaven...

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Vinho's Avatar
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    So has the rogue playstyle been since day 01.

    Assassination feels more exciting for me to play over Combat, but it's not much different at all. So much of our dmg comes from passive abilities that if you take a look at any sim we spend roughly half of our time waiting for energy.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster
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    Im not bored, i always loved my combat since i started it in tbc ( back then he was even good in pvp thanks to maces ).

    Now i like him more thanks to twinking my way to the top , for now my record is 124k dps without bl on normal boss fight ! .

  4. #4
    The stale rotations have been a complaint since Cataclysm, as far as I'm aware of.
    - Boring simplistic rotations
    - Boring simplistic cooldowns

    There's nothing engaging or difficult about rogue gameplay. If you don't like it now, I suggest you just reroll. It won't get any better.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    The stale rotations have been a complaint since Cataclysm, as far as I'm aware of.
    - Boring simplistic rotations
    - Boring simplistic cooldowns

    There's nothing engaging or difficult about rogue gameplay. If you don't like it now, I suggest you just reroll. It won't get any better.
    Still you got no idea how many combat rogues fail badly at it.

    A bit like wotlk's arcane mages ( ab + random am ), yet people managed to screw it up.

    Actually i havent encountered a rotation that is hard by far, maybe i am just too good for wow but still..

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Still you got no idea how many combat rogues fail badly at it.

    A bit like wotlk's arcane mages ( ab + random am ), yet people managed to screw it up.

    Actually i havent encountered a rotation that is hard by far, maybe i am just too good for wow but still..
    Likely true. But nonetheless, I for one haven't experienced a class as dull as rogues currently are. Complex rotations are rather subjective, but when you essentially have the same rotation, spread across 3 different specs, with very little variation in-between, dullness becomes a very obvious result. The most ground-breaking ability in our repertoire, in my opinion, is Shadow Dance, because it actually does something OTHER than simply increasing damage. Subtlety as a whole was our best spec, due to it being the only spec we had that didn't just give us great sustained dps, but also great burst potential. MOP took that from us, and homogenized rotations even further: Now all specs do not JUST want the same thing (maximize finisher usage) they all do it the same way as well(SND, Rupture, Eviscerate). Envenom is slightly unique, but not by any interesting margin.

    As a whole, the specs are just too similar, share too many abilities, produce results too similarly, and simply do not feel varied enough.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post

    Actually i havent encountered a rotation that is hard by far, maybe i am just too good for wow but still..
    I'm not saying the rotation is hard, its just the most annoying rotation in the game imo.
    keep 3 things up at a time, no refresh of anything, it sux. thats the pure definition of boring!!!

    something needs to change, BF is down by 75% that's something... NOT :P

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    If you really get down to it, most dps classes are boring after a while. The vast majority of them are just a matter of keeping up a few select buffs/debuffs and following a certain rotation of varying degrees of difficulty. It's not so much that your Rogue is getting boring as it is DPS is getting boring thanks to WoW dumbing down the classes.

    I've played Ele sham, all specs of mage, combat and mut rogue, frost and unholy dk and a ret pally in raiding environments and not a single one of them seemed any more complex or enthralling than the other after learning them.

    I would suggest rerolling a healer, as that has been the most fun I have had playing WoW. The triage/proactive style of it makes it more enthralling than the reactive style of DPS or Tanking for me.
    It's a shame I like my rogue and mage too much to go back to my holy pally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    The stale rotations have been a complaint since Cataclysm, as far as I'm aware of.
    - Boring simplistic rotations
    - Boring simplistic cooldowns

    There's nothing engaging or difficult about rogue gameplay. If you don't like it now, I suggest you just reroll. It won't get any better.
    This to me is the biggest misconception about rogues. An easy baseline rotation makes it easy to learn rogue, but it tells nothing about the difficulty of playing rogue well. A spec like combat has a very simple rotation, but once you make it past the first 75% of the learning curve it takes time to master all the subtle details. Things such as...

    Proper use of Anticipation; e.g. getting through low insight, maximizing Restless Blades, or better SnD refreshing
    Proper use of cooldowns; e.g. timing with Bandit's Guile, knowing when to save and when to use
    Proper positioning; e.g. maximizing Sprint/Shadowstep/Redirect for DPS uptime, staying in cleave range and outside of trouble

    Any of these are easy to learn in a vacuum, but when you want to master all of them, that's the difference between being any rogue and being a good rogue. I personally find that process highly engaging, but I doubt anyone who's truly mastered it would call it easy.
    Last edited by Lachtobi; 2012-12-26 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    This to me is the biggest misconception about rogues. An easy baseline rotation makes it easy to learn rogue, but it tells nothing about the difficulty of playing rogue well. A spec like combat has a very simple rotation, but once you make it past the first 75% of the learning curve it takes time to master all the subtle details. Things such as...

    Proper use of Anticipation; e.g. getting through low insight, maximizing Restless Blades, or better SnD refreshing
    Proper use of cooldowns; e.g. timing with Bandit's Guile, knowing when to save and when to use
    Proper positioning; e.g. maximizing Sprint/Shadowstep/Redirect for DPS uptime, staying in cleave range and outside of trouble

    Any of these are easy to learn in a vacuum, but when you want to master all of them, that's the difference between being any rogue and being a good rogue. And that is not easy.
    That, however, is more of a problem than a boon to the class.
    Don't get me wrong; utilizing and optimizing ability use in order to maximize efficiency is what separates the good player from the bad...
    Utilizing and using abilities efficiently in order to see minimal results, however, is disheartening and counter-intuitive.

    Waiting a couple of seconds in order to KS during red-insight doesn't grant you any noticeable advantage over the common rogue. Nor does the stacking of Anticipation charges, in order to unleash a flurry of finishers during red. We're not talking a good Combustion vs a bad one (which, incidentally, would make or break a Fire mage's dps). We're talking pathetic 5-or less % dps gain via PERFECT optimization. That's just not interesting or engaging enough. Fact is, as long as you push the builder and the finisher button, the rest of the dps-generation is generally on auto-pilot.

    "Easy to learn, hard to master" is not a bad concept to go by, but there's not exactly a universe of difference between a good rogue and a great one, which, I would say, robs a fair amount of the "fun-factor" from the gameplay. Back in Cataclysm, for instance, Sub was rather hard to play; maintaining all those buffs/debuffs, while carrying out the rotation wasn't an easy feat for those who weren't seasoned rogue players, but when done right, recount was made your bitch! I miss that... I really do.
    Last edited by Incineration; 2012-12-26 at 01:28 PM.

  11. #11
    I see what you're getting at, though I think the numbers are off. As part of a project to keep myself from throwing a tantrum every other LFR, I've made a mini-game of challenging equally geared rogues for a good old DPS race - the results so far have varied by a large margin beyond what ilvl could explain (and way beyond 5%).

    At any rate, I'm not too bothered about the margin between good and great; it's the process of becoming the latter, and finding new depths in specs to suit each situation, that intrigues me. Whether a scrub could potentially compete or not is less important - being an MMO, I get to choose who I play with.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome
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    I don't like Combat either. Try the two other specs. Assa is my favourite, but for pvp purposes, it has to be Sub, I just can't pvp as Assa.
    With Assa, you only have to worry about Rupture, as Slice and Dice is automatically refreshed with Envenom. Unless I'm completey wrong - haven't played wow for nearly two whole weeks and pve even longer.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenskap View Post
    I don't like Combat either. Try the two other specs. Assa is my favourite, but for pvp purposes, it has to be Sub, I just can't pvp as Assa.
    With Assa, you only have to worry about Rupture, as Slice and Dice is automatically refreshed with Envenom. Unless I'm completey wrong - haven't played wow for nearly two whole weeks and pve even longer.
    yeah, you are right. envenom refreshes slice and dice to its 5cp max so rupture is the only thing assassination worries about keeping active.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jhurley713 View Post
    yeah, you are right. envenom refreshes slice and dice to its 5cp max so rupture is the only thing assassination worries about keeping active.
    I find that rather strange, to be honest.
    Slice and Dice is trivial to keep up, but integral to your overall dps - having it is almost guaranteed, and a total necessity. However, this also hurts the spec unnecessarily whenever it cannot be refreshed in time(for instance, during the add-phase on Elegon). As a result you have to sacrifice about 80 energy just to get Slice up and running again; which is almost enough for an Envenom! Never mind the fact that it hurts the PvP viability of Assassination A LOT, seeing as it can be extremely difficult to even get off one Envenom on a moving target.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 05:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    I see what you're getting at, though I think the numbers are off. As part of a project to keep myself from throwing a tantrum every other LFR, I've made a mini-game of challenging equally geared rogues for a good old DPS race - the results so far have varied by a large margin beyond what ilvl could explain (and way beyond 5%).

    At any rate, I'm not too bothered about the margin between good and great; it's the process of becoming the latter, and finding new depths in specs to suit each situation, that intrigues me. Whether a scrub could potentially compete or not is less important - being an MMO, I get to choose who I play with.
    So far, I haven't encountered a similarly geared rogue who outperformed me by insane margins. Whenever I've been outperformed or have outperformed others, the difference could mainly be attributed to gear, spec, or the spec-on-encounter factor.

    I mentioned 5% because, if I'm not mistaken, that was the targeted number the devs were going for, according to an interview/post by GC. It was written a while ago (during beta I reckon) but I'll try to find it anyhow.

  15. #15
    I'm playing all kind of damage dealers since vanilla and I think there are only 2x2 flavours: casters/non casters x proc/non proc classes.
    Casters are the classes and specs which obviously cast, so that is their waiting time, the others are the ones who only (or mostly) use instant skills.
    Proc classes are classes that have procs and rely on them in their damage dealing. They usually got less stuff to "keep up", less debuffs, less selfbuffs.
    The non proc classes are classes, like rogue, which got no or almost no proccs and have to watch more buffs and debuffs.

    I like my rogue, because I feel in control with this class. I don't have to cross my fingers so much for proccs and with the energy/combo point system I can plan the fight ahead.

    Still I would like to see the passive damage focus go away.

  16. #16
    yawn yawn :O

    Infracted
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-12-27 at 06:21 AM.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Rickmagnus's Avatar
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    I've had a max level rogue since Vanilla and as it stands now I just have no motivation to level him to 90 now. I fooled around with him between 5.0 and MoP release and I just felt its to similar. I was thrilled assassination was made viable again but it was really just the same spec I've played before, not to mention looking at recount and seeing the vast majority of my damage was passive was kind of a downer. The sad thing is my rogue is probably the one class I play the best, but it's just the same thing its always been. I really think if any class could use a remake its rogues.
    "I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse."
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Issac Asimov

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickmagnus View Post
    I've had a max level rogue since Vanilla and as it stands now I just have no motivation to level him to 90 now. I fooled around with him between 5.0 and MoP release and I just felt its to similar. I was thrilled assassination was made viable again but it was really just the same spec I've played before, not to mention looking at recount and seeing the vast majority of my damage was passive was kind of a downer. The sad thing is my rogue is probably the one class I play the best, but it's just the same thing its always been. I really think if any class could use a remake its rogues.
    IMO, they should take out a lot of the passive damage (pretty much slice and dice) and replace it with stronger weapon strikes and finishers, and give each spec a new CP generating move with a CD that deals different damage and gives a different buff based on spec. Give assassination a strike that does pure poison damage and increase poison damage, combat it'll hit with both weapons and increase your haste like 50% for a couple seconds, subtlety it would maybe do a short, strong bleed and proc find weakness for 3-4 seconds. A rough draft off the top of my head, but I think it'd be something new to put in. The main obstacle for this I think would be PvP, cause people would probably start qqing about rogue burst in PvP again.

  19. #19
    Autoattack has to go, clearly outdated and dumb mechanic reminding me of rts games where u send your soldiers on enemy units to attack them and in the meanwhile you bring more troops/tanks...

  20. #20
    I enjoyed the way Subtlety played in Cata and was really looking forward to it when MoP dropped. But they ended up dumbing-down the spec and making it pretty horrible compared to the others damage wise. Combat is so-so and Mut is 90% passive damage.

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