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  1. #21
    The biggest problem for me currently is that after a slightly hard day at work I fall asleep waiting for energy as assa
    Combat I find a bit more difficult as there I can at least try and count the cp's for insight levels and such...

  2. #22
    i've been playing rogues since the very beginning of tbc but i guess i'm gonna reroll now. it's been a hard decision but it's no fun to play anymore. very sad

  3. #23
    The second they make the rotation harder ppl will complain about it being too hard or nerfed

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Angryst View Post
    I enjoyed the way Subtlety played in Cata and was really looking forward to it when MoP dropped. But they ended up dumbing-down the spec and making it pretty horrible compared to the others damage wise. Combat is so-so and Mut is 90% passive damage.
    Just wanted to hop in and say that this notion is simply false. Sub isn't horrible, its marginally behind Assa, and better than Combat for most fights. I know we lost Recup, but instead got Subterfuge and Feint (with Elusiveness) to manage.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    Just wanted to hop in and say that this notion is simply false. Sub isn't horrible, its marginally behind Assa, and better than Combat for most fights. I know we lost Recup, but instead got Subterfuge and Feint (with Elusiveness) to manage.
    Assuming Angryst was talking about PvE (in pvp I haven't heard anyone say sub's damage is "pretty horrible compared to the others"), losing recup is NOT countered at all. Elusiveness was stolen/improved from the passive AoE reduction/improved feint in the old sub tree, and feint now costs energy to use, rather than taking an unoccupied GCD alongside the (part of our rotation) healing of recup. Not sure how Subterfuge applies to this at all... subtlety lost all of the "perks" associated with raiding it had in cata except short-CD burst (ShD), but it still has the positional requirements.

    Agreed that the damage is not far behind though.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Assuming Angryst was talking about PvE (in pvp I haven't heard anyone say sub's damage is "pretty horrible compared to the others"), losing recup is NOT countered at all. Elusiveness was stolen/improved from the passive AoE reduction/improved feint in the old sub tree, and feint now costs energy to use, rather than taking an unoccupied GCD alongside the (part of our rotation) healing of recup. Not sure how Subterfuge applies to this at all... subtlety lost all of the "perks" associated with raiding it had in cata except short-CD burst (ShD), but it still has the positional requirements.

    Agreed that the damage is not far behind though.
    He said its boring because we lost Recup to manage, i said we have to manage Subterfuge and Feint now: we hadn't to before, Feint was for free, Subterfuge didnt exist. So his point that it's all so BORING and EASY now is kind of exaggerated. Sub in Cata was hard if you didnt know how to set up your ui around those timers.
    I know we lose our selfheal in Raids still. Im only talking gameplay though.

  7. #27
    Well you play combat which is the most boring spec rogues have, and you dont like the other 2 sooooo uh reroll like pretty much every other rogue out there...

  8. #28
    @Nouk

    Ahh I thought you were commenting on it being "pretty horrible" and saying that instead of losing power we'd gotten more around the edges. Sorry for misreading you :P

  9. #29
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    A very common complaint from rogues is that class is far too passive. By that, many mean that the playstyle is engaging and that the majority of our dps comes from maintaining boring buffs or debuffs.

    Combat is as mentioned.

    Assassination has very large gaps of standing there waiting for energy and praying for good RNG on your venomous wounds, however, during execute the playstyle is significantly improved and feels much more fluid.

    Subtelty, whilst horredously gutted from Cataclysm in my opinion, remains the spec that has the most to watch for; Honor Amongst Theives procs, slice and dice, rupture, haemorrhage, pooling energy I believe is still a dps gain depsite Anticipation (though I'd need to check that). On top of that, the way to maximise subs dps is still all down to your up time on Find Weakness which in turn dictates that good up time on Shadow Dance and stealth are key.

    Subtlety is still the most enjoyable spec, I'd suggest trying it out before giving up. It's also completely viable to have Shuriken Toss as a combo point builder creating a very fast paced play style. However, whilst viable, it is still a dps loss over backstab (unsure come 5.2).
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