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  1. #21
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    @theWocky

    I don't think you understand how much work that is...
    With all due respect, I don't think you've ever played anything else except WoW or seen how much quicker other mmo's do this (with seemingly little effort). You also apparently have little to no programming knowledge. You can adjust any part of the code at any time and make it behave differently. It is not a house where you remove the bottom and it all crumbles. It will, in all likelyhood, be object-orientated. WoW is not written in friggin' COBOL.

    As for this:
    "And other newer MMOs can do thing more quickly because their foundations of the game support it as of WoW's don't. WoW was made at a time where you don't add new features"

    The solution is simple - fix it. Add the tools necessary, work on the engine. That is a very lame excuse and smacks of fan-boyism and identifies with my point regarding the mindset of people that "are happy" with what blizzard gives them: "this is the best we can expect, so we should be grateful for what they can do". That is not acceptable.

    If the foundation is crappy as you seem to admit and they don't intend to fix it, I'll rather sub to something that is not rather than get stuck in a rut forever with de je vu - which is also the original poster's point.

    I am amused that you basically call the engine old and essentially "crap", go so far as to actually make excuses for it and we should be happy with what we have. Seriously? this is ok?
    Last edited by theWocky; 2012-12-26 at 09:40 AM.
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  2. #22
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    I think the solution they will aim for is an account-wide bank vault, similar to the storage chest in Diablo 3.

    If they could introduce account-wide gold pools along with this, I'd be tres heureux.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  3. #23
    Step 1: Make A Heirlooms an "achievement" on its own, Kind of like the Pet battle Achieve Page, Once you buy them once you gain the "achievement" but have it reward no points just the gear so people don't feel the need to grind it.

    Step 2: Make an "Heirloom Bifröst" Vendor (Bifröst fits since they will be moving between Realms, and can be linked to the Titans because of Norse mythology influence)

    Step 3: Make the Items cost nothing from this Vendor since you already have bought them once, but only obtainable once you have the Account bound-achievement much like Field Marshal gear being only available once you have the Field Marshal Achievement.

    Step 4: ???

    Step 5 Profit.

    And there is your answer. Everything in these steps is already currently in place in the game and has no "Technical Hurdles". Seems more like Blizzards way of making people Stay Subscribed longer by having to level new Characters slower, or being greedy by wanting to force people to Sever xfer to send heirlooms to a new server they wish to play on.

  4. #24
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    Step 1: Make A Heirlooms an "achievement" on its own, Kind of like the Pet battle Achieve Page, Once you buy them once you gain the "achievement" but have it reward no points just the gear so people don't feel the need to grind it.

    Step 2: Make an "Heirloom Bifröst" Vendor (Bifröst fits since they will be moving between Realms, and can be linked to the Titans because of Norse mythology influence)

    Step 3: Make the Items cost nothing from this Vendor since you already have bought them once, but only obtainable once you have the Account bound-achievement much like Field Marshal gear being only available once you have the Field Marshal Achievement.

    Step 4: ???

    Step 5 Profit.

    And there is your answer. Everything in these steps is already currently in place in the game and has no "Technical Hurdles". Seems more like Blizzards way of making people Stay Subscribed longer by having to level new Characters slower, or being greedy by wanting to force people to Sever xfer to send heirlooms to a new server they wish to play on.
    Again, this contravenes the system of one purchase = one item. Blizzard clearly does not want an account full of 49 shaman alts with heirlooms.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  5. #25
    Mail and the transfer of items i could see as being a difficult hurdle but i have heard mentioned a interface option that would take note when you bought a item one of the boa pieces and would clear you for obtaining the item on any realm would be a lot more reasonable for them to create . Without a doubt they as a company make more money to not fix this small PR flare that has the attention of very few people but in all honesty i think a non combat pet like the cinder kitten made them more money in a hour than disgruntled people transfering alts loaded with boa's did all year . Love when they gave us 1 more character per realm like really 1 more ... i have been playing for 7 years and ended up deleting a toon with heroic dragon soul kills (which doesn't say much.) but more than anything yes the just stop with the requests we are not gonna do anything so just shutup type feedback was less than in the holiday spirit .

  6. #26
    Warchief Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keilith View Post
    See I would understand that except they said technical hurdles. They wont be honest and say either

    A) We dont wanna we are focused on other things

    B) We would rather you load your heirlooms on an alt and pay for a transfer.



    See with current system in place CRZ, Account achivements, battle pets, and many things that use the entire account is it really a technical hurdle to add in a Heirloom bank or drop down menu? Load an heirloom onto it and nothing else.


    (Edit post)

    They do have the tech btw D3 your stash, set, match, game.
    OH THANK GOD... I was really hoping someone would bring this up. You have brightened my evening.

    Now then, let me blow your mind... Get ready, because the chair umpire just overruled your win.

    The reason it works within Diablo 3 is because all of your characters are housed on the same server. They don't have to worry about sending items across different servers.

    Want to see it in action? Try this. Create a US based account and then an EU based account. Obtain items on the US account, and then log in to the EU account. You won't find the contents of your US characters on your EU account. This would be as close as you can come to cross server in the Diablo code.

    As for the honesty part... If Blizzard came out and said exactly what it would take, while simultaneously opening their internal code base to the public (which is something game companies try not to do), would you have the faintest clue what they are talking about? They use general terms like "numerous technical hurdles" so they don't confuse the community.

    Also, to your point of making a bank or a drop down menu. While that sounds like an easy solution to you and me, Blizzard has said that they don't want things to look half assed and just thrown together. Maybe Blizzard is taking extra time to not only deal with actual code limitations, but to also make something that doesn't look like an intern did it in 20 minutes.

    There are so many factors that go in to this, that to the untrained masses, we couldn't comprehend what is behind it. All people can do is bitch about how long it takes. Which is fine if that's what you want to do.


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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    No, it isnt easy, but it sure as hell wouldnt need several years to work. sending heirlooms doesnt "need" to be through mail. we have xrealm mounts, pets, achievements, they could move heirlooms from items to itembuffs, usable through interface like mounts and voila, let two interns internally work on it for couple of months and you are done.
    I didn't say it would need years to make it happen but again it isn't as easy as you think. As said you could use the achievement system to get the items to every toon but then every toon would get every heirloom you purchased so that a priest would get plate and leather and so on and when you get all heirlooms by mail a lot of people will probably feel forced to use them on a new character. So it's possible but it would be a dirty solution to the problem.

    Usable interface. You could do that to create items (like the caged pets) and that are then removed from that list. So the question would be, how do I add items to the interface? Right click will equip the item and holding down a modifier key is probably too complicated for players. So you would have to add a slot where you put the item and suddenly you have something completely new where nobody knows if that is possible.

    Itembuffs instead of items. How should these buffs work? A combination from the challenge mode buff that alters your itemlevel and an experience buff? What will happen to low level balancing when you apply an itemlevel buff to your equipped items? You would again need to swap items in and out to get the stats you need and I can see a lot of balancing issues. Experience buff should be easier to balance.

    As you see they could make it happen but new problems would appear and it would still not solve the problem that you can't mail other characters on other realms so only a small percentage from the people moaning will stop.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Again, this contravenes the system of one purchase = one item. Blizzard clearly does not want an account full of 49 shaman alts with heirlooms.
    Blizzard also says the game is not balanced around low levels, I see no reason why someone having multiple lvl 49's with Heirlooms should even matter. They are Worthless past lvl 80/85 so what is the real gamebreaking feature of being able to have multiple Heirlooms on Alts.

  9. #29
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    Blizzard also says the game is not balanced around low levels, I see no reason why someone having multiple lvl 49's with Heirlooms should even matter. They are Worthless past lvl 80/85 so what is the real gamebreaking feature of being able to have multiple Heirlooms on Alts.
    The less time we spend farming JPs for heirlooms, the less time we spend actually in game. Theoretically.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  10. #30
    From a programmer's standpoint:

    Easiest solution that comes to mind (far from optimal, but works), is to make a small app/website feature that lets you take certain BoA items from one character and adds them to a different character of yours. They already have API to pull items from game DB to the website, destroying and recreating items is already (obviously) there too. This would take me, a single programer, a week of work tops.

    From Blizzard's standpoint (can only guess):
    We think our players are too stupid to use features described above. We need to come up with as simple tool as possible.

  11. #31
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    From a programmer's standpoint:

    Easiest solution that comes to mind (far from optimal, but works), is to make a small app/website feature that lets you take certain BoA items from one character and adds them to a different character of yours. They already have API to pull items from game DB to the website, destroying and recreating items is already (obviously) there too. This would take me, a single programer, a week of work tops.

    From Blizzard's standpoint (can only guess):
    We think our players are too stupid to use features described above. We need to come up with as simple tool as possible.
    When you have more than ten million players, it's best to design such features with morons in mind. Sad but true.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    Sadly, this is one of the things that upset me most about WoW, the slow patch cycles, the lack of post max-level content in Cataclysm. It's when I just gave up and lost faith in WoW. The promises that became "let-downs" (eg path of titans), the seeming inability to fix seemingly simple things (character models, graphics). The excuses about "not having enough resources" - which is friggin' ludicrous.

    Judging by my new experiences, some other mmo's just get on with it and "do it" in a hotfix or a content patch. I love WoW, but just can't stand to be treated like a person who should be grateful for anything I get given - and not a paying customer who pays for service. I have experienced both now and I truly understand and appreciate the difference.
    Do you really need to come to every thread that is negative about WoW and wave your Rift flag?

    Can you imagine how YOU would fell if people did that in the rift forums?

    Can we PLEASE not turn every single thread into a game vs game thread.

    You also make is sound like Rift does EVERY SINGLE thing the players want you do know this not true right?

    Games vs game posts are not allowed for a reasons and almost every single post you make in the wow section is "Look how amazing Rift is and how crap WoW is" (you do know we can see through your "other game" comments right? when your signature is all "OMFG RIFT IS AMAZING!!!!!!! OMFG")
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2012-12-26 at 10:08 AM. Reason: spelling!

  13. #33
    Warchief Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    Sadly, this is one of the things that upset me most about WoW, the slow patch cycles, the lack of post max-level content in Cataclysm. It's when I just gave up and lost faith in WoW. The promises that became "let-downs" (eg path of titans), the seeming inability to fix seemingly simple things (character models, graphics). The excuses about "not having enough resources" - which is friggin' ludicrous.
    Couple things I would love to ask you about if you don't mind me digging.

    You call out the lack of post max-level content in Cataclysm as a reason that you gave up and lost faith in WoW. What were you looking for specifically? What would you want to see in a post max-level environment? Say, if you had full creative control. I would also ask, was there a difference in post max-level content in BC and Wrath? Thinking back to both BC and Wrath (and being max level for both well before the end of the expansion) All I did was raid. Now, I didn't clear Sunwell during BC, though I cleared everything else in terms of raiding. I did clear all that Wrath had to offer in terms of raiding save for the last minute Ruby Sanctum. Past that, PvP was the only other post max-level thing I could think of to do. Reason I bring this up, is because it was exactly the same during Cataclysm. I'm not trying to give you grief about your experience, I am more interested in what you were expecting.

    Another thing you call out are the promises that became "let-downs". Specifically, you call out Path of Titans... but one could include the dance studio in that mix too. I ask you, do you remember what Path of Titans was rumored to be? If memory serves me correctly it was going to be a type of player progression tied to the titans via Archeology. That does sound pretty cool, I have to admit. However, it was replaced by a combination of the Prime Glyphs and Guild leveling. To me, the idea was still there, it just wasn't given to us in the way Blizzard had originally intended. I guess, I wouldn't call that a let down persay. I would call it a re-imaging if you will. With all that said, I will give you the dance studio failure. I was looking forward to that for sure.

    Finally, you call out things that are "seemingly simple things" (character models and graphics specifically). You and I are going to disagree about the simplicity of these two things. In terms of WoW, it would require a full remodel of the characters at their very foundation. This is where newer games have the advantage. Take Rift for example. It was able to start with character models that look fantastic. It didn't have to start with older models and them completely redesign and re-rig them. What I mean, is that Trion doesn't have to budget for updated character models because it was able to start with them. This might sound dickish of me, but give Rift a couple of years. Players are going to see newer games with even more complex skeletal structures and ask Trion to update theirs. I am willing to bet that they will give the same response Blizzard is currently giving their community. It's the same with the Graphics. Though, when I run WoW at Ultra, I think it looks amazing (save for the water that sometimes looks like Jello :P)

    I probably come off as a Blizzard Fanboy or a White Knight by saying what I have, but hopefully you will see that I am merely inquisitive. Also trust in the fact that I am not ripping on Rift at all. I'm just using it as an example as it's what you are currently playing (if I had to venture a guess).

    I will be interested to hear your responses ^_^


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  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    I just wish they'd make void storage cross-character and cross-realm. That'd solve a ton of problems

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    With all due respect, I don't think you've ever played anything else except WoW or seen how much quicker other mmo's do this (with seemingly little effort). You also apparently have little to no programming knowledge. You can adjust any part of the code at any time and make it behave differently. It is not a house where you remove the bottom and it all crumbles. It will, in all likelyhood, be object-orientated. WoW is not written in friggin' COBOL.

    As for this:
    "And other newer MMOs can do thing more quickly because their foundations of the game support it as of WoW's don't. WoW was made at a time where you don't add new features"

    The solution is simple - fix it. Add the tools necessary, work on the engine. That is a very lame excuse and smacks of fan-boyism and identifies with my point regarding the mindset of people that "are happy" with what blizzard gives them: "this is the best we can expect, so we should be grateful for what they can do". That is not acceptable.

    If the foundation is crappy as you seem to admit and they don't intend to fix it, I'll rather sub to something that is not rather than get stuck in a rut forever with de je vu - which is also the original poster's point.

    I am amused that you basically call the engine old and essentially "crap", go so far as to actually make excuses for it and we should be happy with what we have. Seriously? this is ok?
    Yes you can but as you should know as you seem to have programmed things changing one part of the code can affect how other parts of the code behave so that you need to change that part too and so on. When you want to add a new feature you need to make sure that the new code will work with the old one or you have to rework the old code to be compatible with the new one.

    It is possible to do but it will take time. Also all your saying of fix it just isn't as easy as you say it is (and therefore I think you don't know a thing about programming) because it needs a lot of work. It would probably be easier to just throw everything in the garbage and do it again which would mean to just add new content to the game for 3-4 years (or with the way we know Blizzard make it more like 5-6 years) and you have a new framework where you can work the way you want.

    I never said that it's impossible to change things and that it's ok to only have what we have but I said that it's a lot of work and won't happen in a short time. In games like Rift you get content and new features so fast because that's the way the game was designed to be. When you want to change that it will take time and when you're unhappy with WoW then don't play it. But just saying "fix it" only shows how little you know about games in general. That's like saying "people are starving in Africa? Give them food. Problem solved".

  16. #36
    Really all they have to do is make heirlooms feat of strength achievements that act like Blizzcon pets / mounts where they get mailed to every character on an account.

    They just don't want to do something like that.

  17. #37
    Trying to get back on topic.

    I wish they would implement Diablo style Shared cache for moving around items realm to realm.

    You could only put BoA items in the cache.

    I think the "Technical Limitations" are to do with the way Database Storage and Structure was originally designed not really the code (I am a DBA in rl)

    For sure it could be changed but its not just "oh look I adjust one line of code and we have Cross Realm heirlooms".

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    Yes you can but as you should know as you seem to have programmed things changing one part of the code can affect how other parts of the code behave so that you need to change that part too and so on. When you want to add a new feature you need to make sure that the new code will work with the old one or you have to rework the old code to be compatible with the new one.
    They do that all the time. Remember all those things that glitch out of nowhere? A quest that has been working since the dawn of time, suddently broken after a minor patch? Well, functionality of a class changed, so they have to go and make sure the old functionality is not still in use somewhere. This is not a lengthy process.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    With all due respect, I don't think you've ever played anything else except WoW or seen how much quicker other mmo's do this (with seemingly little effort). You also apparently have little to no programming knowledge. You can adjust any part of the code at any time and make it behave differently. It is not a house where you remove the bottom and it all crumbles. It will, in all likelyhood, be object-orientated. WoW is not written in friggin' COBOL.

    As for this:
    "And other newer MMOs can do thing more quickly because their foundations of the game support it as of WoW's don't. WoW was made at a time where you don't add new features"

    The solution is simple - fix it. Add the tools necessary, work on the engine. That is a very lame excuse and smacks of fan-boyism and identifies with my point regarding the mindset of people that "are happy" with what blizzard gives them: "this is the best we can expect, so we should be grateful for what they can do". That is not acceptable.

    If the foundation is crappy as you seem to admit and they don't intend to fix it, I'll rather sub to something that is not rather than get stuck in a rut forever with de je vu - which is also the original poster's point.

    I am amused that you basically call the engine old and essentially "crap", go so far as to actually make excuses for it and we should be happy with what we have. Seriously? this is ok?
    You can program in COBOL using OOP

    But I agree. This is the lamest excuse I've ever seen. I don't understand why they can't make something like an account wide bank that only allows you to deposit BoA gear. I'd be surprised if it took more than 1 week to make it.

    Yes you can but as you should know as you seem to have programmed things changing one part of the code can affect how other parts of the code behave so that you need to change that part too and so on
    Then they should learn the concept of encapsulation. That is one of the most important part of OOP.
    Last edited by Thyranne; 2012-12-26 at 10:28 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    You can program in COBOL using OOP

    But I agree. This is the lamest excuse I've ever seen. I don't understand why they can't make something like an account wide bank that only allows you to deposit BoA gear. I'd be surprised if it took more than 1 week to make it.
    I am interested to know where you pulling this number from?

    Do you have experience dealing with application development on monster applications (I do and I can't even begin to imagine what the WoW code base and database structure looks like).

    Or is it just made up fantasy number?

    If it was easy don't you think they would of done it by now?

    Or is all this tinfoil hat "OMG they want us to server x-fer to get Heirlooms across"?

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