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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Knaar View Post
    My guess is the OP dont really know much about programming....
    Its not as simple as just write a line that say copy this to server X and remove item from server Y. That "line" will most likely ends up a couple hundred lines of codes if not thousand. But thats only for the transfert... Next they have to include this codes in the game itself and that can lead to mannnnnnys issues.

    So yeah, in short, the biggest part is programming it but that takes a hell lot of time.
    I never did any game programming, just basic stuff and it would sometime takes me dozens of hours just to find a bug over a 50 pages long prog... i cant even imagine how big wow's code is :')
    My guess is that YOU don't really know much about programming. It's not some magic ritual when you need to draw magic circle and then wait months for it to power up. You just sit down and write code. This feature realistically should take about month to implement and maximum of 3 people to implement and test: programmer, UI designer and tester. Yes, that obviously includes all of DB side, UI and testing/QA.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Trying to get back on topic.

    I wish they would implement Diablo style Shared cache for moving around items realm to realm.

    You could only put BoA items in the cache.

    I think the "Technical Limitations" are to do with the way Database Storage and Structure was originally designed not really the code (I am a DBA in rl)

    For sure it could be changed but its not just "oh look I adjust one line of code and we have Cross Realm heirlooms".
    Though the diablo 3 system works because all your toons are on the one server.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I am interested to know where you pulling this number from?

    Do you have experience dealing with application development on monster applications (I do and I can't even begin imagine when the WoW code and database structure looks like).

    Or is it just made up fantasy number?

    If it was easy don't you think they would of done it by now?

    Or is all this tinfoil hat "OMG they want us to server x-fer to get Heirlooms across"?
    It really depends on how well written the game is (I would imagine they have a code optimalisation team) and how well the programmers can navigate in the structure. Of course they would probably do things differently now, but it's kinda late to scratch half of the engine.

    Either way, I do agree that this could not take long. Maybe not a week, depends on how many people would be put on it. Two people would get it done by 5.3. I'm pretty sure of that.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    Though the diablo 3 system works because all your toons are on the one server.
    It sure does (that was my entire point!)

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    I suppose it's possible, just possible, that the reason we can't mail anything cross realm has to do with technical limitations of the game. I know!!! It's crazy!!!
    i bet it has nothing to do with astronomic character transfer prices

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I am interested to know where you pulling this number from?
    I'm a programmer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Do you have experience dealing with application development on monster applications (I do and I can't even begin to imagine what the WoW code base and database structure looks like).
    Yes. My biggest project that I've ever worked is a system that receives tons and tons of data from over 200 different cities. It receives, validates and add them to our database (which has over 350 tables) and like 6tb. Only 6 people worked on it and took us 4 months (or 5) to finish it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Or is it just made up fantasy number?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    If it was easy don't you think they would of done it by now?
    Answer:
    OMG they want us to server x-fer to get Heirlooms across.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    It really depends on how well written the game is (I would imagine they have a code optimalisation team) and how well the programmers can navigate in the structure. Of course they would probably do things differently now, but it's kinda late to scratch half of the engine.

    Either way, I do agree that this could not take long. Maybe not a week, depends on how many people would be put on it. Two people would get it done by 5.3. I'm pretty sure of that.
    Yep I could agree with that for sure.

    From a technical point of view this is one of the reasons I am most excited about Titan.

    I would really like to know what WoW would look like now if at the start they had all the knowledge they have accumulated over the last 8 years.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Do you have any idea the tech required to do such a thing? Cause I sure as hell don't. The simple answer is how much work does it take versus how useful it is. It is NOT a priority, they have a lot more stuff to worry about than people who want to save a few hours leveling alts.
    Yes, I do. If you can get a RAF mount and select which toon and on which realm to send it to through battle.net, there is absolutely no reason they can't do the same thing for heirlooms. They have a system that can handle it, they just make excuses that they'd have to make it an in game system because the current one that can process these transactions is already making them hefty sums with paid character transfers for the sake of the heirlooms.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Yes. My biggest project that I've ever worked is a system that receives tons and tons of data from over 200 different cities. It receives, validates and add them to our database (which has over 350 tables) and like 6tb. Only 6 people worked on it and took us 4 months (or 5) to finish it.
    No disrespect but do you think your project really compares to 8 years of development of WoW?

    Your project took 2 1/2 years man time, not sure how you then correlate cross realm heirloom will take 1 week (with not a single bit of knowledge about what the code and data structure looks like).

    I have been in many a development planning meeting where people ask for what seems the simplest thing but the cascade effect is high.

    You can keep your tinfoil hat on if you like it does not bother me, but we will have to respectfully disagree I am afraid
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2012-12-26 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Strange Posting Error!

  10. #50
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    Do you know how time consuming and difficult it can be to put a game together? All the coding that is involved? I don't - and I'm guessing you don't either, unless you can tell me you've worked in game development before.

    Yes it may not take that long to make these specific changes, or maybe it would, WE DON'T KNOW and nor can we assume because we don't work with the systems and coding that is involved with it and I'm sure no one on these forums has either.

    There are other priorities they are working on at the moment (future patches, future expansion, bug fixes, new models, etc etc). I get that not everyone on their team is working on the same projects, but I'm sure they all have priorities they have to attend to before something like this. For me, I don't care about heirlooms. I can level an alt without them. Yes it will take a bit longer, but I don't care. I can see from their point of view how this isn't of utter importance at the moment but at least they are acknowledging requests for it.

    Patience is still a virtue but it seems many people have very little of it now-a-days. And for those who said they aren't happy with the service the company is providing, then don't pay Blizz your money anymore, it's just that simple.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    No disrespect but do you think your project really compares to 8 years of development of WoW?
    What else do you want? How about country-scale realtime billing system, BMMORPG with 10 years of development and highload ad serving platform with billions of hits per day and 15+ years in development? Enough for you? 8 years in development for WoW only tells me that they have pretty lazy or inexperienced programmers, who had to waste 8 years just to get to today level.

    But nooooo, I know nothing of programming, so I baaaah-lieve in whatever gurus at Blizzard say. Yes, taking a single record from one storage and re-importing it somewhere else takes no less than several years to develop.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 03:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Liliannan View Post
    Do you know how time consuming and difficult it can be to put a game together? All the coding that is involved? I don't - and I'm guessing you don't either, unless you can tell me you've worked in game development before.
    If you don't, then please just don't state your uninformed and completely off opinion at all.

    WE DON'T KNOW
    YOU don't know. WE, who spent half of life in programming, do.
    Last edited by rowaasr13; 2012-12-26 at 12:44 PM.

  12. #52
    As a temporary work around they could always use the existing system that is in place when you buy a boa pet or mount from the online store. As soon as the transaction is completed, the item magically appears in the mail box of all your characters, on every realm.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by thatcrazypenguin View Post
    regarding mailing of heirlooms to other realms the blue response is basically `unlikely it'll be implemented during Mists of Pandaria as there're numerous technical hurdles that need to be overcome first in order to happen.`

    How many more things are they going to blame `numerous technical hurdles` as the reason not to do, it seems like its getting like a standard blizzard response to many things, I mean are their staff poorly skilled and trained or something? because it seems to me theres a hell of a lot they blame on `technical hurdles`.....the solution would be to get people who know what they are doing more on the technical side surly? unless such a response is just put out as a `fob you off` excuse as I rather suspect it is.
    Last year, or maybe the year before, there was a very long blue post on what was actually involved in moving an item, mainly to do with the work involved in adding a brand new item to someone's inventory in the new realm. It is not a magic process, programmers do not just click their fingers and the code is done. The amount of work needed for the small number of people who want to use it is not worth it tbh. You delay new things in game that millions will enjoy for something that a handful want, bad economics for a company.
    So, you want something moving, make a level 10, put it in their bank and pay to move them. If it is important enough for you, you will do that. If you do not, it is not that important.

  14. #54
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    No need to mail anything anywhere.

    Make heirlooms into spells which you learn, which go into your spell book, for example in their own heirloom tab. When casting the heirloom spell, a unique soulbound heirloom item will appear in the character's inventory, if there's space for it. Now just give that heirloom tab to all characters on the account.

    People don't tend to buy the same heirloom more than once anyway, so the cost in honor/justice/gold shouldn't be a problem.

    I mean, we have account-wide achievements. Can't be that difficult to make account-wide spells, can it?
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    No disrespect but do you think your project really compares to 8 years of development of WoW?
    Of course it compares, it affects more people than WoW does. A single mistake and a city will have to pay millions and millions of dollars. The system exists to decrease the waste of money and corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Your project took 2 1/2 years man time, not sure how you then correlate cross realm heirloom will take 1 week (with not a single bit of knowledge about what the code and data structure looks like).
    You don't measure a code based on the time it took to be developed or the amount of lines it has (otherwise COBOL would be the most awesome thing that has ever existed which in my opinion is exactly the opposite).

    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I have been in many a development planning meeting where people ask for what seems the simplest thing but the cascade effect is high.
    Have you ever written anything in a programming language? Do you really think that programming is like black magic and luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    You can keep your tinfoil hat on if you like it does not bother me
    Ok.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    What else do you want? How about country-scale billing system, BMMORPG with 10 years of development and highload ad serving platform with billions of hits per day and 15+ years in development? Enough for you? 8 years in development for WoW only tells me that they have pretty lazy or inexperienced programmers, who had to waste 8 years just to get to today level.

    But nooooo, I know nothing of programming, so I baaaah-lieve in whatever gurus at Blizzard say. Yes, taking a single record from one storage and re-importing it somewhere else takes no less than several years to develop.
    Oh come on.

    Tinfoil hat much?

    Who said anything about years to develop? I am saying it is very possible, but you know in a project there are things called "priorities".

    If you did have that much experience you will 100% know that there are things that seem simple that really are not.

    The thing I can 100% guarantee is that me or you have ZERO NADA NOTHING knowledge of what WoWs code and database structure looks like.

    It all comes down to this.

    You think they are lying (when saying there is technical issues) or you do not.

    If you think they are lying vote with your wallet just stop paying and move on?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    but Cross Realm Zones wasn't technical limited?, i see, only sending an item is hard to do. what about Real ID, they said that was impossible too (well almost impossible) they made that too, i really can't see how sending an item is more technical than those 2 i just mentioned.
    Aye. The only technical limitation is their ability to allow themselves to think outside the box on this one. If we have account wide achievements, account wide mounts/pets, and reward items like the perky pug that for years were mailed to toons on an account once they had an achievement... they could implement cross realm heirlooms if they wanted to.

    They just need to make a basic change in the way heirlooms are handled and realize the fact that 2 or more of the exact same heirloom doesn't provide any benefit besides having to visit a mail box less often.

    Instead of purchasing a heirloom as a item... you purchase a heirloom achievement (or just give a achievement for purchasing each heirloom). That achievement then either allows all characters with that achievement to pickup (buy) their copy of that heirloom or just mails it to them.
    Last edited by openair; 2012-12-26 at 12:14 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Oh come on.

    Tinfoil hat much?

    Who said anything about years to develop? I am saying it is very possible, but you know in a project there are things called "priorities".

    If you did have that much experience you will 100% know that there are things that seem simple that really are not.

    The thing I can 100% guarantee is that me or you have ZERO NADA NOTHING knowledge of what WoWs code and database structure looks like.


    It all comes down to this.

    You think they are lying (when saying there is technical issues) or you do not.

    If you think they are lying vote with your wallet just stop paying and move on?
    Here, this is how WoW works:

    https://github.com/arcemu/arcemu/tree/master/src

    But nooooo, I know nothing of programming, so I baaaah-lieve in whatever gurus at Blizzard say. Yes, taking a single record from one storage and re-importing it somewhere else takes no less than several years to develop.
    You'd not even need to import things, just create a new table in the same database that they store our account wide achievements and create a bank that lists/deposits item in that table. I really don't know why some people here think that it'd take months to do it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Have you ever written anything in a programming language? Do you really think that programming is like black magic and luck.
    Yes strangely I have, I have been in software design, development and coding for over 20 years now, thanks for asking.

    I have been in many meetings where we are discussing change and the knock on of that change is very high or requires much more work than what it sounds like.

    If you have never been in a meeting like that then yes I think you have been programming by black magic and luck.

    Keep your tinfoil hat on or don't it up to you, you either think they are lying or not.

  20. #60
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    If you don't, then please just don't state your uninformed and completely off opinion at all.

    YOU don't know. WE, who spent half of life in programming, do.
    So you're telling me you've worked for Blizzard on WoW programming and development? And that you know how their programming and systems work? Okay - if you have then I'll credit some of what you have to say. But if you haven't, then you sir don't have any more right to comment than me

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