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  1. #1

    anyone else getting deja vu with the latest blizzard blue posts.....

    regarding mailing of heirlooms to other realms the blue response is basically `unlikely it'll be implemented during Mists of Pandaria as there're numerous technical hurdles that need to be overcome first in order to happen.`

    How many more things are they going to blame `numerous technical hurdles` as the reason not to do, it seems like its getting like a standard blizzard response to many things, I mean are their staff poorly skilled and trained or something? because it seems to me theres a hell of a lot they blame on `technical hurdles`.....the solution would be to get people who know what they are doing more on the technical side surly? unless such a response is just put out as a `fob you off` excuse as I rather suspect it is.

  2. #2
    I suppose it's possible, just possible, that the reason we can't mail anything cross realm has to do with technical limitations of the game. I know!!! It's crazy!!!

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Do you have any idea the tech required to do such a thing? Cause I sure as hell don't. The simple answer is how much work does it take versus how useful it is. It is NOT a priority, they have a lot more stuff to worry about than people who want to save a few hours leveling alts.
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  4. #4
    My guess is the OP dont really know much about programming....
    Its not as simple as just write a line that say copy this to server X and remove item from server Y. That "line" will most likely ends up a couple hundred lines of codes if not thousand. But thats only for the transfert... Next they have to include this codes in the game itself and that can lead to mannnnnnys issues.

    So yeah, in short, the biggest part is programming it but that takes a hell lot of time.
    I never did any game programming, just basic stuff and it would sometime takes me dozens of hours just to find a bug over a 50 pages long prog... i cant even imagine how big wow's code is :')

  5. #5
    Brewmaster Salech's Avatar
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    but Cross Realm Zones wasn't technical limited?, i see, only sending an item is hard to do. what about Real ID, they said that was impossible too (well almost impossible) they made that too, i really can't see how sending an item is more technical than those 2 i just mentioned.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Knaar View Post
    My guess is the OP dont really know much about programming....
    Its not as simple as just write a line that say copy this to server X and remove item from server Y. That "line" will most likely ends up a couple hundred lines of codes if not thousand. But thats only for the transfert... Next they have to include this codes in the game itself and that can lead to mannnnnnys issues.

    So yeah, in short, the biggest part is programming it but that takes a hell lot of time.
    I never did any game programming, just basic stuff and it would sometime takes me dozens of hours just to find a bug over a 50 pages long prog... i cant even imagine how big wow's code is :')

    See I would understand that except they said technical hurdles. They wont be honest and say either

    A) We dont wanna we are focused on other things

    B) We would rather you load your heirlooms on an alt and pay for a transfer.



    See with current system in place CRZ, Account achivements, battle pets, and many things that use the entire account is it really a technical hurdle to add in a Heirloom bank or drop down menu? Load an heirloom onto it and nothing else.


    (Edit post)

    They do have the tech btw D3 your stash, set, match, game.

  7. #7
    The main problem that people lose sight of is the internal infrastructure of how WoW (or any project, software or not). Not every feature that they want, that the community wants, or that is implemented is immediately compatible with it. Often times, the project will have to be renovated and reworked to include a feature (which is what is meant by when an expansion "overhauls" a set of features). So when they want to implement something, they have to take a look at what all will be impacted by it.

    If the systems in place are not immediately compatible with it (ie: not built with this feature in mind) then it is entirely likely that technical hurdles will be present. This could include anything from figuring out work-arounds to get it up and running all the way to having to cut other implemented features because of conflicts. And of course, with any change if the benefit is not on par with the cost it will get shelved for a rainy day.

    So yes, you will see this "excuse" a lot because it is the best way to represent the problems without unnecessarily showing what is going on internally.
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  8. #8
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    Sadly, this is one of the things that upset me most about WoW, the slow patch cycles, the lack of post max-level content in Cataclysm. It's when I just gave up and lost faith in WoW. The promises that became "let-downs" (eg path of titans), the seeming inability to fix seemingly simple things (character models, graphics). The excuses about "not having enough resources" - which is friggin' ludicrous.

    Judging by my new experiences, some other mmo's just get on with it and "do it" in a hotfix or a content patch. I love WoW, but just can't stand to be treated like a person who should be grateful for anything I get given - and not a paying customer who pays for service. I have experienced both now and I truly understand and appreciate the difference.
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  9. #9
    As TEHPALLYTANK says. It isn't as easy as one thinks. Blizzard already explained in the past that there are two choices. One fast and dirty one where you have to work a lot after the release so that it functions how it should or the clean way where you first make sure that everything works before releasing it. Blizzard wants to do the clean way because everybody knows what would happen if Blizzard releases something what isn't finished.

    As for the tech itself. In order to send mail from one server to another the server you're on needs to know the server and character on the other server. Blizzard could easily add such a function to the mail system but the mail system needs an overhaul anyway so when Blizzard finally decides to start working on that they will rework the mailing system completely. So a little bit of work becomes a really big project to work on.

    Look at Diablo 3 and you'll see what Blizzard is could do but it will take a lot of time. I'm sure they are already working on one of the bigger overhauls for the next expansion but it isn't as easy as one thinks.

    edit:

    @Keilith

    They could add such a thing but nobody knows which other problems or exploits will appear when they use another feature for something different. With account wide achievements there was the idea to just make an account wide achievement that will reward you the corresponding item so that when you create a new character it will be automatically in your mail but Blizzard doesn't want that solution. The stash as in Diablo 3 is probably not possible at the moment because there's nothing of that kind in the game.

    @theWocky

    Character models and graphics aren't simple things. Do you know how much work it is to make a new model? Or how much work it is to make a new model that is compatible with all the old items? I don't think you understand how much work that is and you can't just throw more people on these problems because it can only work one person at the time on one model and once he finished the model he has to give it to another person so that he can work on it and so on. As for the graphics in general or the engine it's the same problem. When you add something new it has to be compatible with all the old things or you have to rework everything when adding something. With the lack of content you have two problems. One is that there's one mastermind behind the story of WoW and everything has to be approved by him. It's similar to Star Wars and George Lucas. The other thing is that Blizzard has a very high standard of quality and in order to match this standard you can only with a small team because when it gets bigger the communication between the different departments won't work very well.

    And other newer MMOs can do thing more quickly because their foundations of the game support it as of WoW's don't. WoW was made at a time where you don't add new features but only new content so in order to add something that isn't content they have to rework big parts of the game.
    Last edited by lordjust; 2012-12-26 at 09:25 AM.

  10. #10
    The game started development in the early 2000s. They didn't know they would allow BoA gear at the time, and server transfers weren't even implemented. The mail system can't communicate with other servers. It wasn't designed this way, they said it multiple times before. Changing that would mean changing something in the very fundation of the game and I doubt they really wanna go this way.

    Yes, it is easy to implement something like for pets and things like that. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind. First, if you'd buy a leather agi chest, it would be available in the panel right ? But what if you're leveling both a rogue and a monk, could be on the same server or different one, doesn't matter. Usually, you'd have to buy it twice or either always mail those heirlooms back and forth. The thing is.. they'd need to control how many of those heirlooms you can have at once either in a bag or equipped on a given toon at all time, because then, you wouldn't have to buy it twice. Heirlooms costing JP is an incentive to run dungeons and things like that to shorten queue times, or being a gold sink for the guild specific one. And this is something that would probably encounter other technical difficulties that would require a lot of time.

    The thing is.. most of you guys don't know anything at all in programming, let alone something as big and complex than World of Warcraft. This is the disadvantage of a game as old as WoW. The industry developed some nice techniques of programming over time, are using newer engines for a lot of things. Wow doesn't unfortunately, and this is something they have to deal with everyday.

    I'm SURE that a lot of the devs come up with some very neat ideas every single day, but they can't implement as easily as it could be in another game. This is an every day challenge to them and to be honest, I'm pretty amazed to see how far the game as come since Vanilla.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    As TEHPALLYTANK says. It isn't as easy as one thinks. Blizzard already explained in the past that there are two choices. One fast and dirty one where you have to work a lot after the release so that it functions how it should or the clean way where you first make sure that everything works before releasing it. Blizzard wants to do the clean way because everybody knows what would happen if Blizzard releases something what isn't finished.

    As for the tech itself. In order to send mail from one server to another the server you're on needs to know the server and character on the other server. Blizzard could easily add such a function to the mail system but the mail system needs an overhaul anyway so when Blizzard finally decides to start working on that they will rework the mailing system completely. So a little bit of work becomes a really big project to work on.

    Look at Diablo 3 and you'll see what Blizzard is could do but it will take a lot of time. I'm sure they are already working on one of the bigger overhauls for the next expansion but it isn't as easy as one thinks.
    No, it isnt easy, but it sure as hell wouldnt need several years to work. sending heirlooms doesnt "need" to be through mail. we have xrealm mounts, pets, achievements, they could move heirlooms from items to itembuffs, usable through interface like mounts and voila, let two interns internally work on it for couple of months and you are done.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    but Cross Realm Zones wasn't technical limited?, i see, only sending an item is hard to do. what about Real ID, they said that was impossible too (well almost impossible) they made that too, i really can't see how sending an item is more technical than those 2 i just mentioned.
    as someone who is in programming, these two things are completely seperate. the reason these are different is because every piece of gear in game is accounted for and not just "created" they are purchased or dropped from a random loot table. i suspect the main reason it hasnt been implemented yet has to do with it opening up a form of item duping, because the way the game sees it your item is being duplicated. im no where near experienced in it enough to know for sure though. another reason is im sure blizz hasnt appointed the resources(man-power) to getting this done.
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  13. #13
    It seems the more ignorant a person is the more confidence they have in their hunches about reality. This is something they're getting around to when they feel like devoting the resources to it. They don't think it's as important as you do, it's that simple. They do however feel it's important enough that they still plan on doing it when they're not busy working on what they already want to work on. There is no conspiracy, there is nothing lazy about it. They just don't think it's worth giving up features you think are worth giving up.

    They aren't feeding you excuses or stringing you along. You're not a special open minded consumer that sees through the illusions of PR and advertising. They don't hire anyone who possibly wants a job with their company.
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  14. #14
    I'm not a programmer by any means, but I don't see why they couldn't give heirlooms a sale price of zero and make them act like the boa pets and mounts from pre-mop did, when they would just be in your new character's mailbox. Then again I've leveled nearly all the toons I ever intend to, so I'm not nearly as invested in this issue as I once was.

  15. #15
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    I would suggest that maybe they make em like pets and mounts now(maybe tabards as well) and make it so that when we use them we learn them and they can then be activated to say be mailed to that character...Remove their sell price and bam..

    Though i'm sure this isn't even HALF as simple as it sounds but yeah.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Keilith View Post
    See I would understand that except they said technical hurdles. They wont be honest and say either

    A) We dont wanna we are focused on other things

    B) We would rather you load your heirlooms on an alt and pay for a transfer.



    See with current system in place CRZ, Account achivements, battle pets, and many things that use the entire account is it really a technical hurdle to add in a Heirloom bank or drop down menu? Load an heirloom onto it and nothing else.


    (Edit post)

    They do have the tech btw D3 your stash, set, match, game.
    None of those things you listed has to do with the technical hurdles. Yes because they have to make changes to the current mail system in order for it to work. They will get to it and you are just gonna have to be patient.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatcrazypenguin View Post
    regarding mailing of heirlooms to other realms the blue response is basically `unlikely it'll be implemented during Mists of Pandaria as there're numerous technical hurdles that need to be overcome first in order to happen.`

    How many more things are they going to blame `numerous technical hurdles` as the reason not to do, it seems like its getting like a standard blizzard response to many things, I mean are their staff poorly skilled and trained or something? because it seems to me theres a hell of a lot they blame on `technical hurdles`.....the solution would be to get people who know what they are doing more on the technical side surly? unless such a response is just put out as a `fob you off` excuse as I rather suspect it is.
    First things first, what else have they using "numerous technical hurdles" on?

    I see you asking about the skill of their code team. The solution you propose isn't really what needs to be done here. See, what you would need to understand is what "numerous technical hurdles" actually means. It's not a lack of skill. The trick is, making that new code work without having to completely rewrite the existing code. Welcome to "numerous technical hurdles". The time it would take to just attempt to make this work and the time required to potentially rewrite all of the existing code would be astronomical. Thus, not a good use of team resources. Besides, there is technically a work around for moving heirloom gear to other servers. This means that the idea of mailing stuff to different servers isn't super high priority. Wrap that all together and you get Technical Difficulties. Hopefully, this helps you to see that simply bringing in other people isn't going to get this particular task accomplished any faster.

    Now, I don't know what you mean by "fob you off" but it doesn't sound like something one would say if they had any understanding of game design on a code level.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetersky View Post
    I'm not a programmer by any means, but I don't see why they couldn't give heirlooms a sale price of zero and make them act like the boa pets and mounts from pre-mop did, when they would just be in your new character's mailbox. Then again I've leveled nearly all the toons I ever intend to, so I'm not nearly as invested in this issue as I once was.
    The issue with this is that they operate under two different mechanics. The BoA pets and mounts were mailed to new characters because an out-of-game purchase flagged that account so that every new toon would recieve whichever items it was flagged for.
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  19. #19
    They could make every heirloom purchase be a "quest" similar to the pandaria treasures, with the differnce being that it completes account wide on purchase.
    After doing this, all they'd have to do= add a npc in every starting zone that offers the "lost" heirlooms (aka the ones you have quest-unlocked), similar to how the tabard vendor sells you the tabards you have earned/unlocked. Ofc this isn't the same as mailing, as you obviously dont have the enchants on them, but the items are available for all characters, as they are account unlocked, ignoring servers/faction.

  20. #20
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sengiratolom View Post
    They could make every heirloom purchase be a "quest" similar to the pandaria treasures, with the differnce being that it completes account wide on purchase.
    After doing this, all they'd have to do= add a npc in every starting zone that offers the "lost" heirlooms (aka the ones you have quest-unlocked), similar to how the tabard vendor sells you the tabards you have earned/unlocked. Ofc this isn't the same as mailing, as you obviously dont have the enchants on them, but the items are available for all characters, as they are account unlocked, ignoring servers/faction.
    The problem with this is that Blizzard clearly wants a system where one purchase = one heirloom, not one purchase = unlimited heirlooms.
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