Wildstrike vs Heroicstrike

[kakihara]

With both at 30 rage cost and assuming equal weapons which does more damage per rage?

[Deleted]

Wild Strike does more damage, you can test it on dummy. Atleast with TG.

[kakihara]

And how about smf? and testing it on a dummy is far from accurate since weapons have a damage range. so either you test it for a very long time or you figure it out theoretically. i hope someone already did the later

[Deleted]

Wild strike does more damage than heroic strike as tg, and as it gets an extra multiplier from single-minded fury (all damage is multiplied by 35% for smf, but off-hand damage is multiplied by a further 35%, which makes wild strike hit harder compared to hs as it uses off-hand weapon damage), it hits even harder compared to heroic strike for smf.

That said, the choice is not as simple as all that. If you have the choice between: spending 30 rage now to fill a gcd with a wild strike when you have no cooldowns up; or saving that 30 rage to spend during colossus smash/bloodbath/trinkets/blah blah on a heroic strike - the heroic strike buffed by cds will hit harder than the wild strike with no cds. So as long as you're not capping rage you should skip non-buffed wild strikes so you can dump that rage durign colossus smash.

Obviously under the same conditions wild strike hits harder than heroic strike though, so if you do end up with a GCD not being used by raging blow/bloodthirst/bloodsurge wildstrike during colossus smash/other cooldowns then you should spend 30 rage on non-proc wildstrike rather than on heroic strike.

TLR the relative DPRs are constantly shifting due to buffs/debuffs throughout a fight, but as a general rule of thumb only spend rage on wild strike outside of CDs if you're going to cap rage. Under same buff/debuff conditions wild strike will hit harder than HS if you have the empty GCD to use it.

Edit: the relative values will also depend on how much better your mh is than your oh, as heroic strike uses mh damage while wild strike uses oh damage. For SMF it is conceivable that for example, heroic strike under colossus smash compared to wild strike with a trinket proc and no cs, hs might be better if your mh is considerably better than your oh, while ws might be better if you're using equal level weapons.

[eScar95]

I roll PvP SMF atm. All I can say, whether you're using TG or SMF makes just a small difference. With SMF, WS> HS. I actually have considered removing HS from my action bars since it plays no roll in Fury when we can just swap it out for a WS to apply a debuff and for more damage.

[kakihara]

alright gonna try to use some non proc wildstrikes when i got some global cds with nothing to fill and too much rage.

[Senen]

http://wow-hints.fr/?p=1273

It's in French, but you have the DPE/DPR table for every situation (nothing, enraged, cs, enraged+cs). HS+DC is missing but obv it's the same DPE than HS and a DPR 1.5 times higher.
The table was calculated for BiS T14HM SMF warrior but IIRC it's roughly the same for TG, the priority order should be exactly the same.

[Ragequitter]

Just save the rage for your CS where the rage is better spent. Just use WS or HS when almost rage capped. You don't need to constantly fill gcds.

[Senen]

Actually, outside of a CS window, you want to spend rage only for WS, and more precisely for bloodsurge WS or enraged WS. If you're dumping your rage for HS or non-bloodsurge non-enraged WS, you are doing it wrong.

[Divinedoom]

WS hits harder then HS. HS inside CS hits harder then WS outside of CS.

In practice this leads to you running your normal rotation and trying to be as close to 120 rage as possible without capping rage and wasting before your next CS. During CS you dump your rage, as many HS's as you can fit in while mainting enough rage to run your normal rotation.

Now it can happen that you still have enough rage to use a non-proc WS outside of CS. But when playing fury right you will sometimes have empty gcd's when you are unlucky with procs to make sure you have rage for your next CS as CS'd HS hits harder then non-CS WS. During these empty gcd's remember things like shouts and heroic throw.

[Senen]

During CS you dump your rage, as many HS's as you can fit in while mainting enough rage to run your normal rotation.

Good, but not optimal.
If CS+Enraged, spam HS. During a non-enraged CS you just try to be GCD-capped (using WS as a filler) but don't use HS, you'd rather spend rage on enraged non-CS WS than on non-enraged HS (even during CS). Ofc, if DC is active during a non-enraged CS you use HS instead of WS.

You should use HS only if the boss is above 20% AND CS is active AND (you're enraged OR DC is active).

[kakihara]

After trying on the dummy a bit i got a question: how perfectly are you managing your rotation during a normal bossfight with some movement? at the dummy i got to focus quite much on my bars if i want to take everything to account you can do. is heroic throw really worth it? i used it as much as i could and it still is only 0,4% of my damage.

[Senen]

After trying on the dummy a bit i got a question: how perfectly are you managing your rotation during a normal bossfight with some movement?

Badly. But mainly because I'm really bad and don't play this spec for a long time.
Basically, you want to have all the important informations displayed in an optimized way so that you can see them while moving.
You want to track Bloodsurge, Raging Blow, Enraged and CS (and Meat cleaver.)

I don't know if you can read french, but Ratak made a good article on how to build a fury warrior interface. Here: http://wow-hints.fr/?p=1079
Even if you can't read french, I think it's interesting to see how he tracks some buffs http://wow-hints.fr/wp-content/uploa...912_213122.jpg
And the explanations are here: http://wow-hints.fr/wp-content/uploa...9/Tracking.png
If you have access to all the information you need while looking at your character, you don't need to focus on your bars.

is heroic throw really worth it? i used it as much as i could and it still is only 0,4% of my damage.

Outside of CS windows you're not supposed to be GCD-capped. When you have a GCD where you can't/don't want to use anything else, use Heroic throw instead of doing nothing.

[yurano]

I roll PvP SMF atm. All I can say, whether you're using TG or SMF makes just a small difference. With SMF, WS> HS. I actually have considered removing HS from my action bars since it plays no roll in Fury when we can just swap it out for a WS to apply a debuff and for more damage.

When you get focused in PvP with Berserker stance, you get a ton of Rage. You probably get rage capped pretty easily in PvP which is where you'd use HS.

[kakihara]

I was shocked to see me doing 63k dps on the dummy with itemlvl 491. simcraft told me i could to 73k.
Then i realized that simcraft used execute, heroic leap and mogu potion on the dummy which i didnt /couldnt do. deleting those parts from the rotation (i really like to use heroic leap for mobility on bossfights, not mainly for damage) simcraft now tolls me i can do 63k dps.... so i guess im doing something right there.
i think i loose about 2-3k dps when i have to move a lot/have to concentrate a lot on boss mechanics which i hope isnt too bad. i actually tried to display everything around my char with power auras, which in theory works. but pratically it is agrbage for things like raging blow ebcause u need to press the button slightly bevor it comes off gcd instead of reacting to a sudden pop up. i also tried things like a bar with my cooldowns and stuff but nothing worked really good. i see when soemthings procs due to flashy bars (default blizzard flashes, not add on)

But i noticed something which bugs me a little. is critchance handled like hit? I just started using recklessness glyph and im slightly above 20% crit. In theory during recklessness bt should always crit even with the glyph but in fact it doesnt. if it is handled like hit so that i have to get more then 20% crit vs lvl 93 enemies how much would that be? and if not? why doesnt it crit every time?

[Darkfriend]

I was shocked to see me doing 63k dps on the dummy with itemlvl 491. simcraft told me i could to 73k.
Then i realized that simcraft used execute, heroic leap and mogu potion on the dummy which i didnt /couldnt do. deleting those parts from the rotation (i really like to use heroic leap for mobility on bossfights, not mainly for damage) simcraft now tolls me i can do 63k dps.... so i guess im doing something right there.
i think i loose about 2-3k dps when i have to move a lot/have to concentrate a lot on boss mechanics which i hope isnt too bad. i actually tried to display everything around my char with power auras, which in theory works. but pratically it is agrbage for things like raging blow ebcause u need to press the button slightly bevor it comes off gcd instead of reacting to a sudden pop up. i also tried things like a bar with my cooldowns and stuff but nothing worked really good. i see when soemthings procs due to flashy bars (default blizzard flashes, not add on)

But i noticed something which bugs me a little. is critchance handled like hit? I just started using recklessness glyph and im slightly above 20% crit. In theory during recklessness bt should always crit even with the glyph but in fact it doesnt. if it is handled like hit so that i have to get more then 20% crit vs lvl 93 enemies how much would that be? and if not? why doesnt it crit every time?

40% (crit x2 chance)+30%=70% crit chance of BT when using that glyph.

[Deleted]

Er, no. Reck crit chance is added in before before bloodthirst doubling effect, so if it weren't for crit suppression he should see 100% bt crit with 20% base crit and 30% from reck.

Crit suppression is also added in before doubling though, which is what he's not taking into account. Vs boss level mobs it's -3%. (20% - 3% + 30%) * 2 = 94% BT crit chance.

Also don't use reck glyph, search forums for more detailed explanation as it's been done to death, but it's a dps loss.

[Panzerlol]

What about WS vs WW? My warrior alt is TG, and I heard rumors that I want to have the Raging Wind glyph (RB buffs next WW by 10%).

Obviously this is true for aoe, but is it also true for singletarget?
(armory in sig, my alt)

[Laundry]

What about WS vs WW? My warrior alt is TG, and I heard rumors that I want to have the Raging Wind glyph (RB buffs next WW by 10%).

Obviously this is true for aoe, but is it also true for singletarget?
(armory in sig, my alt)

I do believe this to be true, but ONLY as TG and ONLY with that glyph, otherwise its the reverse.