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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Since Wrath, Blizzard has been changing the nature of the Hit stat significantly - by making a number of hybrid specs able to gain Hit Rating from their Spirit stat, by normalizing the Hit cap, making Hit and Expertise interchangeable for ranged classes, and even by giving Healer specs passive spells that guarantee a hit cap for certain damage spells. Keeping along with this direction, it seems as though Hit Rating might go the way of Armor Penetration.

    While it seems like a plausibly good idea in theory, people having to attain a certain cap before they can focus on other stats, with the advent of Reforging this has introduced the problem of Stat Cascade; i.e. acquiring a new piece of gear which changes your hit Rating often reforging a large number if not all your other items. That, and of all the stats, Hit is the only one that actually decreases your DPS below a certain level, yet provides no benefit once that level is reached.

    There are a few possible solutions to this situation, like removing Hit Rating entirely, making all spells and abilities guaranteed to hit (before dodge, parry, etc. come into play, of course). Another is to alter Hit Rating so that while it still detriments your dps below cap, it provides somewhat of a benefit once cap is reached, meaning that going over cap no longer becomes so detrimental.

    What do you think? Should Hit Rating be axed, or just altered?
    If we're talking about hit soft/hard caps, casters are the only ones with one raid hit cap; non-casters do benefit from hit until a hard cap is reached, though reaching this cap is quite excessive and unlikely to be reached given the value of other secondary stats. Don't know how stat priorities are for all classes in this expansion but I know that back in Cataclysm Hit was a worthwhile stat to have for Fury Warriors and at least one Rogue spec. Now in MoP Hit and Expertise are worthwhile tanking stats for activated mitigation abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I think you over-exaggerate the impact. There are no single abilities that would significantly impact your overall damage done on a raid boss if it missed once. The real impact is the people are so used to consistency that the RNG would make them cry.

    Also, there are easy things that can be implemented to prevent getting too screwed by RNG - such as resetting the CD if a more critical ability misses that has a large CD. Stuff like that. You just need to think creatively.
    Missing once, probably not. But I would ask you to try doing the holiday boss with no-low hit/expertise as a caster versus a non-caster and see which performs better.

    Edit: Since caster expertise was brought up, I'm kind of curious if reforging a Hit+X piece's X stat to expertise can prove to be more useful than other options.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2012-12-26 at 07:24 PM.

  2. #42
    Dreadlord
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    I appreciate hit, as it is a stat that must be reached in order to even begin considering optimal ways to play. Also, the reason hybrids were given hit=spirit was to reduce the number of useless pieces of raid gear. Nothing like seeing that spirit mail weeks after your only resto shaman was geared out.

    Also, going over hit cap is not actually 'detrimental' as some classes (dual wield) actually only receive benefit for yellow hits and not white upon reaching the standard caps. In fact it's not detrimental at all seeing as how that implies you're somehow damaging yourself by going over hit cap when really you're just not gaining anything further so let's just call it pointless (for most).

    However, since Bliz removed def cap and that used to be a super simple stat. Tank = def cap'd = has put in at least minimal effort. Hit could be next, however they seem to like that there are some stats everyone just has to work for.

    If hit were removed, I would hope they would scale down secondary stats on gear because it seems like the only reason people would want hit removed is so they can reforge ALL into their favorite secondary stat.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    I didn't realise opening Askmrrobot and pressing "optimize" was complex.
    Yes, it is complex. You shouldn't have to go to a 3rd party website just to get the correct stats on your gear. But that's what blizzard did, so now we have to.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    Yes, it is complex. You shouldn't have to go to a 3rd party website just to get the correct stats on your gear. But that's what blizzard did, so now we have to.
    You don't have to use a 3rd party webiste. Use your brain a little bit, and you can get the same results.

  5. #45
    I believe Ghostcrawler said he wanted to do something with hit rating in the future, saying it's little more than an annoyance right now, offers nothing compelling and amounts to simply being a tricky little chore that you have to constantly reforge to account for.

    I have to agree, I just don't see the point of hit rating. I dont play wow to fiddle with numbers, things like that remove the player from the 'essence' of the game - it turns what was a fantasy game into a game of numbers and that kind of gameplay is never fun. I can easily imagine hit rating going the same way as defense rating: they're both just targets you HAVE to reach just to be able to function normally, beyond that they offer nothing in terms of gameplay whatsoever and only end up being a chore.

    As for what he said, I think he talked about removing it completely but also said that's not likely to happen. Instead we could see some major revamp of the hit system where we won't need to reforge and fiddle all the time.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2012-12-26 at 08:50 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    I didn't realise opening Askmrrobot and pressing "optimize" was complex.
    You are free to optimize yourself without having your hand held. WoW provides the option, AMR (and others) gives you the most efficient solution. The argument wasn't whether or not you can get the solution in one click, it was whether the option was there at all.
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  7. #47
    This opens the topic, if stats itself or their current implantation in MMO (and maybe other games too) is still the right way. With the massive information and think tank power of the internet, theorycraft finds out really quick, which stats to what amount is important. Stats are just "leveling" now, and less of preference (hit for sustained? or crit for burst?), how it feels is less important then the logs numbers and theorycraft numbers. So the goal is the same within a class/specc.

    Getting stats, is quite simple too, it`s on items, and no stats is more difficult to get then other, counter example would be, crit/hast and co via normal modes, but hit gear/gems etc only hardmode, so there is no limit on getting this, except item level and minor design limitation.

    The more i think of it, it`s just EXP for Leveling in disguise, i mean, make gear vanity in style, and with the justice/valor etc. points are used to fill the stats bar, till you get the max optimal stats for your class, would that be so much of a difference? Well a little because temporay limitation may have the option of prefered playstyle, but that is for the math guy to decide if the optimal way is so much better then a personal one.

    Is it possible to have a class, where hit is unimportant (as DD)? Like Critdamage would be so much higher that crit chance and damage would be more worth? Guess so but hard to balance.

    Stats are an old model, it is really time for a a true new generation MMO, less stats far more gameplay.

  8. #48
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Raise Miss by 5%, and give Hit DR. Or something like that. There are many ways to do it without pissing everyone off.
    Been there, seen that. In TBC, you always had a 1% miss chance. (as a caster)
    VERY frustrating concept and I'm glad it's gone.
    I do NOT want it back.

    It's fine to miss stuff when leveling up, but once I'm raiding, I don't want to be below cap.
    It is pretty fail that 1 upgrade can mean you have to reforge every piece of gear you own. It's not a good system.
    It's pretty fail that people assume that it's mandatory to reforge. Please keep in mind that back in the day, when A piece gave you 0,5% hit over cap, you either juggled around OTHER ITEMS or you just had to accept it. Guess what: Bosses still died w/o everyone being at 15.00000% hit.

    Reforging in essence is a feature targeted at the min max crowd.
    Sadly every moron thinks he has to min max his gear these days only to fail at the most basic movements or mechanics.
    Seriously: get a grip people.

    You don't have to use a 3rd party webiste. Use your brain a little bit, and you can get the same results.
    If people would actually use their brain on that level, everyone would down heroic modes.
    Most people DO NOT WANT to use theirs in a gaming environment, thats why 5man HCs & LFR had to be dumbed down so hard.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2012-12-27 at 12:37 AM.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    If we're talking about hit soft/hard caps, casters are the only ones with one raid hit cap; non-casters do benefit from hit until a hard cap is reached, though reaching this cap is quite excessive and unlikely to be reached given the value of other secondary stats. Don't know how stat priorities are for all classes in this expansion but I know that back in Cataclysm Hit was a worthwhile stat to have for Fury Warriors and at least one Rogue spec.
    That's because Fury and rogues dual-wield. For the non-dual-wielding melee, there's no such thing as a hit soft cap--the special hit cap and auto-attack hit cap are both 7.5%. Dual-wielding adds a hit penalty for auto-attacks.

  10. #50
    Personally I'd argue that we should keep Hit (it's an Accuracy stat, makes perfect sense) and get rid of Expertise, which is kind of redundant and confusing to new players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    That, and of all the stats, Hit is the only one that actually decreases your DPS below a certain level, yet provides no benefit once that level is reached.
    That's a rather strange way of looking at it. All stats decrease your DPS when you have less of them. And Hit only stops providing benefit at the spell cap for casters, it's the white cap for melee (which no class actually attempts to reach).

    Also this is not unique as the same is true of Expertise.
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  11. #51
    i cant help but laugh at the people who are complaining that they have too reforge every time they gain a new piece of gear.

    reforging made it so much easier, before it you had too change out entire piece of your set in order not too waste too much stat budget on expertise or hit.
    and pick your gear wisely toghter so it would produce the required amount of hit/exp without having too much or not enough while also trying too get enough of your other 2ndary stats.
    nowadays you just reforge around a bit and tadaa! there you go. the better item fits in perfectly and on top of that you even got addons/sites to do it for you.

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