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  1. #21
    AH was and is one of the best features ever made. Why?
    Look at PoE, like Shinzai said, ppl have to spam trade chat, forums and yet are not fingind buyers. Why? It is very simple. Buyers won't read this crazy trade chat. Buyers won't read +100 threads on the forums. Actually this is very funny, to see all those hardcores trying to sell gear and like I said in the past...soon or later nobody will buy these items, market will be flooded. Only very rare rolls will sell, as casuals are tired of this product or simply don't have time to read this spam-trade-chat and forums nor they know about one website that has nice forum-search option for items.

    What makes successfull trade?
    Accessability and comfort of search. Trust me, +90% of players are lazy, D3's search options are like a miracle for them (and for me too). Without it, I think that the number of items being sold would be 100 or even more, times smaller.
    Also keep in mind that: D3 doesn't have runes. There is almost no alternative currency.

    And why the market is flooded in D3, again?
    It is very simple: proportion of items produced by hardcore players is way beyond needs of all (mostly casual) players. Look at the WoW and it's itemization, almost every item is BoP or BoE, tradable, usable end-game items are like 10% of all. Market is stable. The same goes for crafting.
    D3 should have BoE or at least BoA itemization. This would help somehow.
    Another problem, connected with that, is disproportion of hardcore findings vs casual findings. Compare MP10 infreno+Paragon 100+tons of MF dude vs casual struggling to farm MP1. In theory, the first guy may produce 10 times more items than that casual.

    Conclusion: think by yourself, do not read mindless cries and shouts, almost every person spaming and yelling "rmah, ah destroyed D3!" have never seriously considered what I wrote and has never seriously thought about the system. That's it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Do we really have to go back into how the AH is a completely optional feature? The people that don't want to use it... just don't.
    It's not optional when the percentage of good drops is deliberately lowered (Blizzard have said so themselves) to prevent the AH from being overflooded with good items.

    Yes, the existance of the AH is felt by EVERYONE, regardless of wether you use it or not. If you don't use the AH, you're only holding yourself back.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-28 at 01:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post
    And why the market is flooded in D3, again?
    It is very simple: proportion of items produced by hardcore players is way beyond needs of all (mostly casual) players. Look at the WoW and it's itemization, almost every item is BoP or BoE, tradable, usable end-game items are like 10% of all. Market is stable. The same goes for crafting.
    D3 should have BoE or at least BoA itemization. This would help somehow.
    When you compare the AH between D3 and WoW, you should take note that WoW has an AH per server while D3 has an AH per region.
    That's the reason the AH is flooded.

    If you would merge all WoW AHs per region then they would get flooded with items and prices would go down as well.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    It's not optional when the percentage of good drops is deliberately lowered (Blizzard have said so themselves) to prevent the AH from being overflooded with good items.

    Yes, the existance of the AH is felt by EVERYONE, regardless of wether you use it or not. If you don't use the AH, you're only holding yourself back.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-28 at 01:03 PM ----------



    When you compare the AH between D3 and WoW, you should take note that WoW has an AH per server while D3 has an AH per region.
    That's the reason the AH is flooded.

    If you would merge all WoW AHs per region then they would get flooded with items and prices would go down as well.
    You're missing the point though. Path of Exile is currently running with no AH, exactly how people want/wanted D3 to be. It's got very similar drop rates to Diablo 3 in my opinion - I find that I get way more useful yellows in D3 in fact, but it's hard to do anything in Path of Exile except collect large amounts of items that are useless to you to turn into an orb or two for potential trades.

    The AH is clearly completely optional when people can work their way through huge amounts of PoE without trading. I'd say that PoE is as hard as D3 Inferno pre-nerf at the cruel difficulty and harder on Merciless. With one difference: There's no AH to support you in that game. People that always claimed the AH broke the game were just bad or didn't want to farm endlessly. Mediocre yellows and blues are all that's needed to beat D3 these days. Where as pre-nerf you actually had to spend time farming some good gear, but you could still get through it.

    I really like Path Of Exile regardless though - It's a hell of a challenge and not trading and running solo is just making it more interesting for me. I love the farming aspect of both games and it's my main reason for playing them.

    Another point - if people really want the gear, they will acquire it one way or another, AH or no. There's little difference between there being an AH or not, other than simple convenience and time saving. With my original Barb on D3, I didn't use the AH, except to sell items I thought other people may have found useful. As I hit Act 3 Inferno, I went tank mode and managed to reach Act 4, but I don't play these games 24/7 and while I was working through Act 4, the game got nerfed and suddenly Act 4 became a joke.

    Diablo 3 simply doesn't require AH use at all, but I like the fact that it's there so I can rapidly gear my alts. The argument that you're holding yourself back by not using the AH is nonsense, unless you're actually taking part in some kind of race to get all the best gear possible? It's not like an MMO where you have to meet certain standards for your guild to progress or anything like that, so the argument still holds no weight.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    The argument that you're holding yourself back by not using the AH is nonsense, unless you're actually taking part in some kind of race to get all the best gear possible?
    That's pretty much all D3 is about so yeah.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    As far as I understand, supply far outstrips demand at this point, and sellers are still reluctant to drop prices. That's why gold doesn't sell.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    That's pretty much all D3 is about so yeah.
    I would disagree. Though most people don't realise it, the journey's the interesting part. Suddenly having all the best gear in the game is unrewarding and instantly kills any motivation to continue. However, knowing that eventually you may reach a peak, that's fun. Most people switch to new characters if one ever reaches a gear peak, because after that, what else is there? More of the same, but with no reward.

  7. #27
    no gold is selling because of the bots

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    I would disagree. Though most people don't realise it, the journey's the interesting part. Suddenly having all the best gear in the game is unrewarding and instantly kills any motivation to continue. However, knowing that eventually you may reach a peak, that's fun. Most people switch to new characters if one ever reaches a gear peak, because after that, what else is there? More of the same, but with no reward.
    Exactly, which is why I have never used the auction house (either one). I just play with what I find myself. You easily find enough gear to beat inferno and start playing higher MP levels. I really don't understand why people want to buy their gear. For what? Once you have the best gear the game is over LOL.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    I would disagree. Though most people don't realise it, the journey's the interesting part. Suddenly having all the best gear in the game is unrewarding and instantly kills any motivation to continue.
    So getting new gear is not part of the journey? So what should you do once you hit 60? Beat inferno and call it a day?
    There is nothing more to do than acquiring better gear and doing the same thing over and over again once you're 60. So why should I hold myself back by not using the AH? To artificially make the game harder and make it take even longer?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    So getting new gear is not part of the journey? So what should you do once you hit 60? Beat inferno and call it a day?
    There is nothing more to do than acquiring better gear and doing the same thing over and over again once you're 60. So why should I hold myself back by not using the AH? To artificially make the game harder and make it take even longer?
    Buying new gear is not a journey of any sort. What you just suggested makes no sense. In what way are you holding yourself back? Is there a major difference in feeling between farming MP 1 vs MP 2? Is there some kind of significant feeling you get from one, but not the other? I would argue that buying items makes the game artificially weaker. Like buying gun parts in Dead Space 3 - sure, do it if you want to, but it's not going to break the game when you could farm them anyway.

    And a lot of people do hit 60 and beat Inferno, then just stop - they consider that the end of their journey in the game and it's a valid option.

  11. #31
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Since I'm not in Europe I won't comment on RMAH/AH anything there except to make the general comment that I think it's true that a basic problem with the game is the existence of the auction houses. At this point after seeing what's happened with that experiment I can't imagine that a game without the auction houses would be worse.

    It might not be better but it wouldn't be worse.

    In my ideal game world there would be no auction houses and a strong secure double confirmation system in place for players to barter with one another and that would be it.

    Right now I'm playing found only so the auction houses and economy generally have no effect whatsoever on my game. It's not a great loss. Actually, it's quite an improvement in my view.

    Blizzard's primary problem at this point is that they can't keep bots out of the chat channels (and apparently are either unwilling or incapable of fixing the problem) so that there's no good way to advertise for barter.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-03-03 at 07:21 PM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    In what way are you holding yourself back?
    Blizzard themselves have admitted that the quality of loot is deliberately lowered to compensate for the existance of the AH. So even if you don't use the AH, you still get the penalty that comes along with it. That's what I mean with holding yourself back.

  13. #33
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Blizzard themselves have admitted that the quality of loot is deliberately lowered to compensate for the existance of the AH. So even if you don't use the AH, you still get the penalty that comes along with it. That's what I mean with holding yourself back.
    The 'penalty' is self-perceived in that sense. The gear that drops is good enough to complete the game although I think you have to play found only to actually grasp this. It's slower, yes. And that gets to your second point about holding yourself back. I'm not in any particular hurry. Lowering the speed limit from 120mph to 80mph doesn't matter to me if I'm only driving at 70mph. I'll still get there eventually and frankly I'm not in any competition or race with anyone over that. I simply do not care how fast others get to their goals. I'm only worried about my goals.

    EDIT: I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm happy with the loot/drops in D3. They're good enough to beat the game but the play does feel largely unrewarding in comparison to other games. I'd be fine with better drops; a server with no AH and better drops or a crafting system that allows me to craft gear at all levels of the game that I can reliably use (more-or-less allowing for RNG). None of those things are true at present and could stand improvement. That said, I think that people that believe that you can't finish or even play the game without using either auction house are either being dishonest or haven't really tried.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-03-03 at 08:05 PM.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    Since I'm not in Europe I won't comment on RMAH/AH anything there except to make the general comment that I think it's true that a basic problem with the game is the existence of the auction houses. At this point after seeing what's happened with that experiment I can't imagine that a game without the auction houses would be worse.
    I think there are not too many at least somewhat smart people who don't understand how destructive the AH is for the game.

    Sadly the alternative is black market. And instead of using AH we would use black market, wasting hours of time to find needed item on black market forums, wasting real life money and getting banned all the time.

    I dream about playing the game with my friends where amazing unique items drop all the time and we exchange them with each other. The game with great community and interesting team gameplay.
    But it just won't happen. Ever. People changed. Games changed. Blizzard changed.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    I think there are not too many at least somewhat smart people who don't understand how destructive the AH is for the game.

    Sadly the alternative is black market. And instead of using AH we would use black market, wasting hours of time to find needed item on black market forums, wasting real life money and getting banned all the time.

    I dream about playing the game with my friends where amazing unique items drop all the time and we exchange them with each other. The game with great community and interesting team gameplay.
    But it just won't happen. Ever. People changed. Games changed. Blizzard changed.
    The Diablo 2 black market still exists. It was a product of the game having no AH or similar, the idealised view of Diablo 2 that people have created is mostly nonsense.

    Even if the game had more unique drops and legendaries, there would still be a large percentage of people that wanted the best gear and would go out of their way to obtain it, regardless of how they had to acquire it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    The Diablo 2 black market still exists. It was a product of the game having no AH or similar, the idealised view of Diablo 2 that people have created is mostly nonsense.

    Even if the game had more unique drops and legendaries, there would still be a large percentage of people that wanted the best gear and would go out of their way to obtain it, regardless of how they had to acquire it.
    Well, there is a big difference between the game where you can find your upgrades and the game where you can't. In d2 you was able to find the upgrades for yourself. And for your alts. And for your friends.
    D3 is like part-time job where you get paid with gold. You farm, you sell what you farm. The only way to buy upgrades is to go to AH. Well, until recent changes to crafting minigame, now you can craft 2-3 of your items, you still have to buy rest if it on AH.

    Its a big difference between the game where 1% of players uses black market and the game where 99% of players have to use AH to buy upgrades because they have no chance to find them in game.
    Last edited by traen; 2013-03-04 at 08:28 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    Well, there is a big difference between the game where you can find your upgrades and the game where you can't. In d2 you was able to find the upgrades for yourself. And for your alts. And for your friends.
    D3 is like part-time job where you get paid with gold. You farm, you sell what you farm. The only way to buy upgrades is to go to AH. Well, until recent changes to crafting minigame, now you can craft 2-3 of your items, you still have to buy rest if it on AH.

    Its a big difference between the game where 1% of players uses black market and the game where 99% of players have to use AH to buy upgrades because they have no chance to find them in game.
    That's the thing though - people are quibbling over not being able to find the absolute best items in the game the majority of the time as it's been proved time and time again that you do not need to use the AH to play the game. Also, the sheer quantity of legendaries and highly rolled rares on the gold AH point to there being a huge amount of these items available.

    When you can get decently rolled legendary weapons with 1000~1400 dps for a hundred thousand gold, it insinuates that the market for these items has bottomed out and they are either unnecessary to the majority of players, or that the amount of them found has devalued them. From what I've seen, Ice Climbers/Firewalkers and a few other specific legendary pieces, with extremely good stats are the only high-value items that get sold for millions upon millions of gold any more, due to them having some of the smallest representations on the AH.

    Regardless of the GAH however, I still believe that the RMAH has and never will be a valid option for the "I was forced to buy gear with money." debate. If you can farm up millions of gold in the game, you can buy the gear you want in the GAH, though the key word there is want, not need.

  18. #38
    The loot and the droprates in D3 were made in consideration of the existance of an auction house. So u will never be able to find a full set with reasonable stats for your char in reasonable time (lets say 1000 hours played). This is the big difference to d2, where equip could be farmed.

    In D3, equipment cannot be realistically farmed. There are no areas where u can get this drop, its just everything may drop from any mob, and in 2 out of 100 of this rare drops, it might be good.

    D3 is farming to get something valueable to drop to sell it to have enough gold to buy an upgrade for your own char.

    Now, after all the buffs and nerfs, every idiot and their mother can speed farm at high monster level and generate 3-5 legendary items / hour. Most (99,99) of them are shit, or mediocre. The good ones (over the 97 percentile of possible best stats) are still VERY valuable,the lesser ones are worth nothing. Everyone who actively plays. already has those medium/ lowend items. And thats why all this stuf is worthless. Either u get lucky, and catch something very valuable, to exchange into an upgrade for you, or u dont. But dont expect to sell 100 s of low / mid items to get one top item, it doesnt work this way, they dont sell reasonable, and somehwo thats what everone tries to achieve nontheless.

    Selling gold on Real money auction house is stupid. Chinese bots / hackers / farmes offer it for 9 cent / million, while rmah lowest possible goldprice is 25 cent. So MANY clever gangsters came to the idea "i invest 100 Euro in chinese gold and sell it on rmah", but nobody buys i
    t (its like having an official exchange course, and a blackmarket course, like changing Rubel into Euro... if u do this at official course, u are officially a retard.)
    There is so much gold in diablo3...

    The only way to save the Diablo economy would be blizzard playing "FED" and buy all the gold from the action house for real money and destroy it afterwards. I bet, the activision / blizz shareholders wont support this.
    Last edited by Holofernes; 2013-03-08 at 11:39 PM.

  19. #39
    Has anyone sold any gold recently?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    I dream about playing the game with my friends where amazing unique items drop all the time and we exchange them with each other. The game with great community and interesting team gameplay.
    But it just won't happen. Ever. People changed. Games changed. Blizzard changed.
    Amazing unique items dropping all the time is the single worst idea I've ever heard for an ARPG.
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    He doesn't need a source to know that he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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