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  1. #1
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Arcane: Mastrey Vs. Haste????

    I respected arcane after fire was nerfed and i wanted to know what is better for an arcane mage full haste or full mastery with haste soft cap ???

    I am currently using the scorch weaving rotation and i also wanted to know does it make a really huge difference if i keep using arcane blast till around 85% mana or stop at 90% mana ??

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    IIRC Haste-Arcane is slightly ahead of Mastery-Arcane, with a large emphasis on slightly.
    I'd stop around 90% mana personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  3. #3
    i dont have solid numbers for this bit it seems that at higher gear levels mastery wins out on haste although haste is a bit more forgiving if you ever lose your stacks. i myself am reforging mastery simply because i like the huge ABs it gives (495ilvl)

    hope this helps.

    oh yeah with mastery you want to stay above 90% and with haste you can go a bit further (85ish%)
    “The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station.”

  4. #4
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    well i have 389 item level with light of cosmos, so is it too low for full mastery ??

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidace View Post
    well i have 389 item level with light of cosmos, so is it too low for full mastery ??
    You mean 489 right?
    Armory link?

    Like I said, both are very, very close to each other so unless you want to min/max to a small degree, talking maybe 1-1.5% if that, and are pushing hard to break heroic dps checks, it boils down to your play style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  6. #6
    I'm just reposting my post, since might be seen here before ....
    Hei guys, I'm bit confused about whole mastery vs haste builds...
    Could u check my gear and tell me if I need more haste? So far was going for pure mastery, last night redid smth with haste, but still wondering should I go more since my ilvl is not high....
    Btw.recently I got hc gloves(502 ilvl) but that would mean losing my set bonus so dont think it would be smart idea to equip them...

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 02:28 PM ----------

    And forum doesnt let me to post my armory link, so if any good soul would like to help me I can send link in private mssg hopefully

  7. #7
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    You mean 489 right?
    Armory link?

    Like I said, both are very, very close to each other so unless you want to min/max to a small degree, talking maybe 1-1.5% if that, and are pushing hard to break heroic dps checks, it boils down to your play style.
    Yes i meant 489, i keep seeing in the wol of logs that arcane mages are doing better relative to bm hunters and fury warrs. but after the nerf of fire mages i have had some trouble outdpsing them on some fights.

    Should i go to frost or stay as arcane. It is not that i dont know how to play arcane yet or i am a bad player but the difference from what i was doing as fire is alot than what i am doing as arcane now.

    ignoring WOL stats can frost be a good choice for me or should i stay arcane ??

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
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    Frost and Arcane are both good specs to play. You'll want to try both on dummies, in LFRs or heroics to see what appeals to you more. Without armory link, it's hard to help with more details.
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  9. #9
    haste feels to me to be pulling ever so slightly ahead atm (480 ilvl) with 6 charge camping ofc. but i do believe mastery will pull ahead again slighty with higher gear, around 496ish-500, once u reach a certain haste point. not sure what this point is tho tbh.

  10. #10
    At top tier gear mastery is the way to go as it slowly pulls ahead of haste imo. But at your ilvl both builds are fairly equal.

  11. #11
    Im a bit confused on this aswell , I went full mastery and simmed my char , stat weights were int 4.3ish > haste 2.1ish > mastery 2.
    Then i gemmed haste / int and pure int in red and got int 4.3 > haste 2.34> mastery 2.05 so again i regemmed full haste and changed simcrafts armor to frost armor and got int 4.27 > mast 2.2 > haste 2.17 . This was at 5kish haste with frost armor on.
    Im seriously confused by this , simcrafts prio is 6 stack camping with never going lower then 92% mana.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matli View Post
    Im a bit confused on this aswell , I went full mastery and simmed my char , stat weights were int 4.3ish > haste 2.1ish > mastery 2.
    Then i gemmed haste / int and pure int in red and got int 4.3 > haste 2.34> mastery 2.05 so again i regemmed full haste and changed simcrafts armor to frost armor and got int 4.27 > mast 2.2 > haste 2.17 . This was at 5kish haste with frost armor on.
    Im seriously confused by this , simcrafts prio is 6 stack camping with never going lower then 92% mana.
    That's because haste and mastery scale with each other. The more haste you have the better mastery will become and vice versa. You just happen to be at that tipping point with your character where they are roughly even. I would just stick with your haste build and keep on that path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  13. #13
    Grunt
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    I can definitely say that this expansion has definitely not allowed me to become comfortable. Even as a haste-oriented Arcanist, I have to constantly re-check my stat weights with every new piece of gear. I am now having to take into account the changes that may affect us - as listed in the PTR 5.2 notes. I had to create an alt, just to survive my weekly "sessions" with SimulationCraft... aka "Jack Nastee".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kidace View Post
    does it make a really huge difference if i keep using arcane blast till around 85% mana or stop at 90% mana ??
    From my experience, being haste forged and using scorch, you go to 6 stacks and then 1 AB and then a scorch or missles proc if you have it. This AB will take you to 92% mana, then the scorch cast or missles cast time will take you back just at 100% mana, so your next AB is 100% of your mastery bonus. If you drop 2 AB before scorch/missles, you will return to 92% and not return to 100% if you do 1 AB scorch, but bounce between 85% and 92%.

    Now, the thing to remember is, and this is from my experience also, is that refreshing your bomb, recasting your rune of power, using ice shield, etc, really anything that uses a global, with enough haste AND while on your rune, will be enough time to almost bump you back to 100%. Really any interruption of the AB will do most of the time if you have enough haste, we just use scorch because it is very little mana right now and still does damage.

    Now, I don't know if the same holds true if you forge mastery. I'm assuming the cast time of AB is longer, and therefore it should line up about the same, but maybe not if your haste isn't high enough to support the regen needed. I haven't any experience going this route but it would be easy to test.

    I have a mod, TellMeWhen, that I have set for an icon to pop when I am at 92% mana. I am at 35% haste raid buffed, and the icon will pop up for a brief second on my first AB cast after 6 stacks, then disappear, and it is easy to want to cast another AB after, but I know if I do I won't regain my 100% mana. Its getting close though.

  15. #15
    eu(.)battle(.)net/wow/en/character/burning-blade/Doberman/simple

    Should I go full haste too? Im thinking about switching..

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Malfecto View Post
    From my experience, being haste forged and using scorch, you go to 6 stacks and then 1 AB and then a scorch or missles proc if you have it. This AB will take you to 92% mana, then the scorch cast or missles cast time will take you back just at 100% mana, so your next AB is 100% of your mastery bonus. If you drop 2 AB before scorch/missles, you will return to 92% and not return to 100% if you do 1 AB scorch, but bounce between 85% and 92%.

    Now, the thing to remember is, and this is from my experience also, is that refreshing your bomb, recasting your rune of power, using ice shield, etc, really anything that uses a global, with enough haste AND while on your rune, will be enough time to almost bump you back to 100%. Really any interruption of the AB will do most of the time if you have enough haste, we just use scorch because it is very little mana right now and still does damage.

    Now, I don't know if the same holds true if you forge mastery. I'm assuming the cast time of AB is longer, and therefore it should line up about the same, but maybe not if your haste isn't high enough to support the regen needed. I haven't any experience going this route but it would be easy to test.

    I have a mod, TellMeWhen, that I have set for an icon to pop when I am at 92% mana. I am at 35% haste raid buffed, and the icon will pop up for a brief second on my first AB cast after 6 stacks, then disappear, and it is easy to want to cast another AB after, but I know if I do I won't regain my 100% mana. Its getting close though.
    This is a fair post on what u wanna do, just wanna point out that it is not JUST the scorch/am cast that brings you to 100% mana, it is the scorch/am cast AND the cast of your next AB, so that when it CASTS you JUST hit 100%. Any time spent at 100% mana is considered a dps loss by most mages, so you only want to sit at 100% for a split second. Depending on haste levels and such, it will not always work out to 1 scorch/am per 1 blast at 6 stacks. Scorch is a shorter cast than AM, so if you go without missiles for a while, you will end up needing 2 scorches instead of one every now and then. Keep in mind arcane power will also change your mana management. Many people think you shouldnt scorch during arcane power, I am not one of these people, but try to have missiles procs when you go into arcane power.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9118&e=9898
    This is a log of last night's empress attempts, best one is selected currently. I (sicknez) am arcane haste, doveypwns is arcane mastery, and iceflames is fire. We are all similarily geared (about 390-395). Empress is a fairly patchwerk fight, with only a bit of cleave every now n then, so it is a pretty good standard if you want to compare the current competing mage specs.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    This is a fair post on what u wanna do, just wanna point out that it is not JUST the scorch/am cast that brings you to 100% mana, it is the scorch/am cast AND the cast of your next AB, so that when it CASTS you JUST hit 100%. Any time spent at 100% mana is considered a dps loss by most mages, so you only want to sit at 100% for a split second. Depending on haste levels and such, it will not always work out to 1 scorch/am per 1 blast at 6 stacks. Scorch is a shorter cast than AM, so if you go without missiles for a while, you will end up needing 2 scorches instead of one every now and then. Keep in mind arcane power will also change your mana management. Many people think you shouldnt scorch during arcane power, I am not one of these people, but try to have missiles procs when you go into arcane power.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9118&e=9898
    This is a log of last night's empress attempts, best one is selected currently. I (sicknez) am arcane haste, doveypwns is arcane mastery, and iceflames is fire. We are all similarily geared (about 390-395). Empress is a fairly patchwerk fight, with only a bit of cleave every now n then, so it is a pretty good standard if you want to compare the current competing mage specs.
    I checked your log mate, it seems that there is a huge difference in nether tempest damage between you guys

  18. #18
    You can reference this thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...cane-Haste-cap

    Imo haste is a bit more forgiving when it comes to your rotation because of the increased mana regen it gives but I think mastery pulls ahead slightly starting around 490 ilvl

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by OlorilSpinebreaker View Post
    You can reference this thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...cane-Haste-cap

    Imo haste is a bit more forgiving when it comes to your rotation because of the increased mana regen it gives but I think mastery pulls ahead slightly starting around 490 ilvl
    This is exactly correct.

  20. #20
    How would someone gem at Ilvl 485 ... All out haste in yellow sockets haste/int in red .. or pure int in red haste /int in yellow etc !
    Last edited by Aspex; 2012-12-30 at 12:38 PM. Reason: spelling

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