1. #1

    What makes a good late game champ?

    Heya.

    I like LoL and play it a lot, and I consider myself a fairly average player for the level I play at. However, while I know a lot about the game, I feel like I could understand it better. People often talk about good late game compositions and teams, and I know who some very good or very bad late game champs are, even aside from the obvious ones (Veigar, Nasus, Jax, etc). But why are these champions good ('these' being good late game champs. Not Veigar and Nasus. Those two are kinda obvious)? What makes a champion effective lategame, or ineffective?

    Thanks for any help.
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  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Reluctant's Avatar
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    Good scaling/ good teamfight ability.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Veigar/Nasus are trash on lategame if their early/midgame was lost due to a pair of deaths, don't consider them good late game champs.

    -Vi scales beautifully on lategame with the arpen bonus, the downside of her is the lack of sustain.

    -On ADC side you have corki/vayne and possibly ezreal (might add draven, depends on how much he farmed to get a early BT and ramp up damage midgame for a heavy lategame), Kog is also quite powerful with it's W

    -A fed cass can always deal a fuckton of damage in a matter of seconds... and also the unplayed and underrated viktor (yes, viktor, that thing that looks bad and is complicated to get a good grip on him? that one), with lots of calculations from TL players it ends up having a nice chunk of dmg
    Last edited by barackopala; 2012-12-26 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Just depends on building a role and sticking to it. Decide whether your going to be a tank, assassin, carry, offtank/support, pure support, bruiser, etc... Some champions are naturally tanky like darius, garen, voli, etc... they scale health on a large scale, late game you have to stick to a certain role.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctant View Post
    Good scaling/ good teamfight ability.
    Pretty much this. Take a look at Vlad for example, crazy scaling but low base damage on all his abilities, sustain abilities, aoe 12% increased damage taken from all sources and good aoe damage in general.

    Another example is Viktor, Zone control with his W, Very scarce scaling on his e, and tankiness from his q. Also AoE silence from his ulti, very underrated champion. Only drawback is his passive kind of hurts you more then it benefits you.

  6. #6
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    It's all about having good scalings on your abilities, and for carries a great on-hit (Vayne, Kog, Jax, Irelia etc), a good self-steoroid (Like Tristana, but her range is also what's making her a beast lategame), and/or a good escape mechanic. For tanks/supportive roles, hard-CC, good protective capabilities (Alistar, Zyra) and/or a good steoroid buff (Like Nunu). High AoE-damage, be it burst or sustained is also very, very good come teamfights.

    Also, @Barackopala: Nasus and Veigar will always be good lategame. That is complete and utter bullsh*t what you're saying. I'm sorry, but 30minutes does not equal lategame. And even @30mins any GOOD laner will (SHOULD) have around 150-250cs (+200 but whatever) making their shit hurt like fuck. They can both easily farm under turret (tougher for Veigar though for obvious reasons), and if their jungler comes you're dead. Wither is something you wont get away from, same with Veigar's cage; easy kills to pick up. Not to mention Nasus' tankyness once he gets items rolling. You REALLY underestimate the amount of farm needed for those champions to start 1 shotting (Veigar) and 2-4 shotting you (Nasus). Already at ~150cs do they start to become a big problem. Anyways, off-topic. D:

  7. #7
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Nasus and veigar if they get shutdown on early/midgame their laning will be almost utter crap, you can try to come back but it's still weak, you still have to ramp up the stacks quickly, at lvl 3 if you get succesfully ganked, your laning phase will be fucked up, you want items? then you need farm, If you want farm, you have to have a somewhat passive lane where advantages aren't pushed as hard as you want to, if you enemy is way too agressive you can get on a dire situation early on, thus leading to low cs... sure a good player will undoubtedly get good cs with a GOOD farm, but in order to do that you NEED farm... plus none of both are extremely good on teamfights, nasus can be kited around pretty much permanently, veigar is extremely squishy and with some MRes against him (like the runic bulkwark when on a teamfight) will be detrimental to him.

    Farming under tower? sure no problem -As long as your enemy isn't going all in or has got a nice chunk of burst with high sustain like irelia vs nasus-

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    Nasus and veigar if they get shutdown on early/midgame their laning will be almost utter crap, you can try to come back but it's still weak, you still have to ramp up the stacks quickly, at lvl 3 if you get succesfully ganked, your laning phase will be fucked up, you want items? then you need farm, If you want farm, you have to have a somewhat passive lane where advantages aren't pushed as hard as you want to, if you enemy is way too agressive you can get on a dire situation early on, thus leading to low cs... sure a good player will undoubtedly get good cs with a GOOD farm, but in order to do that you NEED farm... plus none of both are extremely good on teamfights, nasus can be kited around pretty much permanently, veigar is extremely squishy and with some MRes against him (like the runic bulkwark when on a teamfight) will be detrimental to him.

    Farming under tower? sure no problem -As long as your enemy isn't going all in or has got a nice chunk of burst with high sustain like irelia vs nasus-
    I'm so glad you said Irelia rofl. Nasus is problaly the biggest counter to Irelia. And what half-brained Nasus' have you played against since you think he can get kited so easily lol? Ghost+Shurelya's, Wither on the target (Some even run Exhaust if heavy on AD or if there's a tough laneopponent, wich, Irelia isn't.) means he isn't going anywhere. Nasus is problaly one those you really do not want to dive unless you have a low-cd quick disengage for when he uses Wither. Then there's also his ultimate to consider (You're dead if you dive <6 vs Nasus, so please. Unless you're Pantheon and can block turret hits. Fuck Pantheon.). He's also got an easy time escaping from ganks with Wither, Ghost and Ultimate if needed. Have your jungler help you out early (Wich you should when paired with Nasus, easy kills with Wither.). And for Veigar, a massive AoE stun isn't good for teamfights? Are we playing the same game? Oo They're both team-dependant, they require a certain team composition to function. Something that can hold off until late-ish game if it's Nasus, and something who can peel and hold enemies in their place with Veigar.

  9. #9
    For me its champs that deal true damage or percentage damage, like vayne/corki/olaf/darius/cho-gat/ahri who also are able to escape or enter team fights easily. Most adcs lack this and when getting jumped on are instant gibs no matter how hard they are fed. Also chars who scale with hp are mostly heavy favored late game because they can stack hp without the downside of not gaining damage. For supporters its all about team fights in late game so champs with ae ults like nunu/zyra/nami/sona are "better" and can be chained with amumu/fiddle/galio/ori etc. for maximum profit. I guess in the end its all about the cc a champ can bring, team with heavy ccs alawys wins if not doing mayor mistakes.

    best late game champs considering there damage/escape/damage/cc/engage are for me: cho, vayne, ahri, olaf, amumu, diana, corki, xin zhao, morgana, jax, kassa

    kog maw is pretty strong but easily killed, other like ww or udyr are easily shut down with kiting or cc, other scale not good in late game and there are some who just nobody plays like ap nunu who can deal a buttload of damage and is quite tanky, zilean with ap and cdr items or victor which i would consider pretty solid but their early game is just not good enough or are used as sup only.
    Last edited by Lumpi; 2012-12-26 at 07:46 PM.

  10. #10
    (just go with the hottest one and have your teammates rage at ya, what matters is having fun and having good eyecandy)

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Being fed.

    EDIT: Clarification to my 10 character post: All characters are good late game if they're Y/0/X at some point.
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  12. #12
    others have already said it, but: scaling.

    champions with %-damage scales extremely well into late game as well as champions with true damage per attack or equal constructions. other champions can farm to scale (nasus, veigar) past just buying items with the gold gained and Ryze just becomes an unstoppable tank with 200 mr and armor and inbuilt sustain with as much damage output as any other ap carry (nerf inc).

    a list of champions (I can think of right now) that naturally scales into the late game harder than other champions:
    kogmaw, % ap damage per attack, vayne % true damage + ad damage every third attack, corki true damage per attack, veigar 80% of target's ap added to his ultimate and +1 ap per CS with Q, nasus extra damage per CS with Q, irelia true damage that scales with attack speed.

    an example of a champion that doesn't scale well into late game is leblanc. her trick is blowing one person up repeatedly while they're squishy in the laning phase, however it becomes increasingly difficult out of laning phase.

  13. #13
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
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    You forgot one example: Tristana outranging everyone and having the highest attack speed boost in game.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Xanjori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    You forgot one example: Tristana outranging everyone and having the highest attack speed boost in game.
    For ADs the "steriod" has long been talked about as the reason some scale and some dont. Caitlyn being the best example, her lack of steriod means at full items in an AA fight with for example Tristana, Trist wins. The use of Nunu support has mostly gotten around this problem for Cait though.

    APs that scale well with gear and levels. For example Karthus and Vladimir! These two are two of the hardest scaling mages in the game. Levels do a huge amount for these guys, and well, once theyre geared the damage output becomes rather insane too.

    Tanky champions can also scale well, Warwick is one of the best I can think of. His self-sustain+tankiness means that as the game goes on it becomes increasingly difficult to 1v1 him, Shen probably also scales very well too, Rammus has a very scary late game, his W makes him tankier than any other character in the game and a 3second CC is massive.
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  15. #15
    AoE damage, Heals, Godlike initiation, more AoE damage and tankyness.

    In other words:


    Hecarim.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    Veigar/Nasus are trash on lategame if their early/midgame was lost due to a pair of deaths, don't consider them good late game champs.
    o.o

    Did you...just...say that Nasus...isn't a good lategame champ?

    o.o

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Led ++ View Post
    AoE damage, Heals, Godlike initiation, more AoE damage and tankyness.

    In other words:


    Hecarim.
    suffering is magic

    but yea champ with good team fight utility and scaling for ap/ad
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  18. #18
    try some lifesteal to longer last in teamfights or hp

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lopk View Post
    o.o

    Did you...just...say that Nasus...isn't a good lategame champ?

    o.o
    To be fair he does suck lategame if he was dominated or denied in lane and never got the chance to Q-farm. Either he has no Q farm and fairly limited power lategame - no substantial Q damage, so effectiveness is limited to an amazing slow, two decent AoEs and some tankiness. Of course that makes him effective, but no more then many other tanks, and if he was denied Q farm early on, it is likely his farm suffered from it and therefore is not very tanky. So Nasus can be one of the best late game champs, but since he isn't a very strong laner, and he relies on his lane phase, he can also be one of the weakest late game champs.
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

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