Should I use Blizzard?

[Deleted]

Hello, my magi brethren!

I've recently been playing a mage and I have to say, I'm loving the class. Portals, invisibility, conjuring food, fun abilities...I'm actually considering making my mage my main when he reaches 90!

However - I'm not sure what to use in AoE. I'm aware that we have a choice between three attacks - Arcane Explosion, Flamestrike, and Blizzard. Before playing a mage of my own, I assumed that you used the fittingly-named spell depending on your spec (for example, you'd use flamestrike if you were Fire, and Blizzard if you were frost). I've looked at Icy Veins and Noxxic for guidance, yet they don't even mention Blizzard.

Personally, Blizzard is my favourite AoE spell for mages, as I enjoy channelled spells (Dat Blood Elf channelling animation!) so I hope it's viable to use. But is it? What I've gathered is that I should slam down my AoE DoT and keep it up, and flamestrike on cooldown. My mage is dual-specced Arcane/Frost, and I enjoy both so I'll probably use both for raiding - but I'm leaning towards Arcane. After casting flamestrike and while it's on cd, should I run into the batch of enemies and spam Arcane Explosion? Or use Blizzard from a safe distance? I'm not that great a mathematician, so looking at the descriptions of both of the spells doesn't show a clear winner in DPS for me.

Can anybody give me advice on what to use? Thanks in advance!

[Deleted]

Glad you're enjoying the mage, its a really fun class .

Usually on large pack I just go up to 5 charge then Arcane Barrage, repeat ad nauseum .

Never used blizzard or Flamestrike, arcane aoe isnt that great at all, maybe the worst of the 3 specs imo. Or maybe I just didnt found the right way to aoe as arcane ;D.

[Aquamonkey]

If you are Arcane, you should use Arcane Explosion over Blizzard whenever possible.

Arcane has the best sustained AoE. Frost is good for burst AoE and Fire is only good for cleaving (not helpful for bringing a large group down evenly).

EDIT: For Arcane, use LB + glyphed FBlast or FBomb. Flamestrike on CD. AM cancelling. Abarr when the charges match the number of mobs -1. AE as filler. If you want to get fancy, you can glyph CoC and throw that in too.

[Deleted]

EDIT: For Arcane, use LB + glyphed FBlast or FBomb. Flamestrike on CD. AM cancelling. Abarr when the charges match the number of mobs -1. AE as filler. If you want to get fancy, you can glyph CoC and throw that in too.

As Frost, if CoC is glyphed, do I use it on CD or only when the mobs are frozen in place for extra damage?

[TheoriesLA]

For arcane the AoE is a little tricky on an optimal rotation to use. The best results I found was to use AE+Frostbomb and missiles whenever they proc'd. I kept up 6 charges the whole time.

[Aquamonkey]

On mobs that can be frozen (all specs):
You should time Freeze/Frost Nova with just before FBomb detonates. In AoE situations, FN will break during the GCD before your next spell. If you are using LB+FBomb glyph, you can try to time Freeze/FN with the explosion but they don't go off at the same time. More than likely your primary LB target will break the Freeze/FN before the other 2 detonate. If you aren't running FBomb as Frost, then you might as well use Freeze with glyphed CoC.

With Frost, you shouldn't use Blizzard, AE, or Flamestrike at all. Just Bomb, Frozen Orb, Ice Lance (with glyph) on proc, and Frostbolt as filler.

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 02:13 AM ----------

For arcane the AoE is a little tricky on an optimal rotation to use. The best results I found was to use AE+Frostbomb and missiles whenever they proc'd. I kept up 6 charges the whole time.

There is a lot of variety to be had with Arcane AoE. Just looking at the top parses for Wind Lord, you can see a ton of different rotations.

Some spam NT for AM procs, then ABarr at appropriate charge.
Some use LB+FB glyph.
Some use FBomb.
Some use CoC glyph.
Some ignore AoE and only use Bombs + ABarr cleave.
Some don't use Flamestrike.

[Sw1tch]

Aquamonkey, I think your last sentence regarding Frost specifically is highly situational. If you are on a group on maybe 5-10, then your suggestion is the best. But once you get into higher orders of mobs, blizzard and flamestrike should provide greater DPS then IL glyphed.

I have CoC glyped, so i use that off cooldown for most AoE pulls. I also attempt to time my FBomb and CoC together with Freeze. If Frozen Orb is up, using a random frost nova will probably benefit you as it will put Frozen Orb on shatter for a few seconds.

[Aquamonkey]

Aquamonkey, I think your last sentence regarding Frost specifically is highly situational. If you are on a group on maybe 5-10, then your suggestion is the best. But once you get into higher orders of mobs, blizzard and flamestrike should provide greater DPS then IL glyphed.

I have CoC glyped, so i use that off cooldown for most AoE pulls. I also attempt to time my FBomb and CoC together with Freeze. If Frozen Orb is up, using a random frost nova will probably benefit you as it will put Frozen Orb on shatter for a few seconds.

I was just looking at the top Frost parses for Wind Lord 10N, none of them used Flamestrike or Blizzard.

EDIT: Some of the 25N used Flamestrike. I only saw 1 using Flamestrike in 10/25H and he used it less than 10 times. Nobody used Blizzard.

[jtmzac]

I was just looking at the top Frost parses for Wind Lord 10N, none of them used Flamestrike or Blizzard.

EDIT: Some of the 25N used Flamestrike. I only saw 1 using Flamestrike in 10/25H and he used it less than 10 times. Nobody used Blizzard.

This math is only for frost and to decided wether to use frostbolt or something else as a filler not if aoe is better than using procs.

As usual don't trust my math but I tried to work out the damage for one target. The numbers include the FoF proc chance but not the chance to crit:
Frostbolt (includes 15% extra damage from debuff): 54050
Flamestrike: 25590
Blizzard: 14350
Arcane Explosion: 13170

The main thing to note is that the damage is assuming your target will be alive for the entire flamestrike dot. Frostbolt and flamestrike have the same cast time and blizzard ticks twice during the cast time of frostbolt or flamestrike.

Assuming my math is even close to correct 1-2 targets you just stick with the single target rotation 3+ you would use flamestrike on cd and 4+ targets you would use blizzard.

[Aquamonkey]

This math is only to decided wether to use frostbolt or something else as a filler not if aoe is better than using procs.

As usual don't trust my math but I tried to work out the damage for one target. The numbers include the FoF proc chance but not the chance to crit:
Frostbolt (includes 15% extra damage from debuff): 54050
Flamestrike: 25590
Blizzard: 14350

The main thing to note is that the damage is assuming your target will be alive for the entire flamestrike dot. Frostbolt and flamestrike have the same cast time and blizzard ticks twice during the cast time of frostbolt or flamestrike.

Assuming my math is even close to correct 1-2 targets you just stick with the single target rotation 3+ you would use flamestrike on cd and 4+ targets you would use blizzard.

I'm just going by what the top parses for Wind Shaper are since that's the longest AoE-fest in the game atm. Regardless of theory, in practice, nobody in top 10 is using Blizzard or Flamestrike on 6+ targets for that fight.

EDIT: I know the theory should put AoE spells above Frostbolt+cleave. That's why I checked WoL, because it seems counterintuitive.

[Saegno]

For fire or arcane I pretty much go with the tried and true method of Mage bomb on everything I can, flamestrike on cd, spam arcane explosion, use procs as they come up.

Blizzard just hits like a wet noodle compared to arc explosion+flamestrike.

[jtmzac]

I'm just going by what the top parses for Wind Shaper are since that's the longest AoE-fest in the game atm. Regardless of theory, in practice, nobody in top 10 is using Blizzard or Flamestrike on 6+ targets for that fight.

Aoe is still lacking in theorycrafting and top parses are not alway the best indicator of what is the best.

You're only going to be fighting 4 adds on wind lord on normal difficulty unless you're using an alternate strategy so I personally use flamestrike but not blizzard as frost on that fight.

[Aquamonkey]

Aoe is still lacking in theorycrafting and top parses are not alway the best indicator of what is the best.

You're only going to be fighting 4 adds on wind lord on normal difficulty unless you're using an alternate strategy so I personally use flamestrike but not blizzard as frost on that fight.

I generally disregard the parses of people who don't do any AoE at all (aside from bombs). I saw some of them in Arcane (I looked more closely at that). Some never used AE, Flamestrike, or ABarr cleave which leaves me to believe they just tunneled the boss with increased dmg to rank. This was harder to spot because there is no consensus for Arcane AoE rotations.

But when the general pattern for Frost across all sizes and difficulties show nobody using Flamestrike or Blizzard, it probably means something. Though, I didn't go down below the top 10 so my sampling of the WoL isn't that great.

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 03:29 AM ----------

I went back and checked about every 5 of the top 40 for each size and difficulty. I saw 1 person use Blizzard on 25N. A few used Nether Tempest. A few used Flamestrike. A couple used CoC. Mostly people used FBomb or LB+FB, Ice Lance, Frostbolt, and Frozen Orb only.

[Kiry]

There was a tip to use Flamestrike as your Dot proc for Light so you can use Frost orb on Wind lord. I haven't personally done this yet, but it sounds interesting!

I only use Blizzard & Flame strike on the little adds before Imp Vis.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Too bad about Blizzard being pretty weak. Some very useful tips here though, so I appreciate the help! I think I'll go with Keeping up LB, spreading it with Fire Blast, Flamestriking on cooldown, casting AE whenever an enemy is in range, and I'll take down the annoyingly weak swarms of enemies with Blizzard (but only if I'm too far away to reach them with AE.)

[Aquamonkey]

There was a tip to use Flamestrike as your Dot proc for Light so you can use Frost orb on Wind lord. I haven't personally done this yet, but it sounds interesting!

I only use Blizzard & Flame strike on the little adds before Imp Vis.

I'll have to try that out.

EDIT: It does work. The only problem is the whole of P2, you won't be able to proc the trinket unless you also use Flamestrike on the boss.

[Sw1tch]

Hmmm, aquamonkey if you are correct that even on wind lord Flamestrike and blizzard arent being used, then we have a problem. If they aren't even useable in those numbers, the spells are essentially useless.

I find that rather ironic, Flamestrike was put on a cd for the exact purpose of being a "use this off cooldown" AoE spell. It seems to need some significant buffing.

[reflection]

Hmmm, aquamonkey if you are correct that even on wind lord Flamestrike and blizzard arent being used, then we have a problem. If they aren't even useable in those numbers, the spells are essentially useless.

I find that rather ironic, Flamestrike was put on a cd for the exact purpose of being a "use this off cooldown" AoE spell. It seems to need some significant buffing.

I think Flamestrike is worth using it, because of the dot on the floor. I think nobody uses Blizzard there because overall it's not an AoE them down as fast as possible but it's more that you want to get a specific group down as fast as possible. So it's more a cleave fight and not a big AoE fight. I sometimes do use Cone of Cold, because it is really great if you use it in combination with pet nova at the exact same time + the glyph