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  1. #1

    A common misconception concerning Blade Flurry

    So, browsing through these forums I've found a lot of posts regarding Combat's Blade Flurry and how awesome it is during the Wind Lord and Amber-Shaper encounters in Heart of Fear. Well, yes, Blade Flurry is very awesome but it is currently overestimated by the majority of rogues as soon as there are damage amplifiers involved.

    Blade Flurry currently works like this:

    If there is a damage taken debuff on the primary target, your damage on the secondary target will not benefit from this debuff at all. You will not deal 600% additional damage on the adds during the Wind Lord encounter on heroic mode. Neither will you deal XXX% more damage during the Amber-Shaper encounter onto secondary targets if you handled the Abomination debuff well. Elegon is no exception here. If he has more stacks in Phase 2 and Phase 3, you will not deal more damage with Blade Flurry onto any kind of adds.

    If there is a damage done buff to your primary target, your damage on the secondary target will fully benefit from this buff. You will deal 100% increased damage to Garalon if you cleave off of his legs. Very awesome.


    Anyways, I've seen a lof of these posts on this forum and others and thought some people would like this knowledge.

  2. #2
    Uh, I'm pretty sure you do? That was the whole point of being combat on Halfus Wrymbreaker instead of the superior assassination, because his 300% debuff would cleave off on the adds. So unless they changed it for MoP, you're not right.

  3. #3
    It works like this:
    Main target has damage-taken debuff. Your standard melee hits increase on this target.
    THEN, because of how Blade Flurry works (read tooltips), it cleaves these stronger melee hits onto the other target.

    Is it going to be a massive damage boost on Wind Lord? NO. In fact, your damage will look less powerful compared to other stronger AoE DPS as long as you're grouping the adds up.
    On Elegon, your raid shouldn't position them to cleave anyways because that will require too much raid movement on Heroic.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    If there is a damage taken debuff on the primary target, your damage on the secondary target will not benefit from this debuff at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    If there is a damage done buff to your primary target, your damage on the secondary target will fully benefit from this buff.
    You do know these are opposite things, right?

    Changing buff to debuff makes no difference, unless you have proof. It for sure worked on debuffs for Halfus.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2012-11-06 at 04:54 AM.

  5. #5
    This is so ridiculously wrong. Blade Flurry copies weapon strike hits onto a target near you. That's it. Any weapon damage dealt to the primary target is copied to the second one. There's no other way to put this.

    I forget if damage taken effects affect Blade Flurry ability damage itself one way or the other (I think they do), but in your specific example it wouldn't matter because you'd just be attacking the more vulnerable target anyway.

    What you may be experiencing is that it's not a chain skill like Chain Lightning. Blade Flurry hits a target near YOU, not the primary target. Sometimes, obnoxiously huge enemy target circles, hit boxes, or huge enemies themselves can cause undesired issues with wanting to hit the right targets.
    Last edited by Senka; 2012-11-06 at 05:12 AM.

  6. #6
    You can observe how BF acts on the Stone Guard Trash. Target auras affect the damage from BF.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    The cleave damage is based on the damage taken on original target, its the same with SS on Arms. Copies damage done and does it to other, regardless of debuffs on other targets.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
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    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  8. #8
    I'm pretty sure Blade Flurry simply copies the damage done to the original target unto another target.
    - You're doing 100k single-target dps, with BF up.
    - Target A has a 100% damage taken debuff.
    - You will do 200k dps on Target A.
    - Target B gets close and the 200k dps is copied over to him.
    - You're now doing 2x200k dps.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    I'm pretty sure Blade Flurry simply copies the damage done to the original target unto another target.
    - You're doing 100k single-target dps, with BF up.
    - Target A has a 100% damage taken debuff.
    - You will do 200k dps on Target A.
    - Target B gets close and the 200k dps is copied over to him.
    - You're now doing 2x200k dps.
    *100k physical damage after missing 20% energy regen pace before anyone can attack this comment*

    There may be some fights it doesn't work properly for, but that's a boss ability issue rather than a blade flurry issue. EITHER way, if we're going to argue this for specific current fights my rogue isn't at atm, let's get some logs up? Check damage done without debuff, apply debuff, check flurry damage, profit for answers for all!

    Edit: 20%*
    Edit 2: seems to have changed with MoP.
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-11-06 at 09:00 PM.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Vinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    *100k physical damage after missing 30% energy regen pace before anyone can attack this comment*
    How do you figure you're doing half damage? 30% reduced energy regen doesn't halve your single target dps, only damage done on sinister strike and eviscerate. So much of rogues damage comes from Passive Sources such as auto attacks / poisons.

    To my knowledge I thought It's simply a copy of whatever your current target takes, copied over to the closes add nearby.
    Last edited by Vinho; 2012-11-06 at 06:24 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    *100k physical damage after missing 30% energy regen pace before anyone can attack this comment*
    I thank you for trying to save my skin... But... I have to do this! :P
    Blade Flurry only reduces energy regen by 20%, not 30%.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinho View Post
    How do you figure you're doing half damage? 30% reduced energy regen doesn't halve your single target dps, only damage done on sinister strike and eviscerate. So much of rogues damage comes from Passive Sources such as auto attacks / poisons.

    To my knowledge I thought It's simply a copy of whatever your current target takes, copied over to the closes add nearby.
    I don't think he meant that. I think he was simply saying that it obviously wouldn't be exactly double your single target damage because of the energy penalty (and poisons).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinho View Post
    How do you figure you're doing half damage? 30% reduced energy regen doesn't halve your single target dps, only damage done on sinister strike and eviscerate. So much of rogues damage comes from Passive Sources such as auto attacks / poisons.
    You misunderstood him, he was defending the post, not challenging it. What he's talking about when he says "100k dps" is the initial dps, not the buffed dps or the copied dps. He was simply pointing out that the nerf to energy regen was already taking into account.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinho View Post
    How do you figure you're doing half damage? 30% reduced energy regen doesn't halve your single target dps, only damage done on sinister strike and eviscerate. So much of rogues damage comes from Passive Sources such as auto attacks / poisons.

    To my knowledge I thought It's simply a copy of whatever your current target takes, copied over to the closes add nearby.
    That was my point. 100k as a starting point NOT counting poisons on the primary target, allowing all 100k to copy over. Having flurry up in the first place reduces your single target DPS so comparing cleave to single target blah blah blah. It's important people realize that that comparison is -poisons and assuming BF is up when only attacking 1 target. When the target is 100% debuffed, it then takes 200k DPS from physical damage, and when another target moves into range, that 200k is mirrored.

    Edit: Oh god we're all typing at the same time!

    Edit 2: We should really go back and see if it's changed for previous bosses (Halfus/Zon'ozz) at this point in time to see if the behavior is regular or not.
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-11-06 at 11:38 AM.

  15. #15
    I guess this thread proves how common this misconception is when 6 of 8 posters reply that I'm absolutely wrong.

    Here's a challenge. Look through any Wind Lord log and check for high Eviscerate crits (easiest to spot) and check if the Blade Flurry hit did nearly the same. Find only one.

    But here's proof on my part first. I just took a random combat log which ranked highly on World of Logs. Note this is after 2 add groups died and the boss takes 66% additional damage. 142k * 1.66 is pretty close to the original 241k where debuffs make the last 6k damage up.


    So, anyone else wants to prove me wrong? Go ahead. As I said, find me any log on Wind Lord where this behaves differently.
    Last edited by Ashvael; 2012-11-06 at 11:31 AM.

  16. #16
    It's true, secondary hits of BF won't benefit from main target debuffs. Also they are affected by all AOE reducing auras.

    EDIT: this isn't always the BF behaviour, on Halfus the boss damage debuff cleaves over adds - i think it's just a per-boss mechanic, probably made by Blizz to balance/even out damage.

    The strenght of BF is its uptime and not the damage.

    EDIT2: WTF all gold challenge done?? PLEASE BRING ME TOO (gratz anyway)
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2012-11-06 at 11:05 AM.

  17. #17
    The mechanic was changed in Mists of Pandaria without any big notice which is why I've tried to help some people out here. So it's very likely that BF will always (or at least until changes) work as described above for any future bosses.

  18. #18
    OK. Nice one. I thought I should have been doing more damage on Garalon :P

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    OK. Nice one. I thought I should have been doing more damage on Garalon :P
    It works as you'd expect on Garalon, given that it's a buff.

    Sorry for doubting you OP. DELIVARD

  20. #20
    I wonder whether it's intended or a bug.

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