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  1. #41
    Most of the top pvp streamers think spriests are currently the most op class/spec in the game, i dont play one myself but i do play a lock and they arent good right now. So based in my personal experience with locks and the opinion that pro players have on spriests, i have to say priests are better right now by a long shot. No need to mention warlocks are getting nerfed in 5.2 and spriests are not being touched.

    Id give locks a 6/10 in pvp
    SPriest 9/10 not 10/10 because they are always oom, thats their only issue.
    Last edited by MaxJr; 2012-12-29 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #42
    Spriest are viable because of Feral and Fmage dominace. Every melee class is a hardcounter to Spriest.

    Instead of spreading lies, you people should play a Spriest and come back.
    Last edited by Tenobaal; 2012-12-29 at 03:46 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenobaal View Post
    Spriest are viable because of Feral and Fmage dominace. Every melee class is a hardcounter to Spriest.

    Instead of spreading lies, you people should play a Spriest and come back.
    This is simply not true. Spriest are at (actual) high rating in a lot of comps. It's just the best caster right now.

  4. #44
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    This is simply not true. Spriest are at (actual) high rating in a lot of comps. It's just the best caster right now.
    The best caster is Frost Mage. At high ratings, spriests Must pair with a mage or warrior - because a spriests job is support. Spriest + Mage, or Spriest + Warrior comps make up over 90% of spriest comps above 2400 this season. The other 10% consist of Spriest+Feral and Spriest+Lock (shadowplay, always destro or demo though now - because no one needs double support specs). Spriest is the best support DPS class right now. Affliction is an undervalued but competitive alternative Support DPS class, they have less team healing - but more team mobility (portals), CC (spammable Fear), damage reduction (curses), and defensive dispels (unbound will for themselves, imp for their healer).

    With spriest healing nerfed (via pvp power), affliction is in the prime spot to overtake shadow as the best support spec. This is because if the only time you are vulnerable to losing a teammate is when your healer is CC'd - an imp-wielding aff lock can do more about keeping their healer in the fight than a spriest can. A spriest has mass dispel, which has a cast time, twice the cooldown, is targeted (can be moved out of, takes a second to target in addition to the following cast), and if the spriest is CC'd or interrupted - the dispel doesn't work.

    Nobody CC's the imp, or kicks the imp (also because its instant, its not even possible to do so) - people do CC or sit interrupts on the spriest when they CC a healer and go for a kill though: that's not possible against affliction. Mass dispel has a colossal mana cost, frequent use of it and our very expensive level 90 talents, and our healing - run a spriest OOM 2-3 minutes into any real arena game - not the case for affliction - their utility performs at 100% until the match ends.

    When warlocks realize their best chance of success is to not DPS, but to play an affliction spec with the mindset that they are a support class - not a true DPS class - affliction's representation will skyrocket. It's not as fun as blowing all your cooldowns and blowing people up - that's your teammates job (ie. frost mage, warrior, feral) - your job is to roll curses on everyone, to call a fear target, to chain fear them into DR, and then to call the next target and repeat, to always run away at the first sign of taking damage, and to keep your healer dispelled the whole fight - 5.0+ Affliction is basically Shadow prior to s8.

    You probably won't know your team scored a kill until your fear/curse don't land on that greyed out enemy unit frame - you won't feel like you contributed to the kill - but in reality - support classes are amazing: and locks that play like support rather than focusing on their DPS are wholly viable alternatives to shadow, with some real advantages and disadvantages to shadow. It's a good spec, don't knock it until you try it.

    Also, regarding Afflictions damage being useless because its not burst, that's not true either. Yes - to score kills you have to have burst - but you don't have to be the burst on your team. A frost mage or warrior or feral or hunter or rogue or ret or frost dk or windwalker or etc are all capable of killing someone who is at half health and doesn't have a defensive cooldown active by themselves (without your help), either if that opponent doesn't have a healer bombing heals (and possibly cooldowns) into them - and sometimes even if your teammate just scores a lucky crit or two. Your teammate is (hopefully) intelligent, they will always pick the low health target to put their burst into.

    The advantage that pressure classes have always had (and will always need to have) is that they aren't cooldown dependent to put out their pressure, burst classes usually are cooldown dependent for their burst. So whenever your dots just happen to bring someone too low, that is precisely when your teammate will swap, and that is when your teammate will burst (because your teammate is intelligent). Pressure classes create windows of opportunity, they don't need to also have burst if their teammate can cover the burst requirements themselves: and every season there are always a fistful of classes capable of this. Having only pressure is rarely enough, and fortunately for Affliction - they also have a ton of utility - Shadow has similar or less utility, and similar or less pressure - but they have a touch of burst they can also contribute: but don't mistake afflictions lack of burst for lack of utility, or lack of pressure - it has reams of both, and both of those things matter a lot
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-12-29 at 07:05 PM.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    The best caster is Frost Mage. At high ratings, spriests Must pair with a mage or warrior - because a spriests job is support. Spriest + Mage, or Spriest + Warrior comps make up over 90% of spriest comps above 2400 this season. The other 10% consist of Spriest+Feral and Spriest+Lock (shadowplay, always destro or demo though now - because no one needs double support specs). Spriest is the best support DPS class right now. Affliction is an undervalued but competitive alternative Support DPS class, they have less team healing - but more team mobility (portals), CC (spammable Fear), damage reduction (curses), and defensive dispels (unbound will for themselves, imp for their healer).
    I think you can only cauterize yourself. (edit: nvm, i was referring to cauteriz, not singe magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    You have to think in term of opportunity cost, Dark regeneration is an instant buff, throw it for survivability and keep doing your buisness
    Harvest life is channeled, so you're not DPSing or CCing while doing it and it open your shadow school to interrupt, which easily stop the healing and prevent you from blowing any defensive cooldown such as Port of Bargain
    Same goes for glyph of drain life 2%+30% is 2.6%, On a 400k hp warlock this is 10400 hp/s, to which you apply the -30% healing debuff : 7280 hp/s. A misery.
    7k hp/s simply isnt worth the cost, I dont see any competitive alternative to Dark regeneration, nor now, nor in 5.2.
    Your numbers are wrong, you calculated the heal for Drain Life (2%) not Harvest Life (3-4,5%), more than doubling the HPs (5,85% HP/tick).

    (before battle fatigue ofc)
    Last edited by Azari; 2012-12-30 at 08:34 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    The best caster is Frost Mage. At high ratings, spriests Must pair with a mage or warrior - because a spriests job is support. Spriest + Mage, or Spriest + Warrior comps make up over 90% of spriest comps above 2400 this season. The other 10% consist of Spriest+Feral and Spriest+Lock (shadowplay, always destro or demo though now - because no one needs double support specs). Spriest is the best support DPS class right now. Affliction is an undervalued but competitive alternative Support DPS class, they have less team healing - but more team mobility (portals), CC (spammable Fear), damage reduction (curses), and defensive dispels (unbound will for themselves, imp for their healer).

    With spriest healing nerfed (via pvp power), affliction is in the prime spot to overtake shadow as the best support spec. This is because if the only time you are vulnerable to losing a teammate is when your healer is CC'd - an imp-wielding aff lock can do more about keeping their healer in the fight than a spriest can. A spriest has mass dispel, which has a cast time, twice the cooldown, is targeted (can be moved out of, takes a second to target in addition to the following cast), and if the spriest is CC'd or interrupted - the dispel doesn't work.

    Nobody CC's the imp, or kicks the imp (also because its instant, its not even possible to do so) - people do CC or sit interrupts on the spriest when they CC a healer and go for a kill though: that's not possible against affliction. Mass dispel has a colossal mana cost, frequent use of it and our very expensive level 90 talents, and our healing - run a spriest OOM 2-3 minutes into any real arena game - not the case for affliction - their utility performs at 100% until the match ends.

    When warlocks realize their best chance of success is to not DPS, but to play an affliction spec with the mindset that they are a support class - not a true DPS class - affliction's representation will skyrocket. It's not as fun as blowing all your cooldowns and blowing people up - that's your teammates job (ie. frost mage, warrior, feral) - your job is to roll curses on everyone, to call a fear target, to chain fear them into DR, and then to call the next target and repeat, to always run away at the first sign of taking damage, and to keep your healer dispelled the whole fight - 5.0+ Affliction is basically Shadow prior to s8.

    You probably won't know your team scored a kill until your fear/curse don't land on that greyed out enemy unit frame - you won't feel like you contributed to the kill - but in reality - support classes are amazing: and locks that play like support rather than focusing on their DPS are wholly viable alternatives to shadow, with some real advantages and disadvantages to shadow. It's a good spec, don't knock it until you try it.

    Also, regarding Afflictions damage being useless because its not burst, that's not true either. Yes - to score kills you have to have burst - but you don't have to be the burst on your team. A frost mage or warrior or feral or hunter or rogue or ret or frost dk or windwalker or etc are all capable of killing someone who is at half health and doesn't have a defensive cooldown active by themselves (without your help), either if that opponent doesn't have a healer bombing heals (and possibly cooldowns) into them - and sometimes even if your teammate just scores a lucky crit or two. Your teammate is (hopefully) intelligent, they will always pick the low health target to put their burst into.

    The advantage that pressure classes have always had (and will always need to have) is that they aren't cooldown dependent to put out their pressure, burst classes usually are cooldown dependent for their burst. So whenever your dots just happen to bring someone too low, that is precisely when your teammate will swap, and that is when your teammate will burst (because your teammate is intelligent). Pressure classes create windows of opportunity, they don't need to also have burst if their teammate can cover the burst requirements themselves: and every season there are always a fistful of classes capable of this. Having only pressure is rarely enough, and fortunately for Affliction - they also have a ton of utility - Shadow has similar or less utility, and similar or less pressure - but they have a touch of burst they can also contribute: but don't mistake afflictions lack of burst for lack of utility, or lack of pressure - it has reams of both, and both of those things matter a lot
    The best caster is Spriest, the fact that Warrior/Feral/spriest/mage are paired together doesnt mean anything, it's the best classes right now, so people stack them to win, mage works the same.
    Affliction isnt undervalued, Spriest have more damage, more assist, more survivability, the only thing a lock still have is his Blood fear, and it's removed in 5.2

    Spriest assist isnt nerfed in 5.2, and lock is nerfed, so the situation can only go worse.

    You dont use imp in competitive play, you need a spell lock to score a kill. Imp is useful in outlast comp, but Spriest and melee do a far better job than affli at outlasting, so there isnt a point.

    The mindset of a support class is already there, it's the support capability that are not there. There is a general lack of dps and a general lack of CC, the problem is almost mathematical.

    You can somehow oom a spriest, but that wont last. On the other hand, you can easily kill a warlock.

    Affliction damage isnt useless because it's not burst, it's useless because it's not rewarding enough for the amount of cast you have to get. As soon as someone want to shut you down, they will shut you down.

    Look at the highest level of play (Not only 2k2), what do we see ? Mostly Warriors, then Spriests. Then if we scroll down 1 page or two, we'll see one warlock. This is pretty clear to me.

    Your numbers are wrong, you calculated the heal for Drain Life (2%) not Harvest Life (3-4,5%), more than doubling the HPs (5,85% HP/tick).

    (before battle fatigue ofc)
    My numbers are not wrong, they were solely adressing the Drain life glyph
    Harvest life have other issues that does not make it a viable choice and they were explained above

  7. #47
    Well yes, you were doing the calculation for Drain Life compared to Dark Regeneration, instead of Harvest Life to Dark Regeneration.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Azari View Post
    Well yes, you were doing the calculation for Drain Life compared to Dark Regeneration, instead of Harvest Life to Dark Regeneration.
    Well no I wasnt, I gave my though about Dark Regeneration vs Harvest life AND then explained that the Life drain glyph just isnt worth the slot

  9. #49
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    @yvaelle. It's cool you know how priests work, but please, stop talking complete bullshit about warlocks. Sorry I have to say this, but while some of the theories sound great, when you think about it for a few sec, you realise it's complete none senses

    First of all, let me mention that almost every single toprated team has a mortal strike, in addition to battle fatigue, that happens to be a 50% healing reduction.

    So now, let me start with your amazing imp idea.
    1) cauterize heals for 12%, on a 2% hp cost, so a 10% heal over 12sec and 30sec cooldown. Not to bad, except it's being halved to 5% over 12sec with a 30sec cooldown.
    On current healthvalues, that's a 20k heal every 30sec, or about 700hps.

    2) You talk about how warlocks are a pressure class. Using an imp means you sacrifice a lot a damage already, in addition to a blanket silence. A fully offensive affliction has troubles bringing enough pressure, and you think warlocks will be better when they play more defensive with less pressure. I think not...

    3) Imp dispel is on a 10sec cooldown and only dispels 1 harmful effect. This means that whenever you want to dispel something, you cannot be certain you dispel the correct debuff (unless there is only 1 ofcourse). The second problem with this, is that warlocks mostly play with resto shamans, who are already extremely hard to cc by magical effects, so another dispel is not really needed).

    4) The imp has 100k hp, people don't need to interrupt or to cc it, because it dies before you even have a chance to heal it. And trust me on this, the imp is squishy enough to die in 2 hits and most people will just kill it instantly to reduce your usefulness to non existent.

    5) As I mentioned before, you lose your blanket silence. At low rating this doesn't mean a lot, but at higher ratings, a properly timed blanket silence can make or break the match.


    Another issue I have with your whole theory is that you'd not use blood fear.

    1) The skill itself is so overpowered right now, that not using it just plain stupid, not to mention how useful it is to have an instant cc on a very short cooldown. Not only you use it as cc, but it's also used as an interrupt which can create a ton of pressure when used on healers and to prevent certain things like a druid going to instant cyclone. All together, this can result in a lot of pressure.

    2) When you spend your time fakecasting and hardcasting fear, you ain't doing damage. Less damage, means less pressure, means less chance to get a kill, means warlock is useless. The fact that blood fear in instant means you have more time for damage, so more pressure.

    3) With the amount of cc, instants and interrupts going on, you really wont be able to constantly chaincast fear, thus noone really cares about the 10sec cooldown on blood fear.


    A next issue I see is that warlocks should be using drain life or even harvest life. However, again there are several flaws with your whole theory.

    1) You deal little damage for little healing, thanks to mortal strike and battle fatigue

    2) Dark regeneration is a defensive cooldown that also increases healing taken by 25%. When the other team is bursting, you are making it easier for your healer to heal you, while healing yourself a decent amount as well. Burst damage gets countered by burst healing, not sustained healing. Also, when the other team isn't bursting, your healer should be able to keep you alive, thus no need to use drain life or harvest life.

    3) Drain and harvest life are extremely easy to interrupt, little damage, little healing and a big interrupt me sign above your head is not really a good thing.


    And honestly, there are several more issues with your whole theory that all sound amazing, but make no sense at all when you think for 2sec about it.

    Also, am I the only who thinks: Why don't you just bring a second healer instead if all you want is support and pathetic damage ( you sacrifice so much damage by playing supportive, it turns out to be pathetic).

    Why not bring a resto druid instead. They bring better cc cyclone ( > fear imo), roots, pounce and whatever else they have speced into. In addition to that they bring a defensive dispel, that actually dispels everything. With just using moonfire and spamming wrath, your damage won't be a lot lower than a warlock who is going full supportive mode and guess what, you probably bring better burst as well than an affliction warlock.

    Oh right, that simply doesn't work and so doesn't affliction warlock as complete support work.

    Affliction warlocks are supposed to be chemical battletanks that bring a lot of pressure and cc in order to be considered as a good spec.
    Now, they no longer bring that amazing pressure. They still bring a decent amount of pressure when going full offensive, but when playing defensive, that pressure goes down the drain.
    Now with bloodfear, there is nothing wrong on the cc part, however, blood fear is being nerfed to the ground and normal fear simply doesn't cut it. On a scale of 10, were bloodfear is a 10, a normal fear is 5.
    Battletank is also no longer a good word. Demon armor is now a passive with 10% healing increase instead of 30% and pre mop soul link is also gone. Warlocks are very squishy now, being forced to run from any damage. And as I said already, warlocks should be playing as offensive as possible to bring the required amounts of pressure, they should be tanking their enemies while spreading aids, not running away instantly.

    Also, if affliction as a support is so great, why does absolutely noone play it? People now hardly play affliction as an offensive spec, but noone at all who plays it as a support.
    It's like saying that elemental shamans are the very best dps class for this and that reason, and then come with the claim that representation doesn't equal how good a spec is. It's one of the things I saw you say about affliction.
    Now, let me get this right. Representation of course doesn't equal how good a spec is, but it gives a very good idea. To come back on my elemental shamans, they are the best dps, but noone has realised that yet, so they have low representation. That's just nonsense.
    Affliction simply has a low representation because it's not an amazing spec. End of story.

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    I remember TBC like if it was yesterday...

    "If you want to deal damage as shadow, go warlock"



    Who'd guess stuff by then.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    When warlocks realize their best chance of success is to not DPS, but to play an affliction spec with the mindset that they are a support class - not a true DPS class - affliction's representation will skyrocket.
    Wonder why all the intelligent high rated locks out there haven't found this very special secret yet!!! But word is out now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Affliction is the least popular spec amongst warlock players right now, popular and good are often very different things.
    Aff was the best and most played lock spec in PVP in whole cata, The reason ppl not play it now in PVP its becuase its bad.
    Last edited by Hellfury; 2012-12-30 at 10:10 PM.
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  12. #52
    Affliction sucks right now in comparison to Shadow. Shadow is pretty much in every top comp right now.

    I think the biggest thing about affliction, other than its defenses, which is the same problem the majority of other classes have, is that they have no good spell protection for their dots. Their damage can be easily dispelled with no consequences. If they get better spell protection for their dots, then they'll put them halfway there to being a top PvP class again.

  13. #53
    Destro is such a cc punching bag, the nerf to demo was kinda severe considering touch of chaos doenst hit hard at all and chaos wave was all we had( i get hit by 140 k shockwaves and have 8,5k resi). Wlocks could be good if we could have an interrupt and a dispell, and our fears not cost health, sp's got almost every cc we have ( thats being used, not talking seduction here) and its just better, plus less buttons and more healing, they beat us in every single way, if anything sp's need a nerf they are by far the best class, and did i say mass dispell?

  14. #54
    i do agree with yvaelle about afflic being support, you can't be the damage dealer all the time, and being able to control an opposing team is just as important, perhaps even more important then raw damage. a lock combined with a bursty spec like arms or frost can deal incredible spread pressure and open up opportunities for lethal hard swaps.

    once blood fear gets nerfed warlocks who remember how to fear spam will come back. and the thing with afflic's spread pressure is that even while you are faking that fear you are still doing damage, thats the wonder of dots.

    afflic's sustained damage is incredibly good, afflic's problem that it gets screwed by dispels, and i think thats why people are not playing it. and UA does need a buff, its backlash might need to be doubled or tripled or somehow reworked to make dispelling a lock's dots less appealing.

    blizz seems to be trying to stop warlock's being as tanky as they have in the past, and following the survivability through mobility model. i do think portal should break stuns, but i don't think lock survivability is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

    spriests are still incredibly good, and have waaaaay more comps then people like to say they do, but casters in general are still all very overtuned ( with perhaps the exception of ele shams) and all of them need nerfs to either their damage ( mage, lock, boomkin) or their support (spriest, boomkin)
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i do agree with yvaelle about afflic being support, you can't be the damage dealer all the time, and being able to control an opposing team is just as important, perhaps even more important then raw damage. a lock combined with a bursty spec like arms or frost can deal incredible spread pressure and open up opportunities for lethal hard swaps.

    once blood fear gets nerfed warlocks who remember how to fear spam will come back. and the thing with afflic's spread pressure is that even while you are faking that fear you are still doing damage, thats the wonder of dots.

    afflic's sustained damage is incredibly good, afflic's problem that it gets screwed by dispels, and i think thats why people are not playing it. and UA does need a buff, its backlash might need to be doubled or tripled or somehow reworked to make dispelling a lock's dots less appealing.

    blizz seems to be trying to stop warlock's being as tanky as they have in the past, and following the survivability through mobility model. i do think portal should break stuns, but i don't think lock survivability is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

    spriests are still incredibly good, and have waaaaay more comps then people like to say they do, but casters in general are still all very overtuned ( with perhaps the exception of ele shams) and all of them need nerfs to either their damage ( mage, lock, boomkin) or their support (spriest, boomkin)
    I like how you trnslated the problem, indeed something needs to be done about the rest they either have support ( hybrid classes) or they do way more dmg( mages, sp's boomers). I think we have a decent amount of survivability through sac pact; the nerf is utterly stupid in my opinion maybe its op but its defensive and since we lack some offensive power blizz should let us keep it plus it also makes a trade off between gosac and sac pact( 1 extra global ). But on topic sp's have vt which is shorter cast time and more utility. Sadly im rerolling sp, even though i like playing wlock way more. Not that im playing for anything but just dont like getting shit on.

  16. #56
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i do agree with yvaelle about afflic being support, you can't be the damage dealer all the time, and being able to control an opposing team is just as important, perhaps even more important then raw damage. a lock combined with a bursty spec like arms or frost can deal incredible spread pressure and open up opportunities for lethal hard swaps.
    Ok, so you're not going to deal damage and just cc... Why not bring a rogue, a mage or a druid instead that just focusses on cc?

    once blood fear gets nerfed warlocks who remember how to fear spam will come back. and the thing with afflic's spread pressure is that even while you are faking that fear you are still doing damage, thats the wonder of dots.
    What pressure? Your dots deal damage yes, but pressure, nah.
    Because of malefic grasp, you don't bring enough pressure with multi dotting anymore, the damage is just to low. Also, normal fear brings a lot less pressure than blood fear. Not only because you have more time to deal damage, but you can interrupt stuff with it as well, and, it's a lot harder to avoid.

    afflic's sustained damage is incredibly good, afflic's problem that it gets screwed by dispels, and i think thats why people are not playing it. and UA does need a buff, its backlash might need to be doubled or tripled or somehow reworked to make dispelling a lock's dots less appealing.

    What do you consider good? There's a reason why healers care very little about the damage an affliction warlock does without haunt and malefic grasp up, it's pathetic.
    Also, buffing the damage from ua would result in people stacking affliction warlocks in rbg. I agree it needs more punishment, but doubling-tripling the damage is not the way to go.

    blizz seems to be trying to stop warlock's being as tanky as they have in the past, and following the survivability through mobility model. i do think portal should break stuns, but i don't think lock survivability is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.
    Blizzard already succeed on that after they nerfed demon armor so badly and removed soul link, however, aside from demonology, we really didn't get any extra mobility. Also, warlocks right now are the squishiest class. Feel free to have a laugh with that, then compare warlocks with every other class and come back to say I'm right, as always when I'm talking about locks.


    I've said it in a previous post, about support affliction.
    Why don't you just bring a second healer that goes dps instead of a support affliction warlock?

    A resto druid brings more cc, defensive dispels, better healing, more overall utility , more burst but slightly less sustained damage.
    And guess what, if you are playing suppliction, you sacrifice that much damage already, it doesn't even matter anymore. All you do as suppliction is cc'ing and trying to stay alive, damage, forget about that.

    Think about it.
    If suppliction is as good as people say, than gladiators would be playing it. I for one do not, and neither do others, simply because it doesn't work.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Ok, so you're not going to deal damage and just cc... Why not bring a rogue, a mage or a druid instead that just focusses on cc?
    because rogues apparently suck ( i don't believe it) and lock control is better then boomkin control.

    What pressure? Your dots deal damage yes, but pressure, nah.
    afflic's sustained is incredibly high, i don't know what you are doing that makes you think otherwise. healers don't worry about afflic's dots because they can pull them all off and neuter their pressure with no real punishment, and thats a problem and its why UA needs some sort of buff to its backlash. i'm at a loss for what it could be, and tripling the damage was the only thing i could think of that might not have a huge effect on pve.

    Not only because you have more time to deal damage, but you can interrupt stuff with it as well, and, it's a lot harder to avoid.
    do you not understand how overpowered that its? previously all the instant fears either had hefty cooldowns or were melee range only. blood fear drastically reduces the skill required to play a lock and only locks who remember how to fear spam and fake people out with it will succeed again once they nerf it.

    casting in general needs to come back, i remember putting a lot of time and effort into learning how to fake people out and juke my casts, and my ability to do both those things won me a lot of matches, it was a big deal in bc. even in wolk where everything was crazy hasted people were still casting. the instant casts thing didn't really start until DWTR allowed casters to start being about to solo people with their dots.


    Also, buffing the damage from ua would result in people stacking affliction warlocks in rbg. I agree it needs more punishment, but doubling-tripling the damage is not the way to go.
    stacking affic for rbgs? because how is that any different from the current destro stacking? people are always going to stack casters for rbgs, thats just the way it is.


    Blizzard already succeed on that after they nerfed demon armor so badly and removed soul link, however, aside from demonology, we really didn't get any extra mobility. Also, warlocks right now are the squishiest class. Feel free to have a laugh with that, then compare warlocks with every other class and come back to say I'm right, as always when I'm talking about locks.
    hi. ret paladin here. i wear plate armor and i probably have worse survivability then you do. sorry.

    locks have a lot of ways to regain health and they have a lot of defensive cooldowns. and the model with lots of small and medium cooldowns seems to work a lot better in the current bursty pvp situation then the model with one big or two big cooldowns in terms of survivability. they might might not have as good survivability as mages but its certainly on par with boomkins and its waaaaay better then ele shamans.


    demo can still randomly gibb people with out making a single hardcast, and that why people are still playing it.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  18. #58
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    because rogues apparently suck ( i don't believe it) and lock control is better then boomkin control.

    afflic's sustained is incredibly high, i don't know what you are doing that makes you think otherwise. healers don't worry about afflic's dots because they can pull them all off and neuter their pressure with no real punishment, and thats a problem and its why UA needs some sort of buff to its backlash. i'm at a loss for what it could be, and tripling the damage was the only thing i could think of that might not have a huge effect on pve.

    do you not understand how overpowered that its? previously all the instant fears either had hefty cooldowns or were melee range only. blood fear drastically reduces the skill required to play a lock and only locks who remember how to fear spam and fake people out with it will succeed again once they nerf it.

    casting in general needs to come back, i remember putting a lot of time and effort into learning how to fake people out and juke my casts, and my ability to do both those things won me a lot of matches, it was a big deal in bc. even in wolk where everything was crazy hasted people were still casting. the instant casts thing didn't really start until DWTR allowed casters to start being about to solo people with their dots.

    stacking affic for rbgs? because how is that any different from the current destro stacking? people are always going to stack casters for rbgs, thats just the way it is.

    hi. ret paladin here. i wear plate armor and i probably have worse survivability then you do. sorry.

    locks have a lot of ways to regain health and they have a lot of defensive cooldowns. and the model with lots of small and medium cooldowns seems to work a lot better in the current bursty pvp situation then the model with one big or two big cooldowns in terms of survivability. they might might not have as good survivability as mages but its certainly on par with boomkins and its waaaaay better then ele shamans.

    demo can still randomly gibb people with out making a single hardcast, and that why people are still playing it.
    First of all, I said druids, not boomkins. Nonetheless, cyclone is a stronger cc spell than fear, not to mention druids bring knockbacks, roots and stuns as well.

    Secondly, affliction sure brings good sustained damage...... in PvE.
    You really think affliction is doing good damage when haunt is getting instantly dispelled and channeling MG is asking to get interrupted? Guess what, if affliction actually did good sustained damage, people wouldn't be playing destruction and demonology at all. Dispelling ua wasn't a big deal either in cata, but we brought so much pressure with our damage that getting a 5sec silence was actually a bad thing. Now, we lack that pressure, and any high rated warlock will agree with me on this.

    Also, I know how strong blood fear is, I think I've said it several times already it's a bit too strong, but the normal fear on the other hand, is currently rather weak.
    With blood fear you could interrupt heals, break cc chains, prevent instant cc, and give yourself a lot more time to dps. Every single class has several ways now to prevent people from casting, constantly having to fakecast fears means you won't be dotting stuff up and if you happen to get interrupted, you are screwed. Where a blood fear is a 10/10, I wouldn't give the normal fear more than a 5. ( I'm not comparing it with cc from other classes in case it isn't clear)

    Also, locks have a lot of ways to regain health... Lets take a look:
    -50% hp over 12sec on a 2min cooldown....
    -10% from embertap if destruction, which doesn't matter since we talk about affliction
    -8% if speced into mortal coil, which is almost never taken.
    -1%/sec from drain life, which can be interrupted easily, not to mention that both damage and healing from it is pathetic
    -6% heal every 30sec over 12sec from cauterize master, which requires you to use an imp which is a massive loss in damage
    -siphon life, which heals so little it's not even worth using the glyph in pvp.

    Now, blood fear costs 10% hp, 20% in 5.2. Unbound will costs 20% hp as well, lifetap 15% hp.
    If you still think we have such an amazing healing, think again.

    Oh and, those defensive cooldown? A 40% damage reduction+interrupt immunity every 3min and dark bargain which is a 8sec immunity every 3min...
    That's a lot... /sarcasm. Not to mention that most offensive cooldowns are on a 2min timer.

    Also, just the fact that ret wears plate makes them more durable than warlocks currently are, not to mention ret has plently of cooldowns they can use as well.

    Also, demo can only insta gibb people who are undergeared, or already half dead. Even when both your chaoswaves crit, which is a 1% chance of happening, you only deal about 50-60% damage, when no defensive cooldowns are used. Demonology is only about trying to finishing off the target that your mage/warrior has brought low, nothing else.

    Also, the fact you are comparing warlocks with 2 of the weakest speces in the game says enough.
    And even now I really feel like disagreeing you on you saying that boomkins have worse survivability. Ever heard of bearform, good druids know when to use it.

    And in case you don't know, I'm a multi glad warlock, I know my class better then anything and anyone else.
    Again, if warlocks were good, people would play them, now, they are the 3rd least played class, above rogues and monks which are getting massive buffs while locks are getting some massive nerfs.
    And while representation doesn't mean that much, in cata they were at the top, in 5.2 they are going to the absolute bottom.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-02 at 07:07 AM.

  19. #59
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    shadow priest, there is no comparison.

  20. #60
    Just wanted to post a little concrete example about "support warlock" if Blood Fear ever gets nerfed and chain casting normal fears comes back. It's a great idea when you talk about it and you think it might work, but it doesn't. Why? Because this support model that people are proposing is Destruction during Cataclysm, with or without the imp:
    The spec back then had a ton of CCs, but you could opt for more survivability and damage with the imp (although I hated that build). Your job wasn't to do damage, it was to lock down the enemy team and reduce their burst through crazy chain-multi CCs. Meanwhile your partner rogue/mage would take the opponent down and you'd give him the opportunity to do so by Fearing and locking down the healer and seducing the second DPS. Damage really wasn't the main goal of it, you'd use Soul Shards for pet-switches in order to do unexpected brains and lock-out a healer completely, or even summon a Succubus to use the whip-lash as an interrupt or Paladin Bubble interrupt (before it got hot-fixed).
    Did anybody end up seeing Destruction as a viable spec? No. How many Destruction arena videos at high ratings have you seen during cataclysm? Probably none.
    And no, "dispelling immolate lulz" wasn't the source of Destruction's failure. If you played well you could easily cover it up or lock down the dispeller when you were in need of that Conflagrate to poke your opponent.

    Now, Affliction in MoP is close to Destruction in Cataclysm, except it has less CC, different survivability, but a bit more burst. Think about it: You hardcast as much, have more or less the same Soul Shard mechanics and bring the same utility. When you take into consideration that the amount of CCs doubled since MoP, how do you expect a model that hard-casts as much and has the same role as Destruction to succeed, if the previous spec itself didn't make it during an expansion in which it was actually possible to cast and pressure opponents? As long as CC and burst stay as they are it won't.
    Try hard-casting against a warrior, even with the Shock-wave nerf. It's close to impossible when there are two other players stun-locking you to death, unless you're using Blood Fear...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    You may be on to something here... GC claimed Ret Paladins killed his parents. Could it be that Warlocks drained Celas' dog soul?

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