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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    They are a for profit company
    Which is not the same as "greedy".

    Person experience from my self and others
    Which falls well into the expected results from an email stating that you shouldn't expect an answer.

    Asking someone to prove their augment is not
    So prove your argument.
    I didn't make an argument, I called you on yours.

    Micro transactions on a sub based game. Seems greedy to me
    I have no problem with what it "seems" like to you.

    Apples to oranges
    It's called a spectrum.
    And Blizzard is far from the troublesome end.

    Micro transactions on a sub based game.
    Rare, often for charity, and ONLY vanity items. I have no problem with this in ANY game. But then, I don't even have a problem with pay2win games.

    hypocrite much?
    I obviously don't see that, so you would have to do better than ask, and actually forumulate how you see it as such.

    Proff? From others post and personal experience they don't
    They don't handle posts on an individual basis in your opinion? So you're saying here, that all posts are handled the same way? Or did you misunderstand?

    Many of them got deleted while the other previous one was at post cap
    It's too easy to just make that claim.
    Here's what I saw: Countless new threads from people who simply wanted their own post on the matter, posting while the thread was active, and NOT following the simple rules for creating a follow-up thread.

    You might not like the truth but that does not mean people are going to give up on it.
    You've already given up on it. You're not defending it with actual arguments. You're just being stubborn. And it was a stupid claim to begin with. An utter generalization.

    Half ass moderation like I said
    Who does it better?

    I seen that my self. The old forums were a lot better
    As were the people posting.
    Hardly a coincidence.

    the forum community is the way it is because blizzard lets it be that way
    I agree. They are far too lenient.
    Like I said early on: I would swing the ban hammer a lot more.

    Watch out now. He seems to think he knows how blizzard works
    I assume they work how they say they work, and see very little to contradict that.
    They do indeed provide different strikes for different transgressions against the same rule. As they said they would.

    They are very random with the bans. who knows how long they will ban you for
    Based on the rules, and human mods, I would expect a certain amount of seemingly randomness amidst mostly logical reasons.
    And that is indeed what I see.
    "Very" random? Not so much. Just what you'd expect. Same as this site, and most others.

    Agreed. Any pro blizzard opinion can bash others and not be banned.
    And as I have shown, the same can be true for a Blizzard critical opinion. Which you claimed was impossible.
    Your initial assumption was flawed. It was biased. And I find your every post to continue said bias.

    You don't see me preaching that Blizzard is perfect. I try a more balanced approach, and I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. Blizzard's human, they make stupid mistakes (Cata - ring a bell? And D3 - hellooo?), their CSR's are human, they make mistakes, and that's totally expected. And yes, they try to find ways to make money, but they've been very open and steadfast about not going overboard in game-altering microtransactions. Sure, we get a stupid pony from time to time, but it's completely without impact on your raiding proficiency, your chance of getting a World First!-achievement, or your PvP rankings.

    Frankly, your arguments have been way off, and that is the only reason I've been arguing against you. It's not to paint a perfect picture of Blizzard, it's to point out the flaws in your propaganda piece. We could easily find a common ground and agree to criticise Blizzard on several points, but not as long as you attack them on points that they don't deserve to be attacked on, that you base solely on anecdotal evidence and assumptions.
    If you chose rock as a weapon, in order to beat a pair of scissors, don't start whining when you get pwn'd by a piece of paper.

  2. #262
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    There are a lot of threads open with criticism.
    The biggest advise I can give is this: Behave and you will stay unbanned.

    And behaving doesn't mean that you'll have to be the nicest guy in the room, just don't break any damn rules.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    There are a lot of threads open with criticism.
    The biggest advise I can give is this: Behave and you will stay unbanned.

    And behaving doesn't mean that you'll have to be the nicest guy in the room, just don't break any damn rules.
    There are a lot more threads locked and deleted with criticism

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 04:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Which is not the same as "greedy".
    They are pretty greedy tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Which falls well into the expected results from an email stating that you shouldn't expect an answer.
    When you appeal something they should answer

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    So prove your argument.
    I didn't make an argument, I called you on yours.
    As said before from personal experience and other having the same personal experience. You made a wild claim and have not been able to prove anything or disprove my argument. but this is never going to go anywhere. So keep replaying and I will do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    I have no problem with what it "seems" like to you.
    What you think =/= what everyone else thinks

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    It's called a spectrum.
    And Blizzard is far from the troublesome end.
    As said before Apples to oranges

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Rare, often for charity, and ONLY vanity items. I have no problem with this in ANY game. But then, I don't even have a problem with pay2win games.
    charity vanity item give them tax breaks, but Mounts, pets, Faction changes, name changes, transfers, guild transfers, guild name changes etc. are all mico transactions.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    I obviously don't see that, so you would have to do better than ask, and actually forumulate how you see it as such.
    Figure it out. you seem to know it all

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    They don't handle posts on an individual basis in your opinion? So you're saying here, that all posts are handled the same way? Or did you misunderstand?
    I read your post there.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    It's too easy to just make that claim.
    Does not make it less true.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Here's what I saw: Countless new threads from people who simply wanted their own post on the matter, posting while the thread was active, and NOT following the simple rules for creating a follow-up thread.
    Option

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    You've already given up on it.
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    You're not defending it with actual arguments. You're just being stubborn.
    Someone else is being a stubborn fanboy refusing to listen to any logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    And it was a stupid claim to begin with. An utter generalization.
    Option again. I personalty find the blind fanboing you have been doing pretty annoying


    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Who does it better?
    MMO champ has better moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    As were the people posting.
    Hardly a coincidence.
    Well they did lift all bans but its mostly the same people.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    I agree. They are far too lenient.
    Like I said early on: I would swing the ban hammer a lot more.
    Well they should also enforce the rules equally. Not let pro blizzard people break the rules and that's ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    I assume they work how they say they work, and see very little to contradict that.
    They do indeed provide different strikes for different transgressions against the same rule. As they said they would.
    it is a matter of option really.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Based on the rules, and human mods, I would expect a certain amount of seemingly randomness amidst mostly logical reasons.
    And that is indeed what I see.
    "Very" random? Not so much. Just what you'd expect. Same as this site, and most others.
    Human error really is not a excuse for it. MMO champ has human mods and I have not seen any issues here.


    or is MoanaLisa really a Draenei :O


    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    And as I have shown, the same can be true for a Blizzard critical opinion. Which you claimed was impossible.
    Where?

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Your initial assumption was flawed. It was biased. And I find your every post to continue said bias.
    Option again

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    You don't see me preaching that Blizzard is perfect. I try a more balanced approach, and I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. Blizzard's human, they make stupid mistakes (Cata - ring a bell? And D3 - hellooo?), their CSR's are human, they make mistakes, and that's totally expected. And yes, they try to find ways to make money, but they've been very open and steadfast about not going overboard in game-altering microtransactions. Sure, we get a stupid pony from time to time, but it's completely without impact on your raiding proficiency, your chance of getting a World First!-achievement, or your PvP rankings.
    Faction changes and server transfers do help chance of getting a World First!-achievement, or your PvP rankings. Look how many top guilds went horde look how many pvpers fc human. Blizzard is not human but a company.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    Frankly, your arguments have been way off, and that is the only reason I've been arguing against you. It's not to paint a perfect picture of Blizzard,
    Sure seemed that way

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    it's to point out the flaws in your propaganda piece.
    "Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. " Options do not equal Propaganda

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyJones View Post
    We could easily find a common ground and agree to criticise Blizzard on several points, but not as long as you attack them on points that they don't deserve to be attacked on, that you base solely on anecdotal evidence and assumptions.
    Option again

  4. #264
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    There are a lot more threads locked and deleted with criticism
    But not due to the criticism, but due to the trolling and rule-breaking.

    And please, can we quit those multi-quotes?
    It's almost 3 full pages on my 1920x1080 and it's mostly some fighting over and over.
    Focus on the real and important parts and try to make it shorter..
    PLEAAAAAAASE!

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    But not due to the criticism, but due to the trolling and rule-breaking.

    And please, can we quit those multi-quotes?
    It's almost 3 full pages on my 1920x1080 and it's mostly some fighting over and over.
    Focus on the real and important parts and try to make it shorter..
    PLEAAAAAAASE!
    from just my personal experience they are very bias on who they decide broke the rules and who's didn't and what the punishment is.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    But not due to the criticism, but due to the trolling and rule-breaking.

    And please, can we quit those multi-quotes?
    It's almost 3 full pages on my 1920x1080 and it's mostly some fighting over and over.
    Focus on the real and important parts and try to make it shorter..
    PLEAAAAAAASE!

    They are pretty on who they decide broke the rules.

    As for the multi-quotes I will try to keep it shorter just for you <3

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 06:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    from just my personal experience they are very bias on who they decide broke the rules and who's didn't and what the punishment is.

    Agreed. Intend of deleting the threads for people trolling it. they should ban the people trolling. Also they should enforce their rules across the board

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    from just my personal experience they are very bias on who they decide broke the rules and who's didn't and what the punishment is.
    Ofcourse they are, that's because you work with people instead of robots.
    But they won't delete threads that didn't break any rules.

    I've seen them removing constructive and good critical threads, but those had pages full of attacks and harassment.
    Sometimes it's just better to delete the entire thread instead of only banning 20 people.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Ofcourse they are, that's because you work with people instead of robots.
    But they won't delete threads that didn't break any rules.

    I've seen them removing constructive and good critical threads, but those had pages full of attacks and harassment.
    Sometimes it's just better to delete the entire thread instead of only banning 20 people.
    why? if those people are Harassing other paying customers?

    **is that the forums blizzard wants you can shut anyone up just by enough trolling?

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    why? if those people are Harassing other paying customers?
    **is that the forums blizzard wants you can shut anyone up just by enough trolling?
    Sadly that is how fora work if you just have enough people.
    Even in here threads get locked because people derail it and troll to the point where it's almost impossible to continue with the original intent.
    That's because most people only care to read the first and last page.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Sadly that is how fora work if you just have enough people.
    Even in here threads get locked because people derail it and troll to the point where it's almost impossible to continue with the original intent.
    That's because most people only care to read the first and last page.
    Think that speaks more for the moderation being done than that of the posters that are there, they figure if they know they can get away with it why not.
    Last edited by Dadwen; 2013-01-12 at 03:19 AM.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Sadly that is how fora work if you just have enough people.
    Even in here threads get locked because people derail it and troll to the point where it's almost impossible to continue with the original intent.
    That's because most people only care to read the first and last page.
    When it comes to feedback threads, especially the ones about CRZ, it would be better to delete the posts trying to derail them, rather than lock the entire thread. Why not dish out bans to the people actually trying to stir up problems? From the CRZ threads, all I saw was the anti's sharing their thoughts calmly and then a pro pops in, says they like it, the anti's ask why, to give reasons, and from there the pro just starts attacks.

    So maybe once a pro troll started attacking, if they deleted and banned the troublemaker there would be no reason to lock or delete a thread that has perfectly good feedback. Instead, the mods on the official forums let the pro-blizzard trolls rile up those that are having issues with Blizzard, and rather than smack the trolls, they wait for the anti's to get frustrated then bans the people that were following the rules. It's one thing to hold criticism against you with a certain, another to have a bias and let the ones that are kissing up to you, get away with everything.

    And that there is the issue. When you favor one side, the side that supports you and will let them get away with everything imaginable, just to wait for the other people that are against your views to get frustrated and slip up, then you are no longer a neutral power. You no longer value anyones opinions but your own. I've played plenty of MMO's. SWG's developers started behaving just like Blizzard. When they started doing that, all the good people unsubscribed and moved on to their competition and SWG's fate was sealed. It is no more. Companies I've played MMO's with, is Turbine, Bioware, PWI, Cryptic, and them companies have very strict rules. They keep their communities in line. They don't take sides, even if the side causing the problems favors them, they get the banhammer just like anyone else.

    Professional companies regardless of customer views of them, ensure that their forum moderation staff, remains 100% neutral. They are there to keep the peace. Kind of like real life. Police show up at a domestic dispute, and even if the one that is causing the problems says how wonderful the police are, they are still there to enforce the law and supporter or no, the one causing the problems gets the punishment on equal terms like anyone else. Blizzard has decided to follow SWG's stance when it came to their game. They are right, the customers, no matter how big a majority hate something about the game, either fall in line or face consequences. And it is this very stance that is unappealing to the customers.

    One of my friends, very long time friend mind you, been playing with him since the early starcraft battle.net days, has told me just last night he will never buy another Blizzard title again. He loves starcraft, the story, but he doesn't believe single player mode should force people to log into their account. If Battle.net goes down, there's no single player mode. And in that regard, I kind of agree with him. Single player mode should be just that. Single player mode, with no required battle.net connection. Kind of like the original Diablo, Diablo2, Starcraft, Warcraft3 days. You had online play to play with friends on battle.net, but if your internet went down, or battle.net went down, you could still enjoy the single player aspect.

    Blizzard has changed, and in my opinion, they have changed for the worse. Polish and Blizzard used to be 2 words that went together. Now, CRZ has proven they do not. If they had this stance when they were going to do Real ID on the official forums, a lot of people would be perma banned, and tons more would of unsubscribed. They used to listen to the community and adapt to the players needs. Now, it's their way or the highway, as we have seen in Ghostcrawler's interviews and watercoolers. Ghostcrawler said they were being bullish, and he is correct. And a lot of customers don't like bullish companies. People get fed up after being pushed too much. I will not be surprised if it ever comes out that full/high population servers end up going down to medium, medium pops going down to low, and low pops becomming recommended servers for new players. It would not surprise me if that is already happening now.

    The same customers that brought their friends to WoW, are now starting to take their friends and family with them to other MMO's. And for what reason? Because Blizzard has decided to change their long standing attitude that made them millions of customers.

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Ofcourse they are, that's because you work with people instead of robots.
    But they won't delete threads that didn't break any rules.

    I've seen them removing constructive and good critical threads, but those had pages full of attacks and harassment.
    Sometimes it's just better to delete the entire thread instead of only banning 20 people.
    Not really. the 20 people are a problem and should be liable to the rules

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 07:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    why? if those people are Harassing other paying customers?

    **is that the forums blizzard wants you can shut anyone up just by enough trolling?
    Agreed. that is what seems to happen. If a thread is over trolled it is deleted and the trolls don't get a ban

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 07:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Sadly that is how fora work if you just have enough people.
    Even in here threads get locked because people derail it and troll to the point where it's almost impossible to continue with the original intent.
    That's because most people only care to read the first and last page.

    The mods here seem better

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 07:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Think that speaks more for the moderation being done than that of the posters that are there, they figure if they know they can get away with it why not.
    This all the way. If they are not punished why would they change their behavior?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 08:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    When it comes to feedback threads, especially the ones about CRZ, it would be better to delete the posts trying to derail them, rather than lock the entire thread. Why not dish out bans to the people actually trying to stir up problems? From the CRZ threads, all I saw was the anti's sharing their thoughts calmly and then a pro pops in, says they like it, the anti's ask why, to give reasons, and from there the pro just starts attacks.

    So maybe once a pro troll started attacking, if they deleted and banned the troublemaker there would be no reason to lock or delete a thread that has perfectly good feedback. Instead, the mods on the official forums let the pro-blizzard trolls rile up those that are having issues with Blizzard, and rather than smack the trolls, they wait for the anti's to get frustrated then bans the people that were following the rules. It's one thing to hold criticism against you with a certain, another to have a bias and let the ones that are kissing up to you, get away with everything.

    And that there is the issue. When you favor one side, the side that supports you and will let them get away with everything imaginable, just to wait for the other people that are against your views to get frustrated and slip up, then you are no longer a neutral power. You no longer value anyones opinions but your own. I've played plenty of MMO's. SWG's developers started behaving just like Blizzard. When they started doing that, all the good people unsubscribed and moved on to their competition and SWG's fate was sealed. It is no more. Companies I've played MMO's with, is Turbine, Bioware, PWI, Cryptic, and them companies have very strict rules. They keep their communities in line. They don't take sides, even if the side causing the problems favors them, they get the banhammer just like anyone else.

    Professional companies regardless of customer views of them, ensure that their forum moderation staff, remains 100% neutral. They are there to keep the peace. Kind of like real life. Police show up at a domestic dispute, and even if the one that is causing the problems says how wonderful the police are, they are still there to enforce the law and supporter or no, the one causing the problems gets the punishment on equal terms like anyone else. Blizzard has decided to follow SWG's stance when it came to their game. They are right, the customers, no matter how big a majority hate something about the game, either fall in line or face consequences. And it is this very stance that is unappealing to the customers.

    One of my friends, very long time friend mind you, been playing with him since the early starcraft battle.net days, has told me just last night he will never buy another Blizzard title again. He loves starcraft, the story, but he doesn't believe single player mode should force people to log into their account. If Battle.net goes down, there's no single player mode. And in that regard, I kind of agree with him. Single player mode should be just that. Single player mode, with no required battle.net connection. Kind of like the original Diablo, Diablo2, Starcraft, Warcraft3 days. You had online play to play with friends on battle.net, but if your internet went down, or battle.net went down, you could still enjoy the single player aspect.

    Blizzard has changed, and in my opinion, they have changed for the worse. Polish and Blizzard used to be 2 words that went together. Now, CRZ has proven they do not. If they had this stance when they were going to do Real ID on the official forums, a lot of people would be perma banned, and tons more would of unsubscribed. They used to listen to the community and adapt to the players needs. Now, it's their way or the highway, as we have seen in Ghostcrawler's interviews and watercoolers. Ghostcrawler said they were being bullish, and he is correct. And a lot of customers don't like bullish companies. People get fed up after being pushed too much. I will not be surprised if it ever comes out that full/high population servers end up going down to medium, medium pops going down to low, and low pops becomming recommended servers for new players. It would not surprise me if that is already happening now.

    The same customers that brought their friends to WoW, are now starting to take their friends and family with them to other MMO's. And for what reason? Because Blizzard has decided to change their long standing attitude that made them millions of customers.
    Well said and I agree 110%. I played since bc that's what 6 years? and I unsubed for the first time ever. I did not like the new stance from blizzard or a lot of the things in mop. So I did what many others did voted with my wallet

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