Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Guild collapse dilemma.

    About a week ago 1 of my guilds tanks unexpectedly quit our 10 man raid guild and his reason was that with his new job he couldn't handle raiding as much as we had been (5 nights a week normally). He never once mentioned anything about this until he posted on our forum to announce he was leaving. Progress was going quite well and we had managed to down Heroic Grand Vizier Zorlock, Heroic Wind Lord and Heroic Amber shaper in the space of 7 days and he actually left the night we downed amber shaper (11/16 heroic for the whole tier). We asked if maybe reducing our raiding times might tempt him back but he said he'd already accepted an offer to join another guild.

    A couple of days after this I logged in to find another 5 members of our raid team had left including all 3 of our healers and 2 of our best dps. They then joined our old tank in a new guild they'd formed. Only 1 of them gave any reason at all for leaving and that was that he wanted to carry on raiding with those who left which was fair enough. The others said nothing and about as much as i've been able to discover was that "they all had their own reasons".

    This left those remaining in the guild with the job of trying to pick up the pieces and get the guild raiding again. The plan was that we would try and find another guild in trouble who would like to merge with us. Unfortunately we are on a fairly poor realm and so we were really looking for people to xrealm to our realm to join us. Our GM was away for a few days over christmas so 1 of our officers was trying to sort this out till he comes back.

    Today I logged in and found out that the officer (our 1 remaining tank) who was trying to sort things out in the GM's absence had also quit and joined the other leavers in their new guild. This leaves just 4 of the original core raid team in the guild (all of us dps).

    I have been offered a place in the new guild but i'm torn between being unhappy with the leavers for the way they have gone about things and their lack of any real explanations and my wish to carry on raiding at a good level and my loyalty to my GM and the few remaining members.

    If I stay i'm going to be raiding with half a raid team of people who I don't know and we are going to have to partly learn all the fights again... I also imagine there will be a period of gearing up again (possibly involving clearing normal mode content for a while) and i'm sceptical any new players we manage to find will be upto the standard of those they are replacing because it's hard to find good players who would be willing to come to a deadbeat server to join a guild with the problems ours currently has.

    I'd feel really guilty to leave the guild when it's already in such big trouble and our GM is a really good guy who has put in a lot to get the guild to where it is considering we only started raiding half way through Firelands.. I'd also stated that I had no plans to join the others in leaving the guild but seeing our remaining tank leave today has made me start to waiver..... I love raiding and want to continue to do so at a good level. I can't afford to xrealm a bunch of characters and there are no other decent guilds on the server that I could join so if my current guild doesn't get back on it's feet i'd probably be condemning myself to guilds that are like 3/6 heroic MSV and 0/10 HOF and TOS and I would find that really boring / frustrating.

    TLDR. My guild is falling apart. Should I be loyal and try and rebuild or join the others who have left in their new guild.

    What would you do ?
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2012-12-27 at 02:06 AM.

  2. #2
    im find it a bit strange that they left and reformed a raiding team thats pretty much the same except a few dps that only raid a few days less.
    would have seemed more logical too mention this in guild and have it turn into a 3 night raiding guild instead,

    (but hey people do weird unexpected stuff)

    i probally would have left and join the new guild if i really liked raiding with those guys, though i would have placed some serious questions why they did it like this.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by felhunter View Post
    im find it a bit strange that they left and reformed a raiding team thats pretty much the same except a few dps that only raid a few days less.
    would have seemed more logical too mention this in guild and have it turn into a 3 night raiding guild instead,

    (but hey people do weird unexpected stuff)

    i probally would have left and join the new guild if i really liked raiding with those guys, though i would have placed some serious questions why they did it like this.
    Exactly what I think too. I can't understand why they all left then basically recruited the whole team.... I've said this to them and I just can't get any clear answers. I think they've asked all but maybe 2 players to join them and those that haven't been asked including the GM are really nice good people and decent players. It makes no sense. If they'd said somethng like they wanted to reduce the raiding hours i'm sure that would have happened. I've heard really vague reasons such as the 1st tank who left didn't enjoy tanking with our 2nd tank... but then they recruited the 2nd tank anyway so that seems a bit strange. I also heard something about them being unhappy with the tactics but we have a forum where we can discuss tactics to improve what we are doing... Nobody dictates.

  4. #4
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Castiel's Army
    Posts
    5,364
    It sounds like it wasn't unexpected to a few people, at the very least the tank who left and formed the new guild.

    As much as I hate to admit it, I've done the same thing a couple times myself. People get to talking and realize there is something they don't like about the way things are being done...whatever it may be...loot, the raid leader, a specific raid member, any little thing really. Then instead of dealing with the problem they decide it might be better to silently go their own way.

    I once left a guild to help form a new one when the raid leader decided he'd rather be the guild leader as well and do loot his own way and such. Another time I left with a portion of one guild's 25 man to form a 10 man before Cata (and shared raid lockouts) launched, because we didn't like the way loot was done, some of the people in the raid, and believed we could progress further without carrying the extra dead weight.

    From the sounds of your personal situation, I'd say you need to make a difficult choice. If you really want to continue raiding, you should probably join the people who left, or server transfer. It doesn't sound like you'll be able to recruit the people you need to raid with what you now have left. Your GM will likely be upset but I'd bet that if you talked to him about it, he would understand.

    If there's one thing I've learned from six years of WoW it's to do what is going to make you happy. Many people stay where they will be unhappy for far too long because they don't want to upset online friends.

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,982
    Well... if you really like the people you used to raid with, i would join them. A reason why they want to form their own guild may be because they disagree with the current raid leader/Guild leader... or maybe they just want a guild without all the socials in it (If you have those). There can be many reasons why a number of people wanna leave a guild, only to form another with half of the old members.

  6. #6
    You geared him up, he got better offers and left. (You geared him up and it will happen over and over)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    About a week ago 1 of my guilds tanks unexpectedly quit our 10 man raid guild and his reason was that with his new job he couldn't handle raiding as much as we had been (5 nights a week normally).
    This sounds like he just made a BS excuse to quit the guild and make/join a new one. If he cannot handle raiding because of his job, why does he hurriedly make a new raid and with almost the same members?

    Anyways, either join / stay with your guild it's your choice. Because you know more about the situation than we do, and should be more informed to make decisions. But personally I would be wary about this tank guy if you decide to join. What does he really value in this game? Progression or friends?

    I wouldn't be surprised if this tank dumped your little group again if you geared him up and he will take the next level of offers from other higher-end guilds, essentially guild-hopping to get gear. I had a guy like that in our server, he guild-hopped like a madman collecting uber gear until his reputation caught up with him, then when he couldn't continue with his little adventure anymore, he just up and transferred to another server.

  8. #8
    It's not that the tank got an offer. That was clearly a lie as he MADE another guild with most of the current raiders, according to the OP. In this situation I would still want to raid with the new guild, but it would also really worry me to be raiding with someone KNOWN to be a cowardly liar.

    In fact, it's really clear what happened here. Whoever the remaining 3 people are, they clearly didn't like them. It's sad they didn't deal with it instead of running away, but I get why people would do that. Even the OP said he didn't know these remaining raiders well, even though we're talking about a 10-player raid, so I have a feeling that the people who left felt like those people weren't "one of them" and wanted to avoid them.
    Last edited by Senka; 2012-12-27 at 02:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Well because the leavers are in a new guild/raid team with most of the members and only a few missing, it's possible that some or several of them had a problem with the current raiding team/guild. Maybe there were problems with the GM or how the guild was being ran. Maybe it was because of the 5 day schedule. Maybe the few DPS that haven't left are part of the problem. Who knows unless you talk to a few of them.

    I've had this EXACT situation (except the person that left was KICKED and didn't quit) so that GM lost his whole raid team and we reformed a new guild based on our raid team. It almost sounds like you guys are doing something similar so far.

    Sounds like either way you have some work to do before you get back to progression raiding, so good luck with your decision.

    I can't tell you exactly what I would do in your situation myself, because I don't know exactly how your relationship with all the people and the remaining is. If you were pretty tight with the guys left, and only close to the GM I would move on with the new guys. If you were/are tight with all of them, then it's a real tough decision.

    Don't feel guilty about leaving a guild, what matters the most is the people. If so many people left, there is a reason. If people aren't happy with the way things are being ran or the decisions being made people WILL leave.

    Either way you look at it, you're likely going to be raiding with new people and will have to re-learn fights and gear up, whether you stay or go. Unless of course you had a second team or a shit load of bench raiders.

  10. #10
    They obviously had a reason. Force it out of them by telling them you will join when you hear why they are leaving just to form basically the same group, then join them if you are satisfied with the answer. A guild is hardly serious enough to get emotional over, so you might as well be direct.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Soopa View Post
    If people aren't happy with the way things are being ran or the decisions being made people WILL leave.
    That doesn't really sound like this happened...

    It seems like the tank that left didnt want to 'discuss' anything, but wanted to dictate... and didn't feel any real connection to his guildies to make him give a !@#$.

    If it had just been him and 1 or 2 others, that'd be a situation where "They liked raiding together, but not as part of this guild".

    Where invitations have been extended to pretty much the whole guild though, it feels like the issue wasnt in the raid team, but in the fact that one of the raiders wants the powertrip.

    Aside from the maintank's issues, it sounds like there's some social issues if the whole raid will so readily bail on your guild the moment one of its members decides to usurp the authority.

  12. #12
    Seems to me that the first one that left must have had:
    1. the balls to leave first
    2. perhaps an argument with the GM or didn't like his or the officers style.

    I have some questions:
    What kind of age catagory are we talking about? The guys who left, the age of the GM etc.
    Why is/was there just one officer who took care of things? I mean sure the GM is on some holiday or whatever doing X - great and all.... but we all have internet on our phone these days. I am sure if you are a serious guild you have a forum/website. So if I was GM I had atleast access to the website + numerous telephone numbers of my officers. I am sure my officers would have called me if an exodus of this magnitude would take place. I would post a statement or would use one of my officers to post a statement that I conveyed to him/her by phone from my holiday address.

    So if I am honest, this seems like this was more done against management - some people weren't happy with. I was a GM of a pretty good guild for 7 years. And this would be exactly what I would have done if this happend to me. But we were pretty organised

    I guess you need to talk to a few officers. In the end I would make a decision based on this:

    1. is the GM of the new guild a GM worth following?
    2. has the new guild any chance of succeeding for a long period of time?
    3. what will the new GM change compared to how it was in your current guild? Make no mistake, the GM dictates the atmosphere in the guild. So if this new guy changes everything that your old GM stood for, perhaps you would want to search for another guild or stick with your old one.
    4. has the new GM picked nice officers - or did he pick his closest friends?
    5. has the new GM layed out a plan on how he would run things? Who will do recruitment? Does he know how this works? Cause it is not "just do simply X and voila" - it requires real effort.
    6. does the new guild have a website already?
    7. do they know how to handle loot?
    8. do they run a TS/Skype/mumble/etc ?

    It could very well be that this newly found guild isn't at all what you require of a guild except for the people in them. Sure it is about people. Guilds cannot succeed without them. But if the foundation of rules and proper management isn't in place - you should stop right there.

    edit: also your current GM may have done a lot of work. But seriously, you existed since halfway Firelands (in a serious manner). This is not a long time at all in WoW terms. So loyalty isn't very high yet.

    And one red flag (for me) is that the new guy didn't tell the truth about anything. Not being upfront on what you believe = bad leadership. The moment he decided to make a new guild (probably before he left, don't fool yourself) thats the moment he became a leader. And from my pov, leaders need to be upfront about almost everything and have a plausible and logical explanation for pretty much everything.
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2012-12-27 at 03:04 PM.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    getting a coffee
    Posts
    4,429
    You do what makes you happy and what will continue to make you happy while you play the game.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week a man robs a gas station with a BOOMERANG? wtf

  14. #14
    Who do you like more? The ones who stayed, or the ones who left? Be with the people you enjoy more. That is my advice.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Who do you like more? The ones who stayed, or the ones who left? Be with the people you enjoy more. That is my advice.
    Well I agree, you want to be with people you like. But it is not all about the people that are in the guild. It is also about how the guild is being run. If the loot distribution isn't something you think is fair, you are going to run in the same issues sooner rather then later with this new guild. If you don't think the GM spends enough time recruiting or managing the guild (always offline except for raids) - then perhaps you wouldn't want to join either.

    It is not simply enough to just say: I will play where other people I like play...

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Taters91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    578
    Out of the 6 year's I've been playing WoW I've never seen a guild rebuild itself to be as good as it once was, your better off joining the other one.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Well I agree, you want to be with people you like. But it is not all about the people that are in the guild. It is also about how the guild is being run. If the loot distribution isn't something you think is fair, you are going to run in the same issues sooner rather then later with this new guild. If you don't think the GM spends enough time recruiting or managing the guild (always offline except for raids) - then perhaps you wouldn't want to join either.

    It is not simply enough to just say: I will play where other people I like play...
    Actually it is. You just make your guild work for you. If you do not agre with the loot rules, then work with your guild leadership for a solution. Either way, enjoying the people you raid with >>>>>>>> loot rules. If you rank loot rules higher than enjoying the people you play with, then I would seriously question your priorities.

  18. #18
    It sounds as though they all just went with their friends. It all went down over the holidays and with you and the GM out for extended periods, it made it easier without confrontation. People sometimes need a change. I know you are looking for answers, but they are just not men enough to come out and say it for fear of hurting your feelings or maybe to save their own embarassment. Things happen, and when they do, you just have to accept them and move on. If you want to raid with them, ask for an invite when they raid. If it is guild only, decide how important your current guild really is. It is all about personal choice. For me, personally, I am the type to just let them go and keep playing my game my way. I have few friends in this game, and it is actions like this that remind me why I am right to do so.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Taters91 View Post
    Out of the 6 year's I've been playing WoW I've never seen a guild rebuild itself to be as good as it once was, your better off joining the other one.
    Very true. My own guild was created out of another guild. It was in vanilla and we had like 70/80 members. But the thing was our guildmaster and 50% of the officers were of the opinion: "you pay the for the game - you can join our guild to raid - everyone has the right to raid" and at the same time the other 50%: "we want to raid 5 days a week 4 hours a day with pro players". So after I became officer in that guild me and another officer who had the same opinion said: Look if you want to raid properly we need to kick like 50% of the members or bump them to a casual rank. They won't raid with us ever. We will up the requirements for people to apply to us blablabla. The GM reluctantly did so - but in the end couldn't live up to this. Which is fine.

    So we left with about 12 people and built our own 25 man in TBC. It was hard work but we did say bluntly that we were leaving cause our goals in this game weren't the same anymore.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Actually it is. You just make your guild work for you. If you do not agre with the loot rules, then work with your guild leadership for a solution. Either way, enjoying the people you raid with >>>>>>>> loot rules. If you rank loot rules higher than enjoying the people you play with, then I would seriously question your priorities.
    No you just took one thing I said (ok I posted your quote with just saying this, but it is obvious you didn't read my post above ) It is a whole package which should be proper. If you don't like how the guild is being run you leave. And if you won't leave others who you like playing with might. = unstable guild.

  20. #20
    I've been in your situation recently, and feel the way it was handled was completely wrong instead of addressing the issue, though yours may be different.

    Quick explanation of my issue: Guild raids 25ms, leadership exploits dkp loot system and tenders to casuals who used to be full time raiders in the past who were worse players when working towards server first. top 10 players in guild during thanksgiving when we didn't raid, decided to pull a couple 6+ hour raid days (myself included), to push for server first. Killed 4 progression heroic bosses, and was working on Will heroic. Took a break for thanksgiving, and one of the 25m leadership, tells other guild we were going against for server first, that we were pushin for it. Other guild pulls all nighter and snags server first.

    Just small tidbit of what happened. We broke off to form a 10m, leadership becomes sketchy, and starts leading people on. Half the group xfers to a better server, then leadership leaves to join another guild.

    Now, after explaining our situation, who turned out to be the actual problem? The new leadership of the new guild.

    TLDR: The problems with your guild before were most likely problems created by the guy who left, not the people who stayed. Find out what truly happened and don't let them lead you on.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •