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  1. #1

    Seal of Truth or Seal of Insight? Was so sure until now.

    From mostly everything that I've researched and everything I've been told Seal of Insight should be used while tanking at all times. I've recently joined a new guild and went on my first raid, as well as my first time, in MV 10M. I did well aside from cleaning some things up but I was approached (very respectfully) by a member of the raid group (plays Hunter/Priest). They said that I should be using Seal of Truth when single target tanking at all times due to increased DPS as well as increased threat, and was adamant that I wouldn't be able to hold aggro with their hard hitting dps. I explained my case but they said healing from insight was negligible (I was 9.4% healing on overall data.) I don't feel my threat is a problem at all, not with that group and not with harder hitting DPS. I am glyphed with Glyph of the Battle Healer as well.

    Is he right? Should I maybe start out with Seal of Truth then switch to Seal of Insight once I've established threat? Or stay with Seal of Insight? Everything I was sure of is now gone due to that comment and I just want to make sure that I am playing my role correctly.

    Chat Log
    Chat Log continued

    Talents:
    Speed of Light
    Fist of Justice
    Sacred Shield
    Unbreakable Spirit
    Holy Avenger
    Light's Hammer

    Glyphs:
    Glyph of Divine Protection
    Glyph of the Battle Healer
    Glyph of the Alabaster Sheild

    *Adding in the message in it's entirety. For those that were curious.
    Last edited by Sombix; 2012-12-27 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Added chat.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire mjolnir1122's Avatar
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    While leveling in prot, I always had seal of insight on.

    However, in instances, seal of truth is what you should be using. If you took eternal flame, it works wonders, and pretty much eliminates the need to have seal of insight on, as with 5 holy charges, you can double heal yourself for quite a nice chunk of health. Plus, as a tank, even if you do have more than enough aggro, your main focus should be the encounter. Don't worry about helping out the healers.

    If you were ret, it would be a very different story, and even though you should still be using seal of truth, having a DPS healer is always helpful, so seal of insight in ret would be alot more understandable

  3. #3
    As per Ghostcrawler's tweet/post/whatever he used when he said it, Protadins are supposed to be using SoI.

    EDIT: Correction.. it was Daxxari in a giant blue post.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794029542
    Last edited by Zankoku; 2012-12-27 at 06:16 AM. Reason: Source

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mjolnir1122 View Post
    While leveling in prot, I always had seal of insight on.

    However, in instances, seal of truth is what you should be using. If you took eternal flame, it works wonders, and pretty much eliminates the need to have seal of insight on, as with 5 holy charges, you can double heal yourself for quite a nice chunk of health. Plus, as a tank, even if you do have more than enough aggro, your main focus should be the encounter. Don't worry about helping out the healers.

    If you were ret, it would be a very different story, and even though you should still be using seal of truth, having a DPS healer is always helpful, so seal of insight in ret would be alot more understandable
    This is wrong, the damage from truth is completely negligible and insight now pumps out significant heals. The answer to the tanking seal is insight. Always insight.

    Edit: Also, you should be taking Sacred Shield as a tank.

  5. #5
    Blademaster Judist's Avatar
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    I don't have any threat problems using SoI on a pull. If I remember correctly, Glyph of Battle healer still give you some threat from healing other players. If that is the case, you aren't losing much threat from our 80% nerfed DoT. Recently there was a nerf to the way HotR and SoI healed you from its AoE component, but they tried to compensate with a buff to the SoI proc rate.

    sacredduty.net is a good blog from a great tankadin, you should check it out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 12:18 AM ----------

    I don't agree with your choice of Eternal Flame. Sacred Shield scales with vengeance and doesn't have a cost. Absorbing damage is generally better than healing damage.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mjolnir1122 View Post
    While leveling in prot, I always had seal of insight on.

    However, in instances, seal of truth is what you should be using. If you took eternal flame, it works wonders, and pretty much eliminates the need to have seal of insight on, as with 5 holy charges, you can double heal yourself for quite a nice chunk of health. Plus, as a tank, even if you do have more than enough aggro, your main focus should be the encounter. Don't worry about helping out the healers.

    If you were ret, it would be a very different story, and even though you should still be using seal of truth, having a DPS healer is always helpful, so seal of insight in ret would be alot more understandable
    This was true in cata but I believe that SoI is the preferred seal now. I'll go check on it though but I remember ghostcrawler even saying so.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mmines View Post
    This was true in cata but I believe that SoI is the preferred seal now. I'll go check on it though but I remember ghostcrawler even saying so.
    Daxxari, and yes.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794029542

  8. #8
    Insight is the way to go! They are old school like me.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankoku View Post
    Ya so try to talk to them and show them that and possibly a well regarded prot paladin guide who ever that may be. Did you point out how much healing it provided versus how much damage seal of truth brought?

  10. #10
    Seal of truth deals 80% less damage as prot. Insight is the seal you want, whoever is telling you to use truth is going on out of date information.

  11. #11
    I don't understand how can you only be doing 9.4% on overall healing...as prot using SoI I beat the other tank every fight, a dk, and some fights come close to the healers themselves. Remember moar damage = moar healing as prot. Push dem buttons harder.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombix View Post
    Is he right? Should I maybe start out with Seal of Truth then switch to Seal of Insight once I've established threat? Or stay with Seal of Insight? Everything I was sure of is now gone due to that comment and I just want to make sure that I am playing my role correctly.
    You should be using Insight as it helps increase your Word of Glory healing by 5% as well as the self healing it provides. It may or may not increase your Sacred Shield (which you should be using as it's better than Flash of Light every 3 judges / Eternal Flame on 5 HP since most use ShoR for the damage reduction).

    Seal of Truth's damage is low and won't help you with threat if that is the issue. Only time you should consider it is if you are hitting 1% enrage wipes, but even then it won't be enough to make a difference.

    Also using the glyph will help provide a little bit of healing to your raid members thus potentially helping save some healers mana.

  13. #13
    The healing from Insight generates threat anyway - I would guess more threat than Truth, in fact, although I've never bothered to compare the numbers on that because tank threat is a complete non-issue.

    Tank DPS is not an unimportant thing, but tank survival is an even more important thing, and Insight provides far more survival than Truth provides DPS. And frankly, if this guy does end up having issues with aggro, you and/or he is doing something very wrong, and swapping to Truth won't help.

  14. #14
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Tbh make your life easy and always always stick with SoI. Prot does not have a dps seal - the "extra" damage from the other seals are pitiful and will make a close-to-nil difference in your raid/party/solo dps. insight is always the way to go.
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  15. #15
    Threat hasn't been an issue since they made it a non-issue. This is obvious to any real raider. I only wish I knew what that guy was talking about. Maybe he doesn't know that Seal of Insight gives +10% spell haste and +5% healing now?

  16. #16
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Do they know that all your actions generate additional threat do the Righteous Fury? That includes heals created by Battle Healer Glyph, and seeing how much vengeance you can get on some encounters those heals will be huge which will generate much more threat than the small damage increase of SoT.

  17. #17
    Oh, I also wanted to add something else. Because that guy did politely approach you about this, do the same and explain why Seal of Insight is useful (+spell haste, healing, battle healer). Then show him this post and point out that Seal of Truth is almost pointless for Protection. Personally I would add that threat isn't any issue at all, but you probably shouldn't just in case it'd make him defensive.

    This should show that you know what you're doing and know what you're talking about.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjolnir1122 View Post
    However, in instances, seal of truth is what you should be using.
    Just for the record, the tooltip for Seal of Truth as prot is not accurate and doesn't reflect the nerf, it will be updated in 5.2. Came as a (quite unpleasant) shock for my guild's tank when I told him.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire mjolnir1122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Just for the record, the tooltip for Seal of Truth as prot is not accurate and doesn't reflect the nerf, it will be updated in 5.2. Came as a (quite unpleasant) shock for my guild's tank when I told him.
    Well I appreciate that, as well as the above posters who corrected me. Personally, I have seen a significant damage increase in SoT as opposed to SoI, and absolutely no difference in threat (I'm reforged more towards control than avoidance). However, I'm going to test this out a bit and see the difference for myself

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Any prot paladin using seal of truth is either ignorant of how good SoI/bad SoT is, or an idiot. It does no damage, and you give up tons of healing to use it. It is an incredibly bad seal for prot; personally I think it's irresponsible to make it available to the spec at all, since it gives the impression that it's something reasonable to use and it's kind of hard to tell exactly how terrible it is if you're not examining your combat log.

    Many times have I encountered prot paladins running SoT in instances, with their censure doing less damage overall over the instance than my disc priest's touch of the grave.

    It should never be used, except in bizzare circumstances where, say, healing doesn't work, or where the dot is esesntial for whatever reason.
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