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  1. #1641
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    I'm sorry but what you just said doesn't make any sense.

    The guy wants to have sex with her, so, he makes a deal that she can't deny, he's not forcing her physically, but mentally, if that makes any sense.

    And that's coercing someone in my opinion. It's subtle, but still coercion.
    She can deny it, is what you are either avoiding, not understanding, or exaggerating on purpose. Apparently she didn't like having sex with him, but would for a certain amount of money, and that amount is 60% of her rent.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 02:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by majad View Post
    yes she could, but the offer was too good to decline it.
    what? What? The offer was too good? So if someone offered me 1million dollars for sex, they are essentially raping me because i wouldnt like it?
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  2. #1642
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    She can deny it, is what you are either avoiding, not understanding, or exaggerating on purpose. Apparently she didn't like having sex with him, but would for a certain amount of money, and that amount is 60% of her rent.
    Like I've said before, offer was too good to decline.

    I don't know how much I can say, but that's it, I was just giving my thoughts on the matter, I wasn't expecting to change anyone's mind.

  3. #1643
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    The wiki definition of rape includes coercion. But this does not matter. Here, I will fix it, she chose to have sex for money. She was not coerced sexually, or raped.
    This right here, change 60% rent, for an (allotted price) of a weekly customer for sex. Change 60% to 100 dollars, and we have a prostitute. From the information given, there was no, "otherwise" I'm going to kick you out, statement made.

    I'm not saying it didn't happen. Just "WITH THE INFORMATION GIVEN", this has not happened. It's basically a weekly payment for sex. To say otherwise, is blatantly making assumptions.

  4. #1644
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    Yes she could, but the offer was too good to decline it.
    Who says the offer is too good?
    Herself.Thus she's responsible for what she choses.

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    Like I've said before, offer was too good to decline.

    I don't know how much I can say, but that's it, I was just giving my thoughts on the matter, I wasn't expecting to change anyone's mind.
    This is to say, she is too stupid or easily swayed by money, that there is no possible way she could decline the deal?
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  6. #1646
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Who says the offer is too good?
    Herself.Thus she's responsible for what she choses.
    But isn't a 60% "discount" on anything a good offer?

    I think it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    This is to say, she is too stupid or easily swayed by money, that there is no possible way she could decline the deal?
    She's 18.

    I'm pretty sure 18s are easily influenced or more easily coerced than most people that are above their 20s and so on.

    Even so, assuming she doesn't have much money and this was the only option, coercion it is, for me.

  7. #1647
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    Holy shit, do you guys realise this topic has exploded into an argument that is literally going in circles? Someone argues it's immoral and illegal, then someone goes it's only immoral!, not illegal, then someone goes it's not either, then back to immoral and illegal.

    geez. Just recognise everyone has very different opinions on morality, and regarding legalities, the OP's brother is in the clear. (Though for those of you thinking that she has other options, it's not black and white easy. Not everyone realises the full amount of options available to them until they're told, reality can be a real bitch sometimes.)

    Edit: She's also just gone through a crisis, and at 18, has to take care of an 11 year old. A kid is an extreme handful. She's not in the clearest state of mind atm, I wonder how many of you saying that she can easily choose another option could actually think that clearly given the circumstances.
    Last edited by Mavecryst; 2012-12-28 at 07:42 AM.

  8. #1648
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    But isn't a 60% "discount" on anything a good offer?

    I think it is.

    She's 18.

    I'm pretty sure 18s are easily influenced or more easily coerced than most people that are above their 20s and so on.
    That is ludicrous. So he is a rapist or a sexual coercionist because she is so susceptible to money and suggestions?
    Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2012-12-28 at 07:41 AM.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  9. #1649
    I think the story was pretty erotic and I doubt it's true. And if it was true it would not be against the law (at least in my country where I studied the law) because he didn't threaten to kick her out he only made an offer. Also to all these people acting like they know how the girl feels: You don't even know her! She may well be masturbating to this.
    Don't assume women are all cute and innocent. Most are pretty tough and have "dark sides", too. To really judge the situation you'd need much more valid information.

  10. #1650
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    But isn't a 60% "discount" on anything a good offer?

    I think it is.

    She's 18.

    I'm pretty sure 18s are easily influenced or more easily coerced than most people that are above their 20s and so on.

    Even so, assuming she doesn't have much money and this was the only option, coercion it is, for me.
    Think of this scenario,she goes to a club and meets a guy.They have a friendly conversation and she tells the guy about her situation.
    The guy proceeds to offer money for sex.Is the guy raping her?

  11. #1651
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    I'm sorry but what you just said doesn't make any sense.

    The guy wants to have sex with her, so, he makes a deal that she can't deny, he's not forcing her physically, but mentally, if that makes any sense.

    And that's coercing someone in my opinion. It's subtle, but still coercion.
    See you are acting like this is a forced option. This woman isn't a victim, quit making her out to be one.

    IF, I walk up to a a girl co-worker knowing she need 5k to get her car fixed, and say: So I will pay 60% of your rent, for so many months, if you let me fuck you in the ass while my wife eats you out. That is coercion? That is an offer for prostitution.

    She made a trade agreement with buyers remorse. End of story.

  12. #1652
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    This right here, change 60% rent, for an (allotted price) of a weekly customer for sex. Change 60% to 100 dollars, and we have a prostitute. From the information given, there was no, "otherwise" I'm going to kick you out, statement made.

    I'm not saying it didn't happen. Just "WITH THE INFORMATION GIVEN", this has not happened. It's basically a weekly payment for sex. To say otherwise, is blatantly making assumptions.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Since rape is the synonym of sexual coercion he countered both definitions?Why would he see the need to specifically use ''sexual coercion'',if no rape happened,no sexual coercion happened,is there any need to complicate things?
    The laws act differently than our morals, thanfully. If the man offered her ANY benefit she would otherwise not get from having sex with him, then he is at fault and is liable for any damages, emotional and financial, she suffered. If they then had sex and he lowered her rent, then it is sexual coercion, a form of rape. Understand that if her rent was the same before sex and lower after, and she did not want sex before the offer was made, then she was pressured to enter a situation she would otherwise avoid. If she did not want to have sex and did anyway because of his offer than it is coercion.

    On the other hand: If the idea were hers. Then she is liable. It would more than likely fall under prostitiution laws from that point.

    I see both of your points, but the laws have been interpreted to act differently than either of you are willing to acknowledge. The truth is there is not enough information in the original post for us to draw an accurate conclusion. Simply too much is left in interpretation and assumption. This is why there are so many IF's in this post. The OP simply wasn't clear enough on all the details.
    Quite often, the difference between an idiot and a genius is simply a matter of success rate.

  13. #1653
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    Sorry... but your brother is a cunt.
    Who even does that? If his financial situation is good, just give it to her for free.

  14. #1654
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    That is ludicrous. So he is a rapist or a sexual coercionist because she is so susceptible to money and suggestions?
    I'd say a sexual coercionist(?)?

    I honestly don't see the rape here tbh............................................
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Think of this scenario,she goes to a club and meets a guy.They have a friendly conversation and she tells the guy about her situation.
    The guy proceeds to offer money for sex.Is the guy raping her?
    No, he isn't raping her if they have sex.

    I never once said that this was rape, just coercion.

  15. #1655
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    Since this is moving so friggin fast, let me get this out once again "Holy shit, do you guys realise this topic has exploded into an argument that is literally going in circles? Someone argues it's immoral and illegal, then someone goes it's only immoral!, not illegal, then someone goes it's not either, then back to immoral and illegal.".

    W...T....F. Seriously just check the last, oh, 5 pages, and you have exactly what happened in the last 70.

  16. #1656
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    See you are acting like this is a forced option. This woman isn't a victim, quit making her out to be one.

    IF, I walk up to a a girl co-worker knowing she need 5k to get her car fixed, and say: So I will pay 60% of your rent, for so many months, if you let me fuck you in the ass while my wife eats you out. That is coercion? That is an offer for prostitution.

    She made a trade agreement with buyers remorse. End of story.
    Yes, that's what I'm making out of this. I'm not making her a victim, the guy just took advantage, but I don't think that makes her a victim?

    I don't know but I guess it depends on the situation and how the person, that is being supposedly coerced, reacts and feels about everything, really, it depends.

  17. #1657
    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    I'd say a sexual coercionist(?)?

    I honestly don't see the rape here tbh............................................

    No, he isn't raping her if they have sex.

    I never once said that this was rape, just coercion.
    Sexual coercion is a form of rape. I don't know the word either. Just because he made a good offer, does not mean he coerced her. She could have found another pklace to live, or could have paid the original amount of rent. The Op did not state any type of threat made, or any type of negative consequence if she had said no.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  18. #1658
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    That is ludicrous. So he is a rapist or a sexual coercionist because she is so susceptible to money and suggestions?
    By that crazy logic the girl doesn't have any control over what she does is a danger to herself,her brother,and everyone else.
    Cause you never know if someone proposes to pay 5000$ if she rob,harm,kills someone.Or hell 10 000$ to sell her own brother off.
    How susceptible is she really?Nobody knows.
    By this logic anyone who's young and poor should be hunted down and put away somewhere.

  19. #1659
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Since rape is the synonym of sexual coercion he countered both definitions?Why would he see the need to specifically use ''sexual coercion'',if no rape happened,no sexual coercion happened,is there any need to complicate things?
    sexual coercion is not a synonym of rape. sexual coercion is a method of rape. if sexual coercion occurred, and it led to penetrative sexual activity, that is rape.
    "Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't mean the person actually said it." - Thomas Jefferson

  20. #1660
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgemesh View Post
    The laws act differently than our morals, thanfully. If the man offered her ANY benefit she would otherwise not get from having sex with him, then he is at fault and is liable for any damages, emotional and financial, she suffered. If they then had sex and he lowered her rent, then it is sexual coercion, a form of rape. Understand that if her rent was the same before sex and lower after, and she did not want sex before the offer was made, then she was pressured to enter a situation she would otherwise avoid. If she did not want to have sex and did anyway because of his offer than it is coercion.

    On the other hand: If the idea were hers. Then she is liable. It would more than likely fall under prostitiution laws from that point.

    I see both of your points, but the laws have been interpreted to act differently than either of you are willing to acknowledge. The truth is there is not enough information in the original post for us to draw an accurate conclusion. Simply too much is left in interpretation and assumption. This is why there are so many IF's in this post. The OP simply wasn't clear enough on all the details.
    I don't see how you can possibly think what you just type out if logical. Since she had two other options that didn't include sex, she was not coerced, or force to do anything. The landlord did not threaten her, or force any type of negative consequence if she said no.

    If anything, they are both guilty of prostitution, and he is guilty of soliciting sex from his tenants.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

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