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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Naah not really. 40vp and they take as long as a normal 5man HC.
    If you're a dps without a healer/tank to queue with, it's much faster to do a few scenarios than a couple of dungeons.

    You can get into and complete most scenarios in about the same time it takes to just get into a dungeon if you're a dps solo queue-ing.

  2. #562
    their catch up mechanism is now lfr. Fantastic. Remember when that group of 5 in your dungeon gave you a headache because one or two of them were retarded. Remember that. Multiply it by 5.

  3. #563
    Just gonna ask this:

    What do you people rather want? One brand new 5-man dungeon, or 2 new scenario's?

  4. #564
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Just gonna ask this:

    What do you people rather want? One brand new 5-man dungeon, or 2 new scenario's?
    one new 5-man dungeon.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    In past expansions we had those dungeons because it was near impossible to find groups for older raids. Now with LFR it'll be much easier.
    I agree it will be easier, but the question is does it completely remove the need for dungeons in patches? I don't believe so. It would be just as bad as the current daily quests situation. LFR (for old tiers) would be tiresome; and you may have much longer queue times trying to get into an old raid. You know that once 5.2 hits, 5.1 LFR will drop dramatically; and once 5.3 hits you'll be hard to find people queueing for 5.1. At this point an alternative method of obtaining gear will be necessary. Dungeons would make most sense since they're a lot quicker and casual friendly.

  6. #566
    Dreadlord Korrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    FOR fucking REAL.

    It's really getting tired, that whole drama where they loose nomatter what.
    It's like team Rocket.
    Doesn't matter whatever picture I post here, "Scrapbot" will allways infract me for it.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Copperbolt View Post
    It's like team Rocket.
    They're blasting of agaaaaaaaaaain?
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just a few points:

    1. It's OK to define 'current content' as everything in the current expansion. Some may disagree. That doesn't make them correct. It's really up to the individual player.

    2. We don't know if players will or will not accept this method or progression. There's a lot of evidence to suggest they will. Of course, some won't and will complain about it forever and ever. That being the case, BC progression or something like it has a lot of vocal fans.

    3. We don't know if this is putting players in a position where they can never catch up. LFR is one way. There might be others through JP, crafted gear, etc. Again, and this is speculation, I don't expect the mistakes of BC progression to be repeated. Access to LFR makes a difference. How much remains to be seen.

    4. We don't know enough yet to proclaim gloom and doom for the rest of the expansion.
    1. The definition for the past 4 years has been the current raid tier and the ilvl that went with the newest dungeons depending on your content. In Everquest and here, every player I've encountered considered "current" content the most recent group content released. How many players were raiding 4.1 when Firelands came out and happily considering themselves "current"? Firelands after DS came out? Current hasn't been current expac since maybe BC progression raiding. Even in Everquest where true progression is the standard, every guild I encountered that wasn't in the most recent raiding content considered themselves behind and IMO it didn't do the game any favors.

    2. It's my opinion that they won't. People who advocate progression raiding in the BC style are more than likely players who would actually "progress" regardless and the numbers of those players is a small percentage of the playerbase.

    3. They've made it fairly clear that LFR is their intended catch-up mechanism. From what I've read they don't seem to intend to drop valor gear to be justice buyable and have made no mention of any other means of gearing up. Maybe they have some secret plan, but my interpretation is they intend people to start at square one and use LFR to catch up. I admit I could be wrong, but I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.

    4. True. But as far as I'm concerned if they don't put in a catch- up besides LFR then it's a disaster waiting to happen in terms of subscription losses.

    People will put up with a lot but this is a major design change that really wasn't advertised and changing a successful product from what it's been for 3-4 year is risky business.

  9. #569
    Brewmaster orangelemonrain's Avatar
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    They want people to gear up via LFR to catch up now. They have said it multiple times too. Scenario's have nothing to do with it.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by orangelemonrain View Post
    They want people to gear up via LFR to catch up now. They have said it multiple times too. Scenario's have nothing to do with it.
    Pretty shit system then, if you can only run it once a week for several weeks and still get a sweet fuck all.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  11. #571
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    I agree it will be easier, but the question is does it completely remove the need for dungeons in patches? I don't believe so. It would be just as bad as the current daily quests situation. LFR (for old tiers) would be tiresome; and you may have much longer queue times trying to get into an old raid. You know that once 5.2 hits, 5.1 LFR will drop dramatically; and once 5.3 hits you'll be hard to find people queueing for 5.1. At this point an alternative method of obtaining gear will be necessary. Dungeons would make most sense since they're a lot quicker and casual friendly.
    And yet they've decided to not add new dungeons in 5.2

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    Pretty shit system then, if you can only run it once a week for several weeks and still get a sweet fuck all.
    This is specifically my problem with it as well. If they want it to compare to the Burning Crusade model then come 5.2 MSV needs at least a 35% drop rate and HoF/ToES needs at least 25%. Otherwise there are going to be people that grind everything as hard as they can and still end up buying off-spec valor gear just to reach the ilvl needed to run the next LFR assuming it's at least 480. They realized this already by making that valor gear available so people didn't have to have the best of luck to get into HoF/ToES by gearing up only in MSV.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.
    P̶l̶a̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶W̶o̶D̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶d̶d̶e̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶f̶u̶l̶ ̶W̶a̶r̶g̶l̶a̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶A̶z̶z̶i̶n̶o̶t̶h̶.̶
    RIP Sweet Prince...

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    And yet they've decided to not add new dungeons in 5.2
    Because the barrier of entry of LFR 5.2 is low enough for fresh 90's to catch up without needing new dungeons. Won't be the case with later raids.

    Example.

    Ulduar came out in 3.1, a giant raid with 12 bosses. No dungeon added. The barrier of entry for Ulduar was relatively low still, especially fresh out of Naxx. Even if you skipped Naxx, you could go into Ulduar with dungeon heroics gear and do decently (in fact, a guild did Ulduar in full blues while it was still relevant to prove the 'skill > gear' point).

    3.2 added a new dungeon which dropped Ulduar 10-man equivalent gear. This was to even up the barrier of entry for new lvl 80's to get into Trials of the Crusader. Trials of the Champion (dungeon) still had an ilvl requirement though, so you needed to run the regular heroics too. This dungeon was added to bridge new players coming back to WoW to raid relevant content.

    LFR is not a bridge for content. LFR is a raid mode that parallels normal/heroic raids with a lower entry level for casual players. As the tiers get raised, the ilvl requirements for LFR will go up, and fresh 90's will have little way of getting gear to catch up and get into new raids (or LFR). That's what new dungeons are there for. People will not be expected to run old raids from 2-3 patches ago to catch up to current content.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2012-12-29 at 01:45 AM.

  14. #574
    Pandaren Monk 1ns's Avatar
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    lol no more content until may? i sense a huge decrease of players alá cataclysM

  15. #575
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    They promised faster content patchs. Seems faster content patch = less content

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 05:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by NSrm View Post
    lol no more content until may? i sense a huge decrease of players alá cataclysM
    Mop feels like Cata 2.0

    that's just my option tho

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    poor Blizzard, can't win in any way.
    Seriously. Every hour it's another "Can't fulfill my arbitrary expectations, really Blizzard?" thread.

  17. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Just gonna ask this:

    What do you people rather want? One brand new 5-man dungeon, or 2 new scenario's?
    Neither. The time and effort should be put into making the raids better, prettier and overall granting a more rewarding experience.
    Casuals get to experience the time and effort put into the raids anyway, through LFR, so a new LFR should be plenty of new content for whomever would like to punch random monks and shas in a random new setting known as a dungeon.

    And very few people cleared the heroic raids and PVP is more underplayed than ever, imo. There is no real need to push a new season or a new raid as of yet, in fact I think doing so would overwhelm alot of people.

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
    And very few people cleared the heroic raids and PVP is more underplayed than ever, imo. There is no real need to push a new season or a new raid as of yet, in fact I think doing so would overwhelm alot of people.
    Very much agree. I would like more time to work on this tier. I'm in a guild that full cleared DS and firelands in the months that Cata was drawing to a close, and while I don't necessarily expect to complete Sha of Fear on heroic, it would be nice to at least have time to work on SOME heroics...

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    They promised faster content patchs. Seems faster content patch = less content

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 05:55 PM ----------



    Mop feels like Cata 2.0

    that's just my option tho
    Have you even cleared all the normal modes?

  20. #580
    I dont buy the argument that they are putting all their effort towards 1 raid, so there isnt time to make dungeons.

    blizzard makes a LOT of fucking money, off subs and other things. I dont see how it can be that hard to hire a few people to create some dungeons.

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