No new dungeons, really Blizzard?

[Magpai]

poor Blizzard, can't win in any way.

Seriously. Every hour it's another "Can't fulfill my arbitrary expectations, really Blizzard?" thread.

[Deleted]

Just gonna ask this:

What do you people rather want? One brand new 5-man dungeon, or 2 new scenario's?

Neither. The time and effort should be put into making the raids better, prettier and overall granting a more rewarding experience.
Casuals get to experience the time and effort put into the raids anyway, through LFR, so a new LFR should be plenty of new content for whomever would like to punch random monks and shas in a random new setting known as a dungeon.

And very few people cleared the heroic raids and PVP is more underplayed than ever, imo. There is no real need to push a new season or a new raid as of yet, in fact I think doing so would overwhelm alot of people.

[Magpai]

And very few people cleared the heroic raids and PVP is more underplayed than ever, imo. There is no real need to push a new season or a new raid as of yet, in fact I think doing so would overwhelm alot of people.

Very much agree. I would like more time to work on this tier. I'm in a guild that full cleared DS and firelands in the months that Cata was drawing to a close, and while I don't necessarily expect to complete Sha of Fear on heroic, it would be nice to at least have time to work on SOME heroics...

[SherbertLand]

They promised faster content patchs. Seems faster content patch = less content

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 05:55 PM ----------



Mop feels like Cata 2.0

that's just my option tho

Have you even cleared all the normal modes?

[Moradim]

I dont buy the argument that they are putting all their effort towards 1 raid, so there isnt time to make dungeons.

blizzard makes a LOT of fucking money, off subs and other things. I dont see how it can be that hard to hire a few people to create some dungeons.

[Arbs]

Another perfect example of how Blizzard can't do anything right according to the complaining crybabies in the community...

Thank You Gnowo totally agree, No matter what Blizzard does the whiners will still complain.

[But I Hate You All]

Have you even cleared all the normal modes?

And this has what to do with my statements?

"Mop feels like Cata 2.0 that's just my option tho" This statement has nothing to do with personal raid progression

Second statement was

"They promised faster content patchs. Seems faster content patch = less content" Once again This statement has nothing to do with personal raid progression


Go try to straw man someone else

[Deleted]

I dont see how it can be that hard to hire a few people to create some dungeons.

Probably because you are not Blizzard.

[PrairieChicken]

I would personally like TBC model, but it's honestly bad idea for majority of players (The non-raiders).

The player base has changed - If you tell people to run Kara/Mag/Grull for 2 years unlike the past they would quit

[Leonard McCoy]

Thank You Gnowo totally agree, No matter what Blizzard does the whiners will still complain.

why anyone thinks this is a valid defence I'm not sure. It's neither pro or contra dungeons. It's pro Blizzard and an easy way for you people to dismiss valid criticism. Blizzard is the luckiest company on the face of the planet. Their supporters are fanatic.

[Destruktion]

I would personally like TBC model, but it's honestly bad idea for majority of players (The non-raiders).

The player base has changed - If you tell people to run Kara/Mag/Grull for 2 years unlike the past they would quit

On an individual scale, this was not the case. You'd have to be extravagantly unlucky or woefully unambitious to find yourself running only T4 content a year after you started raiding. Or maybe the stubborn guild leader of a failing stepping stone guild.

[Moradim]

heres my criticism.

1) they rehashed TWO dungeons for the MoP launch. that's already less time invested in original content.

2) they still arent making new dungeons.

now, how have we gone from something like burning crusade, with many original dungeons, to MoP that had all of I think 4 dungeons to do while levelling? it got incredibly repetitive.

so here is your 5.2 content: 1 massive raid, and more dailies. after people finish their raiding for the week, what reason is there to log on? and how are people supposed to catch up? LFR? my lock alt has been doing lfr for nearly a month and has a cloak/neck to show for it. and a lot of bags of gold.

LFR absolutely should not be the catch up method. and with a 1000 valor cap, valor isnt a quick method either.

[Zoldor]

Who the fuck wants a new dungeon. They are just micro LFRs, why not run the LFR get the better gear and be done with it. See the story progression and get the better gear without doing some 5 boss dungeon in AoE mode just to get mid level gear. Most people will be ilevel 480 to 490 once 5.2 gets here, that is just from LFR based on the ability to upgrade all epics twice to +8 item levels. The new LFR will require 480 or 490 and then the cycle begins again. Thanks to upgrade and LFR the 5 man has an even smaller niche now. They had to invent time trials to get people to keep doing them. Its the BC gear progression ladder with LFR and Upgrades to speed up the process and make gearing alts easier.

BC:
5mans -> H5mans ->Kara/Gruul -> 25man raiding
This was until sunwell when 1 5man was added and Points/badge vendors(the way they thought of bridging the gap; new 5man and point(badge at the time vendor)

Wrath
5mans -> H5mans/point gear -> Raid -> New 5mans/point gear -> Raid; Repeat until finished. This was the model used, I believe between Naxx/OS/Eye and Ulduar there were no new five mans, BUT there was new point vendor gear. Can't remember

Cata
H5mans/points -> Raid -> New 5mans-> New 5mans/Points/Raid -> New 5mans/Points/LFR/Raid - This model has a ton of overlap especially at the end so they have condensed it. To a mesh between the Wrath Cata line and the BC/Vanilla line to condense the work or at least possibly spread it out. We can't know for sure because we haven't seen the entire MoP Time line.

MoP
5mans->H5mans->LFR/points-> Raid/upgrades -> new LFR->Raid/upgrades - This model builds and allows catch up through the LFR and Upgrades to the items obtainable through Valor. Those upgrades should get you close to the new LFR level. By the end of the expansion you will probably be able to run LFR only to get your Valor cap to increase the gear up speed. We could easily see a set of new 5 mans in the 5.3 patch to help bridge the gap. It doles out a lot of content at a lot of levels and ways to upgrade gear. 5mans aren't actually needed that much in this model, beyond just content and storytelling purposes after their initial run. I would think we'll see a rehash and maybe 1 new 5 man before this expansion ends. Lots more scenarios though for sure. I feel like they are letting the gear nuts go LFR and using scenarios as a replacement to 5mans for the crowd that likes small groups and challenge mode for the people who love 5mans. Its definitely a switch but the pattern of past expansions has foretold the death of the 5man for a long time.

Also, 5.2 is a lot more than a raid and daily quest hub. New pvp season, tons of stuff for the farm, and I wouldn't be surprised if we got some new scenarios. 5mans are not really the time filler people are trying to make them out to be.
I didn't mess with a vanilla line because most of you don't remember and it wasn't some kick ass model...basically the BC model with no point gear, 10(short lived)/20/40 man raids, quest epics all kinds of shit.

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 05:29 AM ----------

On an individual scale, this was not the case. You'd have to be extravagantly unlucky or woefully unambitious to find yourself running only T4 content a year after you started raiding. Or maybe the stubborn guild leader of a failing stepping stone guild.

Or a low population server, where you had 5 or 6 possible raiding guilds beyond T4.

[Deleted]

tbh I feel like 5 mans dont offer the same value for the development effort they require.

yes you will probably see them again with all your alts. But the replayability is much lower and if the dungeon has to be designed from the ground up I just dont see how it's worth it. I'd rather get 1 extra raid instead of a whole bunch of 5-mans.

I am all in favor of recycling old dungeons though. I want to see Maraudon and dire maul remade next :-)

[announced]

it is really stupid that theres no new dungeons.. the current ones are getting really stale. even 1 or 2 new ones would be quite decent.. they dont even need any thought into them just some 494 or so ilvl loot... maybe 500 since the new raids are 515 i guess.

[Korrah]

Where does people get this "may" nonsece from?
Source on it please.

As 5.2 coming to PTR in the coming 2 weeks i dont really see how it's suposed to be on the PTR for 5 months?!
I think 5.2 will be out in february.

[Count Zero]

I dont buy the argument that they are putting all their effort towards 1 raid, so there isnt time to make dungeons.

blizzard makes a LOT of fucking money, off subs and other things. I dont see how it can be that hard to hire a few people to create some dungeons.

You can't just throw money around and poof suddenly have quality employees who you know will produce solid work. What happens if they invest a ton of money into some new programmers who come back with stuff Blizz doesn't like ? Then they've wasted time and money they can't get back.

Pretty shit system then, if you can only run it once a week for several weeks and still get a sweet fuck all.

rng is rng ... same could happen with 5-players, or with normal/heroic raids.

In any event, I imagine they are hoping more LFR-only players start trying their hand at normal modes. I think this will be better for the game / community overall, than to toss in some 5-players immediately that invalidate any need to work on t14. Those will come with 5.3, which extends the life of t14 -- addressing a major, consistent complaint by the playerbase.

[Deleted]

I hope they add a new dungeons with 5.3 or 5.4 patch.

[Deleted]

Because the barrier of entry of LFR 5.2 is low enough for fresh 90's to catch up without needing new dungeons. Won't be the case with later raids.

Example.

Ulduar came out in 3.1, a giant raid with 12 bosses. No dungeon added. The barrier of entry for Ulduar was relatively low still, especially fresh out of Naxx. Even if you skipped Naxx, you could go into Ulduar with dungeon heroics gear and do decently (in fact, a guild did Ulduar in full blues while it was still relevant to prove the 'skill > gear' point).

3.2 added a new dungeon which dropped Ulduar 10-man equivalent gear. This was to even up the barrier of entry for new lvl 80's to get into Trials of the Crusader. Trials of the Champion (dungeon) still had an ilvl requirement though, so you needed to run the regular heroics too. This dungeon was added to bridge new players coming back to WoW to raid relevant content.

LFR is not a bridge for content. LFR is a raid mode that parallels normal/heroic raids with a lower entry level for casual players. As the tiers get raised, the ilvl requirements for LFR will go up, and fresh 90's will have little way of getting gear to catch up and get into new raids (or LFR). That's what new dungeons are there for. People will not be expected to run old raids from 2-3 patches ago to catch up to current content.

WotLK also had 4 tiers of raiding, where MoP will most likely only have 3. Even if there is a wider gap when they release the Siege of Orgrimmar, I'm still convinced that LFR's purpose is also to guide people through the tiers of raiding, so that you have that original progression. What would happen if they release 5 mans with Siege of Orgrimmar that give gear to bridge the content? People wouid run the old raids in LFR less and less. Then the whole idea of progression just falls apart. People will not progress through the actual raids like intended, they will go back to how it was in WotLK and Cata. Which I think wasn't such a bad thing, but I don't think Blizzard will go for that.

[Magpai]

I dont buy the argument that they are putting all their effort towards 1 raid, so there isnt time to make dungeons.

blizzard makes a LOT of fucking money, off subs and other things. I dont see how it can be that hard to hire a few people to create some dungeons.

You have absolutely no idea about the specifics of Blizzard's employment nor man hours they are spending on this raid, nor how many it takes to make new 5mans. All you have is some vague opinion that has ONE basis: I want more. You'd be better qualified critiquing the lunch schedule of the President.

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 09:34 AM ----------

They promised faster content patchs. Seems faster content patch = less content[COLOR="red"]

This is exactly what they promised, smaller more frequent content patches. And if you assumed that each content patch meant another raid tier, then that was dumb of you.