Resto Mastery - need for a change?

[Eliot123]

Love resto mastery, it's useful when it is supposed to be useful, and that's when healing is needed.

I'd really rather not have an active mastery like druids do, it's one of the reasons I loathe resto druids. I have a feeling shamans already have enough things to track.

Saying resto mastery isn't useful when the raid isn't low kinda defeats the arguement itself, on progression raid will be low, if it's not then either bring less healers or up the difficulty (or do current end-game content).

[Velthari]

Its what i suggested in the 5.2 Shaman Changes forum on mmo-champ can be found on page 3 also rescaling our healing around the new mastery

Since they are changing the mastery of windwalker monks with a single patch i don't see why they don't change the mastery of restoration shamans. This coming from both pve and pvp stand points as right now a healing surge can easily crit for about 400k+ on low health targets and creates problems in both pve and pvp balences.

i was thinking of a mastery something like this

Mastery: Earth Living, your direct healing spells heal for an additional 30% over 10 sec and Gives your periodic heals a 10% chance to heal twice, each time they heal.(can not proc of the mastery hot)

Mastery scaling 30%+1% per point of mastery for the direct heal and 10%+0.5% for the HoTs to retick(can not proc of the mastery hot).

Also removing the current HoT earth living but keeping the earth living imbue spell power buff or just changing it to a flat 10% increase in healing while earth living imbue is up.

=== Spells effected by mastery =====

Healing Wave
Healing Surge
Greater Healing Wave
Riptide
Unleash Elements
Healing Rain
Healing Stream Totem
Healing Tide Totem

Just something i thought of on the spot as i noticed they were changing the mastery of windwalker monks.

If anyone has any other ideas throw them out lets try get something that is actually useful even after progression in raiding and isn't something overpowered on clutch healing in pvp.

Also Eliot123 ur tracking 3 buffs at max which is not hard at all in any way which are riptide, tidal waves and earth shield.

[Devious009]

My question for those who want to change resto mastery, what's wrong with it ? Is it not doing what it is supposed to? Is it not useful ?

[Eliot123]

So why do we even want something else to track? Especially something as stupid as active mastery? I don't have problems changing mastery (not that it is needed in any way) but changing it for something as despicable as active mastery (a la druid one) is just stupid.

Edit: My point being, shamans don't have as many things to track as e.g. disc priest, and I'm perfectly fine with that, it's how shamans work (atm anyways).

The suggested one in post #22 reminds me a lot of Holy Priest mastery which, at least to my knowledge, is kinda bleh, no?

[Sarevokcz]

My question for those who want to change resto mastery, what's wrong with it ? Is it not doing what it is supposed to? Is it not useful ?

its way too powerful in pvp, but nerfs are targetting everything else, including abilities shared with enha and ele. And in PvE, its arguable balanced with heavy raid damage in mind, so we are competitive of sorts when damage is high, but weak when its not.

[Devious009]

its way too powerful in pvp, but nerfs are targetting everything else, including abilities shared with enha and ele. And in PvE, its arguable balanced with heavy raid damage in mind, so we are competitive of sorts when damage is high, but weak when its not.

Being powerful in PvP is normal given how the mastery works because of the bursty nature of damage there which with the recent nerfs to both shamans and burst damage should even things out, in PvE its working perfectly since thats how again our mastery is designed, like a previous poster said the mastery is working all the time wither the raid is high or low on hp and it's the most useful healing mastery on progress encounters when content is relevant ... I think you want to see it changed because of how enh and ele got nerfed because of resto not because there is something wrong with it

Edit: I wanted to add, look at the resto spec as a whole with all its toolkits and not just the mastery alone

[Sarevokcz]

Being powerful in PvP is normal given how the mastery works because of the bursty nature of damage there which with the recent nerfs to both shamans and burst damage should even things out, in PvE its working perfectly since thats how again our mastery is designed, like a previous poster said the mastery is working all the time wither the raid is high or low on hp and it's the most useful healing mastery on progress encounters when content is relevant ... I think you want to see it changed because of how enh and ele got nerfed because of resto not because there is something wrong with it

I have commented on resto mastery being problematic since 4.0, but nice try.

Also it obviously is most powerful on progression encounters. But hell, if its so strong healing output mechanic, it sure as hell doesnt show anywhere compared to other healers.

Edit: I wanted to add, look at the resto spec as a whole with all its toolkits and not just the mastery alone

I have looked at our toolkit. And its being constantly nerfed for all specs, not just resto. When they start putting more resto specific nerfs and less global shaman nerfs, you might have a point.

Also what do you think changed form LK to Cata? why was suddenly resto THE arena healer, when we had basically the same toolkit from LK and we got "just" mastery? (and UE, which was nerfed pretty quickly anyway) Why the numerous nerfs to grounding, wind shear, cleansing talent, healing surge, tremor and other things didnt even shake resto dominance in arenas?

[Devious009]

I have commented on resto mastery being problematic since 4.0, but nice try.

Also it obviously is most powerful on progression encounters. But hell, if its so strong healing output mechanic, it sure as hell doesnt show anywhere compared to other healers.


I have looked at our toolkit. And its being constantly nerfed for all specs, not just resto. When they start putting more resto specific nerfs and less global shaman nerfs, you might have a point.

Also what do you think changed form LK to Cata? why was suddenly resto THE arena healer, when we had basically the same toolkit from LK and we got "just" mastery? (and UE, which was nerfed pretty quickly anyway) Why the numerous nerfs to grounding, wind shear, cleansing talent, healing surge, tremor and other things didnt even shake resto dominance in arenas?

Who's talking about wotlk and cata ? I'm talking about now in mop with the new talent system with the change to interrupts dispelling ccing and healing. Are you saying that if they excluded shamans from all these changes and kept all those abilities in their original form + all the new stuff we got in mop that shamans will be perfectly fine ?

It does show, on progress raids and heroic encounters when the tier is relevant, you can't be doing the same healing on both progress and farm content just like how other healers can't put the same numbers on progress and farm content

P.s: if you think the cleansing + heal talent didn't need a nerf at that time then I don't know what your definition of balance is cuz being able to spam dispell and heal some one in one gcd is pretty op in my book

[Sarevokcz]

Who's talking about wotlk and cata ? I'm talking about now in mop with the new talent system with the change to interrupts dispelling ccing and healing. Are you saying that if they excluded shamans from all these changes and kept all those abilities in their original form + all the new stuff we got in mop that shamans will be perfectly fine ?

Yes, you talk now as if resto was top choice NOW and not for the last two years, which makes no sense. Im talking about the whole time since resto became the top choice for arena healer. And Ill say it again, they are nerfing the wrong things, while leaving the most important one untouched. they could nerf talents to hell and back and resto would still be too powerful.

It does show, on progress raids and heroic encounters when the tier is relevant, you can't be doing the same healing on both progress and farm content just like how other healers can't put the same numbers on progress and farm content

the thing is, it DOESNT show, most heroics on raidbots are still in "progress" stage for most of the comunity, yet shaman is already pretty weak output wise on most of them.

P.s: if you think the cleansing + heal talent didn't need a nerf at that time then I don't know what your definition of balance is cuz being able to spam dispell and heal some one in one gcd is pretty op in my book

priests did it too with glyph... the difference? Our heal from it scaled too well with... you guessed it, mastery.

They are targeting the wrong things to nerf.

[rmlunsford]

I agree with this. Ive always wanted a slightly different mastery. Whilst ours is great for healing new content, its absolutely awful for healing farm content. Your idea could make it useful to get a bit of mastery during farm content and get our haste more valuable if it gives another tick of this new hot.

Can someone please explain why in the heck anyone cares about anything but progression? Once its farm content no one cares, it doesn't freaking matter. You will down the boss regardless of what the heck your mastery does. Sweet jesus your priorities are just terrible.

[Devious009]

Yes, you talk now as if resto was top choice NOW and not for the last two years, which makes no sense. Im talking about the whole time since resto became the top choice for arena healer. And Ill say it again, they are nerfing the wrong things, while leaving the most important one untouched. they could nerf talents to hell and back and resto would still be too powerful. the thing is, it DOESNT show, most heroics on raidbots are still in "progress" stage for most of the comunity, yet shaman is already pretty weak output wise on most of them.

priests did it too with glyph... the difference? Our heal from it scaled too well with... you guessed it, mastery.

They are targeting the wrong things to nerf.

You answered yes, sorry at this point I don't know if I should be taking you seriously because you are talking as if you accounted for everything if shaman abilities were kept in their original form, before the totem nerd resto was out of control and you want to give them the old tremor, wind shear, grounding, etc etc back ? Get real

Can you link the data that you are looking at that says resto shaman are weak on most heroic encounters ? Although resto mastery is hard to measure to numbers given how it works I want to see how bad you claim it is

You also forgot the most important part of the cleansing talent which was the bigger factor, reducing mana cost by 40% which what most healers cared about, I can't remember the priest's glyph but all I know is it didn't compare to resto shaman's cleanse and even when the priests had it you didn't see them spamming it.

[Gurushock]

This post is garbage. The end =/

[Devious009]

Can someone please explain why in the heck anyone cares about anything but progression? Once its farm content no one cares, it doesn't freaking matter. You will down the boss regardless of what the heck your mastery does. Sweet jesus your priorities are just terrible.

People want to top the healing meters on farm content too ? I have no idea beats me

[rmlunsford]

People want to top the healing meters on farm content too ? I have no idea beats me

Then heal better. Its not the fault of mastery that you don't top farm meters. Ok let me rephrase. Why the hell do you want to change what is an incredible progression stat into an incredible farm stat?

[ValiumMm]

So many people QQ'ing because they cant snipe heals on farm content. Our mastery is the best mastery on progression, and isnt this game about killing new bosses? Our mastery is a lot better on 25m though compared to 10m, I like crit more on 10m tbh

[Devious009]

Then heal better. Its not the fault of mastery that you don't top farm meters. Ok let me rephrase. Why the hell do you want to change what is an incredible progression stat into an incredible farm stat?

I was being sarcastic, sorry if I seemed to be serious. Check my earlier posts I'm against changing the mastery

[Sarevokcz]

You answered yes, sorry at this point I don't know if I should be taking you seriously because you are talking as if you accounted for everything if shaman abilities were kept in their original form, before the totem nerd resto was out of control and you want to give them the old tremor, wind shear, grounding, etc etc back ? Get real

You have reading problems or what? I never said I want the nerfs reverted. but obviously even after all these nerfs resto is still way too powerful. They nerfed pretty much everything they can to not affect pve (much), it should be obvious to anyone by now, that our utility toolkit isnt the main problem behind resto OPness

Can you link the data that you are looking at that says resto shaman are weak on most heroic encounters ? Although resto mastery is hard to measure to numbers given how it works I want to see how bad you claim it is

Is it too hard to type raidbots.com and see for yourself? We have 3 good fights but on the rest we are pretty much below average and on several of them dead last. And Thats on 25man, 10man is even worse. Obviously this super duper mastery for progression doesnt match the output of other healers too much

You also forgot the most important part of the cleansing talent which was the bigger factor, reducing mana cost by 40% which what most healers cared about, I can't remember the priest's glyph but all I know is it didn't compare to resto shaman's cleanse and even when the priests had it you didn't see them spamming it.

Yet the manacost wasnt nerfed... And like I said, the priest dispel heal didnt compare because our was boosted by mastery, otherwise they healed for not so different values

[Deleted]

Our mastery is dog compared to other healers. Yes it's useful on progress, but even then, does it boost our overall output so much that we can compete with the top healing classes? Nope. Our mastery is meant to shine on progression, yet even then when raid is low most of the time, it only brings us in line with other healers (barely). Not to mention that by the time we have significant mastery levels on our gear for it to make a difference, content is over and we're onto farm.

If our mastery was strong enough for raid leaders to go 'Oh, we definitely need a shaman for this progression fight because of the throughput they bring because of their mastery', there wouldn't be an issue.

Can someone please explain why in the heck anyone cares about anything but progression? Once its farm content no one cares, it doesn't freaking matter. You will down the boss regardless of what the heck your mastery does. Sweet jesus your priorities are just terrible.

It's not a priority to top heeps on farm, but I'm sure there are others out there who can agree that there's still some fun in trying to push your best and do well. I at least try and beat my amount of healing each week on each fight. It's fun to push yourself, so when you're unable to do this because you're relying on the raid dropping on farm content, the enjoyment can be taken out of it

As you said, it's not a priority, but it is a game afterall.

[Spectral]

So why do we even want something else to track? Especially something as stupid as active mastery?

Players that are sufficiently bad that they can't remember to cast a Regrowth or HT with Clearcasting once every 20 seconds should take a small penalty for their badness. I think that's a good thing, as I'd rather have more things in the game to distinguish me from incompetent healers rather than less.

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 08:47 AM ----------

So many people QQ'ing because they cant snipe heals on farm content.

It's a meter driven mentality that comes from inexperience healing relevant content in a competent group setting. If all someone's running is LFR and outdated content, they're bound to overvalue the number on Recount/Skada.

[Seriss]

I don't mind our mastery, but I see it causes problems in PvP that in turn cause our class to receive nerfs that it may not deserve.

I've personally always loved the thought of shaman mastery creating shields. Either something like earth shields (though only triggering on hits is a bit silly... maybe trigger on incoming damage of any kind or just after a certain time or so...) or maybe a more classic way of absorb shields, much like the one that our Bulwark totem creates.

Again, I don't think we need changing from a PvE-PoV, but our mastery messes with us in PvP too much.