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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostSkull View Post
    You're wrong. Even hardcore raiders use LFR to become familiar with the raids before they tackle the harder modes.
    Then how are they clearing Normals BEFORE LFR is accessible ?

    I'm fine with an incentive-based system like this, but I'd focus on those binary mechanics that are already monitored and given advice by WoW. ie.. "Oh you stood in fire there, you should move out of it." and if none of the things fail, and dps/heals are ABOVE a certain point (ie... ranking doesnt matter if you're doing close to par dps.) then award a lesser charm or two. NOT MORE LOOT and DEFINITELY don't adjust the base loot drop chances.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    In normal raids random loot is fine. As a group you always will get a few useful items and loot isn't the main reason you raid.

    But in LFR random loot really kills the fun for me personally. Because let's face it, you do LFR for items. Hitting those loot pinatas isn't exactly thrilling.

    My solution: make loot in LFR performance based. The chance you get an item on a boss increases if you perform well. For example: you are a dps and you do 80% of the dps possible with your gear (based on itemlevel) your chance to get an item is 80%

    Pros:
    - people will actually try during LFR raids to increase their chance to get loot
    - LFR becomes more fun, since you want to maximize your dps, healing or tanking to get loot
    good luck implenting that. its not the blizzard don't want a preform based change. its imposible to implant. look how hard it is for the game to see your specs and roles you can que up for.....

  3. #123
    They would have to write specific rules for each fight so that "performance" could be measured.

    After all DPS is not just about mashing buttons and hitting top of meters right?

    You would they have to calculate (somehow) fairly how gear factors in, what is the point in someone who turns up in full heroic gear for his VP getting gear when the person with 460 gear has no chance because he can't keep up, is that not the enitre point of LFR is to give the non raiders some way to advance there toon?

    How would you asses Healer performance, man its bad enough that we have healing meters at all (don't get me wrong HPS is important for some fights) but it is the least important stat in almost all fights, the most important factor is did someone die who was not standing in fire? Can we really messure that?

    Really struggling with how you would measure Tank performance even more.

    So if you can solve all those problems, and then make it so it does not delay content in any way shape or form I might say it was a good idea, right now I am afraid it is not

  4. #124
    This wouldn't work at all. It can't take into account mitigating circumstances, and other people. For example, if I am a dps and I die due to nobody healing me, I get impacted on gear. If I am a tank and I die due to lack of healing, same thing. If I am a healer and I die to a mob on me, same scenario.

    It can't work, and is a bad idea i'm afraid. The current system is fine in my opinion, as you can get extra rolls on the bosses -you- want, not the ones you don't.

  5. #125
    I'm not sure I would agree with this, how are we measuring performance? Someone who just hit the minimum ilvl for lfr is most likely going to be doing much less dps then someone who is in a 4set of regular tier gear. Even if they are similar in skill the better geared player should be out performing the lower geared player otherwise there is definitely an issue lol. So ow are we comparing performance? Also on certain fights where classes with really strong aoe damage are just hammering the dps chart how do you compare that to a class with relatively weak aoe dps? What happens when a healer pulls an "oops my bad" and you die? Or how about a tank that can't hold aggro well enough so you die? There are just way too many issues for this to really work. I like the idea and I'm tired of seeing a dps toon score lower then a healer on the charts but its just too subjective to work well.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillicis View Post
    How would you encourage tanks and healers?

    Overhealing for better gear?
    Believe it or not, but tanks do damage, and their damage actually matters every now and then (not so much in LFR, but that's whole another point), and as for healers, the oposite, healing as efficiently as possible - ie. mixture of healing thourghtput and low overhealing

    Quote Originally Posted by Psykotiq View Post
    I'm not sure I would agree with this, how are we measuring performance? Someone who just hit the minimum ilvl for lfr is most likely going to be doing much less dps then someone who is in a 4set of regular tier gear. Even if they are similar in skill the better geared player should be out performing the lower geared player otherwise there is definitely an issue lol. So ow are we comparing performance? Also on certain fights where classes with really strong aoe damage are just hammering the dps chart how do you compare that to a class with relatively weak aoe dps? What happens when a healer pulls an "oops my bad" and you die? Or how about a tank that can't hold aggro well enough so you die? There are just way too many issues for this to really work. I like the idea and I'm tired of seeing a dps toon score lower then a healer on the charts but its just too subjective to work well.
    It's not about absolute numbers, but about relative numbers - you have ilvl 470 and sim says you should be doing about x dps. You do 70% of that so you get loot chance increased by y.

  7. #127
    So any guy in heroic gear gets a really damn good chance to get gear he doesn't need and take away the chance from players who do?
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  8. #128
    Problem with rewarding people for "performance" is that "Good performance" is multi-faceted, there's simple DPS/HPS/TPS of course, avoiding bad stuff, doing other non-measurable stuff (Tank-switching at just the right time, proper dispelling), and of course doinng things outside your strict raid role to help the raid (Offtanking because a tank is kissing floor and is getting Battle-rezzed, off-healing), and on top of all those, you want the benchmarks to scale with gear, so overgeared people don't get all the benefits from this system just for being overgeared...

    If that block of text seems complicated, imagine having to write code to actually take all that into account :P

  9. #129
    The flip side of rewarding people who play well is punishing those who play badly. This system accomplishes both, and that's not the point of LFR. You can beat every boss in LFR doing 50% of what you could. It's tuned that way for a reason.

  10. #130
    Uptime or activity could be the performance measurement. AFKs dont deserve anything whereas people that actually heal, tank or DPS get a better chance to vendor 60g loot over a 28g bag.

  11. #131
    Mechagnome Icaras's Avatar
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    Meh, RNG is RNG dude. Just like LFR, sometimes you can have a dry spell of no drops/wins on even normal and heroic modes. LFR loot is fine, you can't really expect to gear up in just 1 or 2 weeks. Suck it up, Jack!

    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
    -Warrior Wisdom

  12. #132
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Ilvl!= performance, across the board. I could have the same ilvl as someone else, but a better weapon and 4p and beat them by 15k DPS. Also how would u measure healers and tanks? In a perfect world, good idea. No good way to do it, bad idea.

  13. #133
    Like every person who whines about LFR loot you're ignorant of basic probability. You have the same chance at LFR loot as you did in DS if everyone rolled only one what they could use. It's not worse. You just don't see what others get. Now quit fucking whining. Or do you just want them to mail you epics when you hit 90?

  14. #134
    Grunt
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    I think it is not possible to measure all the thing in LFR.

    Seen ninja pull at bosses so many times, how can you prepare for it? (Sometime even locked out half the raid from the room)
    Not have time for tanks to discuss how to do it, because dps can not wait 30 sec before pull.
    Random things that lower your dps, like MC-ed.
    If you die because of lack of healing
    You do less dps, beacuse you ran out from raid with fire, while others put it inside raid.
    Some dps/tank will do dispell/heal to avoid death, reducing performance (dps/tps, anything) for the success of the raid.

    So many things that will ruin the system.

    But would be nice to queue on your Main Spec, while you could select a different spec on loot.
    This will eliminate they need to queue on your OS and will increase the whole raid performance.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    I am a casual actually. And it's not like performing worse will make your chances of loot 0%.
    I bet it'd be pretty frustrating if your performance is subpar so you don't get loot and you have no idea how to improve.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Like every person who whines about LFR loot you're ignorant of basic probability. You have the same chance at LFR loot as you did in DS if everyone rolled only one what they could use. It's not worse. You just don't see what others get. Now quit fucking whining. Or do you just want them to mail you epics when you hit 90?
    Actually, for the raid as a whole (not the individual), it is actually BETTER then in DS, since under the new system, there is a statistically small chance that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE RAID could win loot off of the same boss kill. When everyone rolls on their own personal loot table, with no impact on anyone elses's chances, everyone benefits. Instead of DS style stupidity like only having 4-5 items drop, and losing them all to people who already have better items / dont even want it but rolled anyway / take it for their second or third offspec / etc, etc.

  17. #137
    i actually like the idea. it'd be hard to judge but if blizz is smart enough to run simulations of theoretical dps.. they can figure out how much a fresh ilvl 463 90 should do vs a 488 ilvl...

    its better to reward players that dont suck. vs ones that just afk and wait for free loot instead of being useful.

    obviously they could stop the process of measuring if some1 dies due to lack of healing or too much dmg taken within 5 seconds.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    These players get penalised in almost every single game they'll ever attempt to play, almost every single aspect of wow, hell even in most aspects in life. In lfr the penalisation isn't major (the group will simply have a slightly harder time to get through the bosses, they are slightly more likely to get kicked) but it's still there. The world (real or of warcraft) isn't fair, deal with it.
    Such an arrogant, egotistical, silly answer it is unreal. I am very sure most disabled people are quite aware the "world isn't fair", but contrary to your pontificating and diatribe, legally, companies are required to NOT discriminate. Disabled people have to go through unfairness in every part of their lives, they have to deal with it on a daily basis, even something as trying to get into a restaurant if your in a wheelchair is fraught with far more hassle than an able=bodied person. I am sure they are completely happy though, when some child on the internet decides to start preaching of course, how life isn't fair and they need to deal with it.

    Again though it's besides the point, Legislation and legal statute dictates that NO company can discriminate, and making some arbitrary loot system linked into performance in game whereby they have no hope of being able to be treated equally to others by dearth of a physical/mental disability WOULD be classified as discrimination.

    Learn to at least *think* a little before spouting off such complete, farcical dribbling nonsense

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