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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    And affliction pvp dps was soooo great before this?

    Affliction never had great dps to begin with, it has always been a war of attrition spec with some utility.
    War of attrition with insane damage but no burst. To say aff dps was low is just... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medieve View Post
    So if we shifted that damage to SB, how does that solve anything? Or change anything?
    Do you need everything spoon-fed? Damage would be shifted back to dots, where it always has been for affliction.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    maybe even how the dot portion of chaos bolt should be removed and sac should have cast time reduction effect on chaos bolt.
    To quote Columbo, "Before I go, just one more thing", I've heard this suggestion asked a lot, to permenantly cut the cast time of Chaos Bolt. But my question is, would it do any good? Chaos Bolt has two functions, burst (Multiple Chaos Bolts in a short peroid of time) and mana-maintanence (ie, allowing mana to be regenerated by not casting a mana-consuming spell). Now, shortening the cast time of Chaos Bolt would work fairly well for burst, but it would hurt mana regeneration. Blizzard obviously doesn't want Chaos Bolt to be too bursty in PvP situations, or else we would have GoSac back as normal. And shortening the cast time would decrease the time to allow mana to regen, which in PvE situations is quite bad. Now I'm not too sure on the numbers, but I think the general theory behind Chaos Bolt is that using it singularly in rotations (ie, using it as soon as you get an ember, only one Chaos Bolt) isn't meant to be an increase over Incinerate, and the most effective time is at 4 embers/under 60k mana to burn one and regen the other. My personal suggestion to this change is to remove Chaos Bolt from GoSac, increase the damage it gives to Incinerate/Conflag/whatever else to balance out, and balance the numbers so that multiple Chaos Bolts are more powerful than the equivalent time for multiple Incinerates, but one to two CBs would be equal to Incinerate, allowing for burst but making our damage not reliant on CB, and generally increasing our static (sustainable? Is that the word?) damage at the loss of a little (the GoSac) CB ramp up burst (but not all). For PvP, with a lessened CB damage, backdraft could indeed lower CB cast, maybe more than it does now I'm not sure, (I know that sounds like I'm backtracking, but it's a PvP specific cast-time cut that would not be used in PvE, since spell weights differ in both areas) without being claimed to be "uber-burst".

    The difference there is that if GoSac automatically reduced the cast time, it'd have a knock on effect in PvE areas, and if Chaos Bolt damage remains as it is, but at lower cast speed (think GoSac reduction PLUS Backdraft) I couldn't see it staying long.

    I know it's easier to say than to do, but I'd rather the spec depended on CB not as it's largest weapon 24/7, and to give it's sustained damage a bit of a boost. I dunno, I am insane.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 01:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Do you need everything spoon-fed? Damage would be shifted back to dots, where it always has been for affliction.
    Your first sentence amuses me, mortal. You shall not be fed to hyenas tonight. But, riddle me this: DoT spec combined with nuke that is not-dot-dependant plus lack of burst poured into cleave boss fights and what do we get? Once your DoTs are up in a multi-dot cleave environment (I mean two bosses, for example, not 100 Trogglings AoE spamfest) what do we do until our DoTs need refreshing?* Do we twiddle our thumbs casting a nuke that barely hits and could easily be replaced by any other spell we have? Do use a healing drain instead of the nuke because it does the same damage and at least gives us heals? Do we put a stacking debuff on the nuke to make it appear "important" so that we -have- to use it, despite being low damage? Or do we try to incorporate DoTs into our nuke, perhaps using that drain mechanic people liked without giving heals since that'd be overpow--- Oh, sorry, it seems in my blanking out I appear to have been flashing back to late Wrath and Cataclysm up until the MoP changes. Strange.

    *Which is leaving aside the painfully obvious fact that any spec with DoTs more powerful than, and not dependant on, it's nukes are most certainly going to ace every single non-single target encounter, every movement encounter, every encounter where the boss goes into phasing but DoTs still tick (not sure if there was one, covering my bases) and every encounter where the player must stop spellcasting themselves but allow their DoTs to tick (a la that dragon boss before the ship in Demon Soul).
    Last edited by Queen Ultima; 2012-12-28 at 01:29 AM.

  3. #23
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    As far as spoon feeding goes, Queen Ultima did it better . Perhaps you could spoon feed how you'd make it work and not be incredibly imbalanced, while making fillers relevant?

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medieve View Post
    As far as spoon feeding goes, Queen Ultima did it better . Perhaps you could spoon feed how you'd make it work and not be incredibly imbalanced, while making fillers relevant?
    xD Honestly, I'm just doing this to sort out the frustration of an Xbox Live that chooses not to connect and let me play my N7 Fury...

    So, assuming you're talking about Affliction? Well, I honestly think that Malefic Grasp, aside from having a cool name and looking awesome, is competant in it's function. It adds to DoTs, without taking away (as in it adds a tick without speeding it up and causing you to have to refresh more). Looking at random WoL Warlock logs (damn the research I'm doing), and going purely from assumptions from spell percentages, WoL logs, WoWHead, known mechanics and general feel (feel as in gut instinct), I'm not too sure what the problem with the Affli rotation is. Ideally, a "good" DoT feel, imho, is "put up DoTs, use filler, and proc-spell, with ability to burst down with cooldowns when needed". Maybe that's Affli's true problem, it can't burst that well. Assuming Doomguard is kept for <20% HP, using Grim of Sac (not sure what it'll be after 5.2), the only real tool is DS: Misery (getting Stephen King withdrawl ) and Haunt spam. But, this isn't a problem that Affli alone has, Shadow too is in need of a burst option, probably moreso than Affliction.

    Going in general, "true" DoT classes need to have the majority of their damage done by DoTs, but to reign in DoTs in a consistant fashion, there need to be conditions. Take Shadow, largest hitting spell is DP, but DP needs 3 Shadow Orbs which need three Mind Blasts which can be reset by using Mind Flay (with talents). Fire depends on ignite and Pyroblast but both depend on Fireball (indeed, I always think Mages "simplify" the resource/DoT/pet styles as their "trope"). Not to go on with Unholy, (is Balance considered a DoT spec?..), and Rogues.

  5. #25
    Haven't read everything here, but I do have another thing to suggest.

    What, if GoSac would no longer increase the dot damage of Chaosbolt but instead changes Chaosbolt to consume only one backdraft Stack upon usage?

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulljin View Post
    Haven't read everything here, but I do have another thing to suggest.

    What, if GoSac would no longer increase the dot damage of Chaosbolt but instead changes Chaosbolt to consume only one backdraft Stack upon usage?
    Would be good for burst, but damage would have to be adjusted to avoid QQers in PvP. Doesn't affect PvE, or any other aspect, unless you choose to, so I like your suggestion. Not too sure how powerful non-Sac buffed CB is, but doesn't help the fact that Destro is CB dependant.

  7. #27
    One change I would like is for Grimoire of Sacrifice to be useful to Demo. Currently it feels like we can not touch it at all. =[

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    Would be good for burst, but damage would have to be adjusted to avoid QQers in PvP. Doesn't affect PvE, or any other aspect, unless you choose to, so I like your suggestion. Not too sure how powerful non-Sac buffed CB is, but doesn't help the fact that Destro is CB dependant.
    I The Power of sacced and nonsacced Chaosbolt is the same, the only difference is the Dot GoSac grants after a hit with deals exactly 25% of the damage over 3 seconds. It is nothing to scoff at, sure, but I think people will only barely notice that it would be gone. I think it would be a fair change because You would give up on said dot and on a backdraft stack you would have otherwise used to buff one Incinerate.

    I think it would be a fair change.

    About the CB dependence, an easy fix for that could be, instead or also, giving the two conflag CDs the ability to refresh simultanously which would buff Ember Generation and damage outside from Chaosbolt. Of course there would have to be the obvious finetuning, but it would also make Destro a little more entertaining to play
    Last edited by Skulljin; 2012-12-28 at 02:21 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    xD Honestly, I'm just doing this to sort out the frustration of an Xbox Live that chooses not to connect and let me play my N7 Fury...

    So, assuming you're talking about Affliction? Well, I honestly think that Malefic Grasp, aside from having a cool name and looking awesome, is competant in it's function. It adds to DoTs, without taking away (as in it adds a tick without speeding it up and causing you to have to refresh more). Looking at random WoL Warlock logs (damn the research I'm doing), and going purely from assumptions from spell percentages, WoL logs, WoWHead, known mechanics and general feel (feel as in gut instinct), I'm not too sure what the problem with the Affli rotation is. Ideally, a "good" DoT feel, imho, is "put up DoTs, use filler, and proc-spell, with ability to burst down with cooldowns when needed". Maybe that's Affli's true problem, it can't burst that well. Assuming Doomguard is kept for <20% HP, using Grim of Sac (not sure what it'll be after 5.2), the only real tool is DS: Misery (getting Stephen King withdrawl ) and Haunt spam. But, this isn't a problem that Affli alone has, Shadow too is in need of a burst option, probably moreso than Affliction.

    Going in general, "true" DoT classes need to have the majority of their damage done by DoTs, but to reign in DoTs in a consistant fashion, there need to be conditions. Take Shadow, largest hitting spell is DP, but DP needs 3 Shadow Orbs which need three Mind Blasts which can be reset by using Mind Flay (with talents). Fire depends on ignite and Pyroblast but both depend on Fireball (indeed, I always think Mages "simplify" the resource/DoT/pet styles as their "trope"). Not to go on with Unholy, (is Balance considered a DoT spec?..), and Rogues.
    Oh dear no, I meant Tya could enlighten us with his/her silver spoon .

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medieve View Post
    Oh dear no, I meant Tya could enlighten us with his/her silver spoon .
    Oh dear, lol, I must seem up my own exhaust port. xD

    Also Skulljin: I keep forgetting Destro gained the DoT. But, the question of Chaos Bolt's damage is relative to the other spells in a Destro's arsenal. Probably a case where CB's true "damage" must factor in it's ramp up, and can't be easily ascertained, at least not at 3am... And, from testing, conflag charges are like runes, one must recharge before the other starts. Both refreshing independantly would seem to create the rune chaos that DKs had back in Wrath. Now, I like chaos especially for Destro, but not sure if that's the way to do it

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    War of attrition with insane damage but no burst. To say aff dps was low is just... wrong.



    Do you need everything spoon-fed? Damage would be shifted back to dots, where it always has been for affliction.
    Dot damage alone has never been high in terms of single target damage, at best if you managed to keep a entire team dotted then you could be doing allot of damage.

  12. #32
    Locks are the biggest group of whiners that WoW has. Your class got completely overhauled for MoP, loads of amazing stuff and affliction is one of the top specs at the moment.. Yet you still whine for more changes, more buffs, more green fire etc. If i was GC for the day I'd delete your class.


    Don't tell people they are whiners or that you'd delete their class in their own class forums, that leads to flaming. ~xskarma
    Last edited by xskarma; 2012-12-28 at 01:38 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    Locks are the biggest group of whiners that WoW has. Your class got completely overhauled for MoP, loads of amazing stuff and affliction is one of the top specs at the moment.. Yet you still whine for more changes, more buffs, more green fire etc. If i was GC for the day I'd delete your class.
    I'd argue hunters are, actually, and probably for good reason. But the fact remains that overhaul doesn't necessarily mean GOOD overhaul, and amazing stuff depends on effectiveness and cost in relation to the rest of your toolkit. The only new things locks truly got were meta abilities, fire and brimstone AoE, and the level 90 tier. The rest really is moved from individual specs or rehashed abilities at best.

    Either way, you're not helping. OP gave a wishlist of things OP would like to see changed, and that's fine. The rework wasn't particularly satisfying for OP, and that's to be expected. You can't please everyone every time. Sometimes a few really good ideas come from these lists, and other locks who love the class find it to be very attractive to solve an existing problem or just make lock QoL better. That has nothing to do with whatever amazing stuff a class might have, where DPS rankings are, or even how many revamps your class has gone through. OP isn't satisfied with the current build and has a few ideas to change it for the better, in OP's opinion. The "fun" factor that you'll never see reflected in any sim or any web ranking system. Why is that so offensive to you?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaNew View Post
    *Edited to show the original post instead of link

    ==Talents==

    75 Tier - This tier is good, and I see warlocks experiment with all 3. (This is how talents should be)
    Don't write this again please or they will nerf it too
    Warlocks = a pure dps class transmuted into mosquito in 5.2: buzzing, buzzing, but not hurting anyone.
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaNew View Post
    All you guys are doing is talking bout how this is my wishlist rather than stating your opinions on how it would work.
    You still dont get it ?

    ITS NOT ABOUT 1 persone opinion, its not about 5 ppl opinion, its not about 10 ppl opinion.

    Its about thinking about all 3 spec in ALL situation, so raids/5 men dungeons/lvling/soloing old content + PvP -> even more to think about it - cos you must think not only about warlocks but also about each other class in game.




    Yes i could wrote my wishlist aswell. But that has nothing to do with serious rebuilding options like you, and many ppl like you, are trying to do in your posts. You are seeing mayby 5% of all and want to make changes . Thats wrong, that will never be taken serious. It only makes you more cry that blizzard is ignoring this.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Do you need everything spoon-fed? Damage would be shifted back to dots, where it always has been for affliction.
    You don't remember a debuff called "Shadow Embrace" then?

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