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  1. #21
    SwP, VT, and Mind Sear can all target things behind or out of frontal cone. So yeah, you can get off a MB on the move, but still need to have target in front of you. Mind Flay moving would allow more use of strafing combat for us.

  2. #22
    The Patient Ramaloce's Avatar
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    I have always played with the idea of mind flay while moving. Would love to see it implemented one day, it would give shadow a 'real' slow (one where we can move faster then our target for once).
    Though I do have a question for the people that said/will say that it would be OP because it slows. How is that different from another caster putting their slow on a target and move away and cast? Our slow would have to be constantly maintained and the target would no longer be slowed the instant any CC or interrupt were thrown our way or started casting anything else, not only that we would be force facing the target to re-channel every < 3 seconds just to keep the slowing effect on the target so we couldn't be continuously be running away from the target.

  3. #23
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    I dont think that is a bad thing. Maybe Mindflay on the move is to strong, a other suggestion is making VT on the move. In pvp it's almost impossible to stand still with all the cc flying around. Strafing is something that i find very good to use but there is nothing we can cast on the move besides our procs wich is already heavy rng.

    -Mindflay able to cast while moving ( maybe glyph or make it passive and remove the slow)
    -VT able to cast while moving (remove the slow from Mindflay and add a passive slow when VT is on the target)

    Just trying to figure something out that would make shadow a bit more mobile in fights. Besides our procs everything is needed to be cast, wich can be interrupted all the time.

  4. #24
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    Isn't the disadvantage of your only slow being tied to a channel that...it's tied to a channel? And once you interrupt it (which is easier than a normal cast) the slow is over.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    Mind Flay also slows the target, is that correct? So, if a Priest dots a melee, then starts running while slowing/kiting/damaging him with Mind Flay seems fair? Lets say the melee finds a way to get in melee range, then the Priest fears, roots him, dots again and kites again with mind flay..... I dont see it happening in reality. Nice to dream about it though!
    That's what mages have been doing since day one.
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  6. #26
    It seems some people bring this up as a PvP concern. May I ask why?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief View Post
    That's what mages have been doing since day one.
    Except you can dispel a frost mage slow and they have to cast it again, not have it instantly refrreshed by the channel you're casting.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Except you can dispel a frost mage slow and they have to cast it again, not have it instantly refrreshed by the channel you're casting.
    Except most dispells(if not all of them) have a 8 second cooldown > Mass dispell on 15seconds.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaloce View Post
    I have always played with the idea of mind flay while moving. Would love to see it implemented one day, it would give shadow a 'real' slow (one where we can move faster then our target for once).
    Though I do have a question for the people that said/will say that it would be OP because it slows. How is that different from another caster putting their slow on a target and move away and cast? Our slow would have to be constantly maintained and the target would no longer be slowed the instant any CC or interrupt were thrown our way or started casting anything else, not only that we would be force facing the target to re-channel every < 3 seconds just to keep the slowing effect on the target so we couldn't be continuously be running away from the target.
    Because you also do damage while moving and slowing him with just one ability, and melee's have to come close to you to do most of his offensive abilities. Others would have to stop to do damage and then a melee has a bigger chance to catch you. A melee would almost never catch a spriest if they get such a change to mind flay. Look at this situation:

    1. Imagine a melee running to a spriest or using a cap closer.
    2. The spriest will then mind flay while running away. It slows him, so you will quick and easily get away from him. Maybe cast a SW:P and recast Mind flay quick, and when getting really far, you can stop mind flaying and start casting other stuff like vampiric touch, flash heal and other stuff.
    3. When he gets too close or using cap closer again, you start from 2 again.

    Yes there are silences and interrupts, but it would still make spriest superior to most melees which should never be the case for any class. A melee has to be in short range most of the time, to be able to silence/interrupt him. How is that possible with cd on silences and the ability to kite endlessly otherwise?

    Atm. spriest dont really need buffs for PvP. They have decent survivorbility and plenty of utility for being viable for arena. Quality of life improvements should never be of the table though, since it should also be fun to play the class. So the solution should just be to make it castable while moving but remove the slow with a major glyph. Everybody is happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Isn't the disadvantage of your only slow being tied to a channel that...it's tied to a channel? And once you interrupt it (which is easier than a normal cast) the slow is over.
    That situation is covered in this post too. You can silence/interrupt him once every few 15 sec or so(whatever the cd is). But what about after? Or what about before you are in range to the spriest? If you are a melee, you will almost never get to him if he does what I said in the situation I suggested earlier in this post, without any help from team mates.
    Last edited by Flanito; 2012-12-27 at 08:59 PM.

  10. #30
    There's no need for this in PvP or PvE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    I'd like WoW to be a single player game

  11. #31
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    It seems some people bring this up as a PvP concern. May I ask why?
    Sure, well it aint realy a concern or a thing we NEED, it would be usefull to a spell that is already shit. Being able to get that extra mobility is usefull for both pvp and pve ( movement with different boss fights.

    PS- I dont think it would break anything in the game, as other people mentioned and i am 1 of them. Always imagined how it would be to have mindflay or vamparic touch on the move.

  12. #32
    The Patient Ramaloce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flanito View Post
    Because you also do damage while moving and slowing him with just one ability, and melee's have to come close to you to do most of his offensive abilities. Others would have to stop to do damage and then a melee has a bigger chance to catch you. A melee would almost never catch a spriest if they get such a change to mind flay. Look at this situation:

    1. Imagine a melee running to a spriest or using a cap closer.
    2. The spriest will then mind flay while running away. It slows him, so you will quick and easily get away from him. Maybe cast a SW:P and recast Mind flay quick, and when getting really far, you can stop mind flaying and start casting other stuff like vampiric touch, flash heal and other stuff.
    3. When he gets too close or using cap closer again, you start from 2 again.

    Yes there are silences and interrupts, but it would still make spriest superior to most melees which should never be the case for any class. A melee has to be in short range most of the time, to be able to silence/interrupt him. How is that possible with cd on silences and the ability to kite endlessly otherwise?
    But every melee also has a slow as well for the same speed reduction(unless you count shiv'ed cripple then it's more). Your scenario assumes that the melee never puts a slow on the priest when the melee first catches up with the spriest, Which would be a l2play issue with the melee in question. A more realistic scenario would be:
    1)spriest sees melee coming close
    2) spriest quickly casts vamp touch and pain the moment melee reachs 40yard range.
    3) melee uses the first GCD in melee range after using gap closer to apply their slow. then starts to beat on priest
    4) priest pops fear to attempt to gain distance, then trys to channal mind flay while moving away to help emphasize that
    5) melee pops either there fear break/immune or trinket if they lack one and stay in melee range and interrupt mind flay and keep beating on priest
    6) melee stuns priest just as the lockout is finishs, priest counters with their own trinket.
    7) priest uses tier 1 talent (roots/Psyfiend) to gain distance. Melee counters this by either quickly killing it or using another cooldown that can counter it.
    8) If melee hasn't killed priest by the time step 4 happens again. The melee is most likely to be dead do to not having the most if not any of the cooldowns to re-counter the priest's CC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flanito View Post
    Atm. spriest dont really need buffs for PvP.
    This, I do agree with. I just like the idea of mind flay while moving. It would be too much for spriest if they just added that to our current set of tools, but doesn't mean I wont debate the idea of it.

  13. #33
    I think some thing is getting misinterpreted. We would not be able to run away while casting. Strafe yes, move closer yes, back peddle I will concede is moving away, but we would not be able to flay while running with our back to the target.

    They experimented with it by allowing us to flay while riding a camel in Cata. It is an interesting idea, but I would hate to see what mechanics they would add to the game to counter us being able to do so, more movement intensive fights, etc.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    Being able to get that extra mobility is usefull for both pvp and pve ( movement with different boss fights.
    Mobility isn't an issue in PvP against most classes, and with the MF glyph mobility isn't an issue in PvE. I agree MF is totally boring, but this isn't the way to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowheals View Post
    I think some thing is getting misinterpreted. We would not be able to run away while casting. Strafe yes, move closer yes, back peddle I will concede is moving away, but we would not be able to flay while running with our back to the target.

    They experimented with it by allowing us to flay while riding a camel in Cata. It is an interesting idea, but I would hate to see what mechanics they would add to the game to counter us being able to do so, more movement intensive fights, etc.
    You can cast it and then turn your back, you just can't start the channel with your back to the target.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    I'd like WoW to be a single player game

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaloce View Post
    But every melee also has a slow as well for the same speed reduction(unless you count shiv'ed cripple then it's more). Your scenario assumes that the melee never puts a slow on the priest when the melee first catches up with the spriest, Which would be a l2play issue with the melee in question. A more realistic scenario would be:
    1)spriest sees melee coming close
    2) spriest quickly casts vamp touch and pain the moment melee reachs 40yard range.
    3) melee uses the first GCD in melee range after using gap closer to apply their slow. then starts to beat on priest
    4) priest pops fear to attempt to gain distance, then trys to channal mind flay while moving away to help emphasize that
    5) melee pops either there fear break/immune or trinket if they lack one and stay in melee range and interrupt mind flay and keep beating on priest
    6) melee stuns priest just as the lockout is finishs, priest counters with their own trinket.
    7) priest uses tier 1 talent (roots/Psyfiend) to gain distance. Melee counters this by either quickly killing it or using another cooldown that can counter it.
    8) If melee hasn't killed priest by the time step 4 happens again. The melee is most likely to be dead do to not having the most if not any of the cooldowns to re-counter the priest's CC.
    Yes, but now it becomes to complicated. :P And you could defend every single OP ability in the history of wow, through these niche situations, or you could always twist it in some way, so it favor's the side you argue from, or use one specific class just to counter the argument(Not that i particularly meant you, but just in general). The reason why I didn't throw in too many factors is because if its too good in most standard situation when cooldows are not up, and its extremely hard to counter in general, its a bad sign and could mean its broken in some way and shouldn't be there in the first place. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaloce View Post
    This, I do agree with. I just like the idea of mind flay while moving. It would be too much for spriest if they just added that to our current set of tools, but doesn't mean I wont debate the idea of it.
    Yes, this is also why I argue against it Im not against the cast while moving part, but the slow is too much. And some say "Well, other classes have that while we dont" and "Other classes can also do that thing while we cannot". But adding it too a spec which is so strong in PvP would just be wrong, and would cause so many QQ threads on the forums. :P You can get the moving part without the slow, as a glyph imo. If its worse than before, then just remove the glyph and still stay strong? =) You dont lose anything. And the PvE spriests will be grateful.
    Last edited by Flanito; 2012-12-27 at 10:35 PM.

  16. #36
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    I see the concerns about it being cast on the move. I still would love to see something like that happen. I think either VT or MF would work, sure we could lose the slow on it, but add the slow to something els. As sSpriest it's already kinda hard sometimes to get distance. ( I do use tendrils/fears etc on right time, but everything is so easily interrupted that it's realy hard sometimes to even get a VT or MB off.

    Both Psyfiend and tendrils can but killed with 2 attacks. So something like that for that little extra distance from ur target will be nice.

    IMHO i dont think either of this is OP anyways but i try to think with u guys.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flanito View Post
    Yes i know spriest has some rng, so its not always you can cast something useful while moving, but no caster is able to move while casting without losing some dps/hps.
    Actually warlocks are able to cast all their spells now while moving and not take a dps hit. Blizzard removed the reduce damage debuff from Kil'jaeden's Cunning in the last patch and warlocks are only taking a movement debuff while casting on the go now.

    The best way Blizzard could go about this is to just change how mind flay works by having it work similar to Kil'jaeden's Cunning in the regard that it will lose the slow effect if you are moving while channeling it. If you are staying still it will put a slow debuff on the target but while moving it will only do damage. Blizzard could even tie a movement debuff to the shadow priests while moving and channeling at the same time because it makes sense lore wise; you have to watch where you are going and focus mentally on the spell at the same time.

    The only issue with this suggestion would be the current glyph tied to mind flay in that it gives a movement speed buff while removing the slow on MF. The best course of action would be to either remove the glyph or change it so that the movement speed buff would negate the movement debuff caused from a non-glyphed mind flay. Without a slow being applied to the target while standing still and only moving at the normal speed there shouldn't be any conflicts from PvE or PvP.

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Icebear's Avatar
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    How about a glyph?
    Glyph of Mind Flay
    You can now move while casting Mind Flay, but your Mind Flay no longer slows the target.

    Would give priests som filler mobility and not make it OP for PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai View Post
    Actually warlocks are able to cast all their spells now while moving and not take a dps hit. Blizzard removed the reduce damage debuff from Kil'jaeden's Cunning in the last patch and warlocks are only taking a movement debuff while casting on the go now.
    Don't forget about hunters who now can cast Steady/Cobra Shot while moving by default and a glyph that makes Aimed Shot castable while moving.
    Last edited by Icebear; 2012-12-28 at 01:19 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Icebear View Post
    How about a glyph?
    Glyph of Mind Flay
    You can now move while casting Mind Flay, but your Mind Flay no longer slows the target.

    Would give priests som filler mobility and not make it OP for PvP.

    Was already said about 20 times in this thread so far, but its absolutely the best idea I've heard in awhile. Spam the US forums with this gents, let's make it happen.

  20. #40
    I know it has it's legitimate uses in PvP, etc..., but am I the only person that finds casting cast-time spells while moving to be ridiculously clunky and awkward? It goes against everything I feel a spellcaster should be. It just doesn't sit well with me. I don't know. I was super excited about Glyph of Unleashed Lightning on my Shaman when it was first announced, and I never use it unless it's an absolute necessity to prevent a huge DPS loss. It just doesn't feel right.

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