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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Biggest semantical argument if I've ever seen one. We could say every game is unfinished, it doesn't make your particular point in this instance any more or less correct. Nothing is ever finished. Our cars have to be taken to the shop to have things replaced, repaired, and upgraded...are we driving unfinished vehicles?

    Semantics, semantics, semantics.
    It is indeed a growing problem in the industry but that doesn't make it semantics. The game is UNFINISHED. Certainly degrees of unfinished exist and Diablo 3 needed more time in the oven. I don't understand why plugging our ears and saying it is what it is is acceptable? I mean if your car was missing a transmission from the assembly line would you say it's a finished car? Obviously not. PvP is a glaring hole in the product that suggests it is unfinished. It is by no means the only glaring hole in the product that suggests this.

  2. #262
    Yeah, personally I don't care if the game is finished. That's like the next level of problems to care for. Right now what would be appreciated is change to the basic gear system, difficulty balancing and overall stopping the gear/gold inflation. If you have 100% inflation a month there is no economy to speak of. And monster power setting feels like developer has given up on balancing the game throwing the responsibility on players. We don't know guys how to balance the game, here you have some rough settings to go by, balance the game yourself. I feel like these should be a better way to do this.

    Anyway without reworking the gear system I am not sure there is any chance of long term PvP to be had. One step at a time sort of deal.

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  3. #263
    Since there are a lot of opinions without backup in this thread lets try something different

    -Missing PvP
    -completely broken builds (55 Hp wizards, 0 cooldown frostnova, perma smoke screen)
    -horribly unbalanced Inferno mode
    -being punished for groupplay due to scaling
    -Monster affixes that makes them impossible to kill, forcing you to restart
    -RMAH not being functional for the first 2? weeks or something (cant quite remember)
    -blue items being better than uniques (not even rare mods required, just high dps)
    -melee forced to go full tank build unless they severly outgear the content anyway
    -chest abuse
    -farming vases for gold

    These are just the things I remember, I didnt play the game since 1 month after its release. I would say that these things are proof of the game being released unfinished/the game not receiving proper Beta testing, no?
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  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    It is indeed a growing problem in the industry but that doesn't make it semantics. The game is UNFINISHED. Certainly degrees of unfinished exist and Diablo 3 needed more time in the oven. I don't understand why plugging our ears and saying it is what it is is acceptable? I mean if your car was missing a transmission from the assembly line would you say it's a finished car? Obviously not. PvP is a glaring hole in the product that suggests it is unfinished. It is by no means the only glaring hole in the product that suggests this.
    But the point is why does it matter? We know how Blizzard products work. We know how many products work. It's not 1990, where we get a game on a CD and that's the extent of it. All of these products constantly evolve. Whether it is to add content or fix content is really irrelevant.

    The reason it is semantics is because that's just how games work now. We can't say that it's bad, because we wind up getting more for our money than we ever used to. The degree to which the 'apparent lack' bothers/affects you is where your only valid argument is. The caveat being that this is really opinionated. You can beat someone with your opinion shovel all you want, but it's not really going to accomplish anything.

    I feel like Diablo 3 wasn't very lasting when it launched, but I never thought that the game was unfinished or broken. I just stopped playing it because it wasn't very fun. Telling me it's unfinished because it didn't have features you wanted or that they were working on won't convince me to have the same opinion.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    But the point is why does it matter? We know how Blizzard products work. We know how many products work. It's not 1990, where we get a game on a CD and that's the extent of it. All of these products constantly evolve. Whether it is to add content or fix content is really irrelevant.

    The reason it is semantics is because that's just how games work now. We can't say that it's bad, because we wind up getting more for our money than we ever used to. The degree to which the 'apparent lack' bothers/affects you is where your only valid argument is. The caveat being that this is really opinionated. You can beat someone with your opinion shovel all you want, but it's not really going to accomplish anything.

    I feel like Diablo 3 wasn't very lasting when it launched, but I never thought that the game was unfinished or broken. I just stopped playing it because it wasn't very fun. Telling me it's unfinished because it didn't have features you wanted or that they were working on won't convince me to have the same opinion.
    PvP was a part of the announced original game only to be removed weeks before launch, it's unfinished product due to that and it's not really arguable like balancing changes is.
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  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    PvP was a part of the announced original game only to be removed weeks before launch, it's unfinished product due to that and it's not really arguable like balancing changes is.
    You are acting like I'm defending their choice to not include PvP...it actually has nothing to do with this specific issue. People will choose to have their opinions on what feature makes the game feel lacking, but there are certainly levels of completeness that games achieve when they launch. Other than the recent DayZ fiasco, this 'not finished' argument is false.

    WoW has launched without tons of features they planned on having, or weren't polished enough to be added until a patch, it doesn't mean the game wasn't finished. And if you want to come back with the argument it's an MMO, there will be patches, yada yada...you only reinforce how I've explained that video game development works now.

    It's not limited to MMOs, this is just the nature of games now. It's fine if you want to be upset about it, if it makes you want to stop playing, but the talking about games as finished/unfinished is silly.

  7. #267
    To say that "it's just the nature of games now" to be released missing Integral content and that THAT somehow justifies releasing it is wrong. Maybe you have lower expectations than I do, but when a game (specifically Diablo) is released without a way to fight friends whatsoever THAT is an incomplete diablo experience. It is really that simple.

    We are not talking about extra maps or some stupid hat that you can buy or other various nonsense that companies love to use in order to nickel and dime their customers. We are talking about a massive part of a game. Even if you yourself never liked it or even played it. It has a large community following that was the main focus of the game for them.

    It's like a FPS title (CoD Halo ect) releasing a game that has co-op campaign but no deathmatch modes.

    The only thing that's "Silly" is getting into a semantics debate over what you THINK qualifies as finished or unfinished based on your own subpar standards. I for one still expect quality when I pay for quality.
    Last edited by Lomak; 2013-01-04 at 07:18 PM.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Man, this is why I'm glad I stopped playing Blizzard games. It seems like nothing but shit people are drawn to them anymore. Oh well, one more person to toss into the ignore pile.
    Actually he has a point. The post he quoted from you describes exactly what playing Diablo 3 is like, yet it was framed to sound like Diablo 2. You stated (about D2) that "knowing most stuff you'd get would be crap made getting stuff you could really use and wanted all the sweeter." Sure sounds like D3...

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    To say that "it's just the nature of games now" to be released missing Integral content and that THAT somehow justifies releasing it is wrong. Maybe you have lower expectations than I do, but when a game (specifically Diablo) is released without a way to fight friends whatsoever THAT is an incomplete diablo experience. It is really that simple.
    Diablo doesn't have to include PvP. Your opinion of that is irrelevant. Your opinions aren't facts. It's really that simple.

    It's funny how you can tell someone they have every right to be upset, displeased, to not particpate or pay for something...but dear lord don't tell them they can't embellish or make up false existences lest they fly off the handle in anger. So hilarious how every gamer with an opinion is looking for a fight when they are unhappy.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Diablo doesn't have to include PvP. Your opinion of that is irrelevant. Your opinions aren't facts. It's really that simple.

    It's funny how you can tell someone they have every right to be upset, displeased, to not particpate or pay for something...but dear lord don't tell them they can't embellish or make up false existences lest they fly off the handle in anger. So hilarious how every gamer with an opinion is looking for a fight when they are unhappy.
    Just another naive person who's loyalty to a brand (blizzard) blinds them to even the most obvious failings. Keep floundering around trying desperately to make excuses for them. If you think the post of mine you quoted is an example of someone "flying off the handle in anger" then you need a reality check.

    Ironic that you say others are looking for a fight when it is you that are trying to argue the semantics over what classifies as "finished and unfinished'. Even more so considering the subject is D3 and the quality of product it was at release.

    GG.
    Last edited by Lomak; 2013-01-04 at 08:23 PM.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    Just another naive person who's loyalty to a brand (blizzard) blinds them to even the most obvious failings. Keep floundering around trying desperately to make excuses for them.
    Keep floundering around with your desperate assumptions. You clearly don't know anything about me. In fact, posting what you did just shows that you are pretty ignorant about my opinions about anything in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    If you think the post of mine you quoted is an example of someone "flying off the handle in anger" then you need a reality check.
    Or maybe you need anger management? I'm not trying to infuriate you. Just take a step back and breathe, it will be ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    Ironic that you say others are looking for a fight when it is you that are trying to argue the semantics over what classifies as "finished and unfinished'. Even more so considering the subject is D3 and the quality of product it was at release.
    Once again, trying to spin an every increasing circle that calling out arguing semantics, is arguing semantics. What's next? Should I say that you are arguing semantics, by calling something semantics, which is calling something semantics? We could go on forever with that idotic logic.

    The quality of the game has no impact on how it is being portrayed incorrectly and the fact that people are expressing their opinions. It's funny that you have to keep reasserting yours, while trying to label me as a valiant defender of Blizzard, when I've given almost no opinion on the actual game myself.

  12. #272
    I'm done responding to someone who's idea of a conversation means devolving into an adolescent "u mad bro" meme.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    I'm done responding to someone who's idea of a conversation means devolving into an adolescent "u mad bro" meme.
    I'm not sure how you are imagining a conversation that isn't happening, but it will be fine if we cease it all the same. You were taking it in circles anyways. *shrug*

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    It's a fact but just like global warming and evolution you can call it an opinion if it makes you feel better. It's impossible to have an adult conversation because you refuse to acknowledge facts and would rather plug your ears in ignorance. So no we can't have an adult conversation. Until you acknowledge D3 was and is unfinished.
    It's an opinion but just like your beliefs you can call it a fact if it makes you feel better. It's impossible to have an adult conversation because you refuse to acknowledge that your opinions are not facts and would rather plug your ears in ignorance. So no we can't have an adult conversation. Until you acknowledge D3 is no more unfinished than any other game.

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  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Diablo doesn't have to include PvP. Your opinion of that is irrelevant. Your opinions aren't facts. It's really that simple.

    It's funny how you can tell someone they have every right to be upset, displeased, to not particpate or pay for something...but dear lord don't tell them they can't embellish or make up false existences lest they fly off the handle in anger. So hilarious how every gamer with an opinion is looking for a fight when they are unhappy.
    Yes it does, otherwise they missold the game to a large portion of people.

    I'm sure they want that kinda hassle.
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  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Diablo doesn't have to include PvP. Your opinion of that is irrelevant. Your opinions aren't facts. It's really that simple.
    Just based on the fact that Blizz promised PvP to be there at launch D3 does have to include PvP. The sad part is that when they were talking about it they stated it will be just for fun nothing extra and now it looks like it will take them more than 9-10 months to deliver even less than the nothing extra they promised.

    To sum it up: It will be late, but at least it will be worse than advertised.

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  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Just based on the fact that Blizz promised PvP to be there at launch D3 does have to include PvP. The sad part is that when they were talking about it they stated it will be just for fun nothing extra and now it looks like it will take them more than 9-10 months to deliver even less than the nothing extra they promised.

    To sum it up: It will be late, but at least it will be worse than advertised.
    I have no memory of them promising there would be PvP at launch. I remember that they talked about how they wanted there to be PvP in Diablo 3 during Blizzcons, and a few months before launch they said "sorry, looks like PvP will be not be ready when the game launches".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways, in the snow, barefoot. That made being in school all the better. Now you kids use these fancy automobiles and get there almost instantly. What's the point of school when you can just drive there?

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzalix View Post
    I have no memory of them promising there would be PvP at launch. I remember that they talked about how they wanted there to be PvP in Diablo 3 during Blizzcons, and a few months before launch they said "sorry, looks like PvP will be not be ready when the game launches".
    Something like that ... except the "few months before launch" was actually a few days. They announced not releasing PvP on 9th march and game launched 15th march.

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  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You are acting like I'm defending their choice to not include PvP...it actually has nothing to do with this specific issue.
    I was simply pointing out that they removed PvP prior to launch and as such it's not really up for debate if the game is complete or not, removing a feature just a week before launch means it's not complete until said feature is put back in, it's simply that black and white.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    It's not limited to MMOs, this is just the nature of games now. It's fine if you want to be upset about it, if it makes you want to stop playing, but the talking about games as finished/unfinished is silly.
    It's not the nature of games to have major features removed shortly before launch to be patched in at some undisclosed time.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2013-01-05 at 04:25 AM.
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  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasiru View Post
    Actually he has a point. The post he quoted from you describes exactly what playing Diablo 3 is like, yet it was framed to sound like Diablo 2. You stated (about D2) that "knowing most stuff you'd get would be crap made getting stuff you could really use and wanted all the sweeter." Sure sounds like D3...
    I got bored about halfway through Nightmare. Up to that point, I can list the number of upgrades and truly useful items I found on one hand. Literally everything else was bought off the AH. Maybe that's fixed now, but frankly I don't care. D3 is shit and will always be shit due to poor decisions on Blizzard's part.
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