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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    May be the case, but I do not see why Diablo 3 should define the rest of Blizzard's games when it is in fact breaking the trend of their previous releases. Not to mention that I was referring to all their other games except for Diablo 3, when making that statement.
    well that's debatable. What trend are we talking about here? Their last quality release was starcraft 2 imho and even that game has significant short comings. Since Battlenet 2.0 it's been about the market, and demographics and how much they can sell. In part because their always designing sequels, never new games. Never new stuff not based on previous feedback or iterations. Their constantly being led around to make decisions.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    well that's debatable. What trend are we talking about here? Their last quality release was starcraft 2 imho and even that game has significant short comings. Since Battlenet 2.0 it's been about the market, and demographics and how much they can sell. In part because their always designing sequels, never new games. Never new stuff not based on previous feedback or iterations. Their constantly being led around to make decisions.
    I do not think there is much up for debate that Battle.Net 2.0 is a downgrade in terms of community building when compared to Battle.Net 1.0. That's the major issue with StarCraft 2, which Blizzard have at least acknowledged and are planning on fixing in HotS (I am so glad that the clan system from WC 3 is coming back). It's about freaking time, too, since I like SC 2 the most of all their current games.

    Technically, I do not disagree with your statement, but I still do, simply because that I consider Battle.Net 2.0 to be the main source of this problem and not the game design itself. While they both go hand in hand, my point is that the way the gameplay in Diablo 3 is designed makes the game not have that replayability that Diablo 2 had.

    Just to put it into perspective, if Diablo 2 would have been released with Battle.Net 2.0, it would pretty much have the same shortcomings as StarCraft 2, but the game still would have more replayability than Diablo 3 simply because of its item design, for instance. It's more in terms of where main issues come from rather than that there are problems to adress.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-01-15 at 10:58 PM.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    I do not think there is much up for debate that Battle.Net 2.0 is a downgrade in terms of community building when compared to Battle.Net 1.0. That's the major issue with StarCraft 2, which Blizzard have at least acknowledged and are planning on fixing in HotS (I am so glad that the clan system from WC 3 is coming back). It's about freaking time, too, since I like SC 2 the most of all their current games.

    Technically, I do not disagree with your statement, but I still do, simply because that I consider Battle.Net 2.0 to be the main source of this problem and not the game design itself. While they both go hand in hand, my point is that the way the gameplay in Diablo 3 is designed makes the game not have that replayability that Diablo 2 had.

    Just to put it into perspective, if Diablo 2 would have been released with Battle.Net 2.0, it would pretty much have the same shortcomings as StarCraft 2, but the game still would have more replayability than Diablo 3 simply because of its item design, for instance. It's more in terms of where main issues come from rather than that there are problems to adress.
    Actually the reality is they haven't done a damn thing to address player concerns in HoTS. You have to look at what made sc and sc:bw a success. It wasn't the competitive scene. It was NR 20 FASTEST MAP POSSIBLE. Blizzard has pushed the competitive scene so much and to be honest it doesn't look like it's coming back. By the same token they haven't acknowledged what made d2:lod a success and in fact ignore it. They would rather tell the community of players that their memories were rose colored. All of this is done on the basis of chasing dollar bills. Well it's going to backfire. It's backfired in sc2 where it isn't even a top 10 game in korea. It's also backfired in d3.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Actually the reality is they haven't done a damn thing to address player concerns in HoTS. You have to look at what made sc and sc:bw a success. It wasn't the competitive scene. It was NR 20 FASTEST MAP POSSIBLE. Blizzard has pushed the competitive scene so much and to be honest it doesn't look like it's coming back. By the same token they haven't acknowledged what made d2:lod a success and in fact ignore it. They would rather tell the community of players that their memories were rose colored. All of this is done on the basis of chasing dollar bills. Well it's going to backfire. It's backfired in sc2 where it isn't even a top 10 game in korea. It's also backfired in d3.
    Do you know ANY other PC only games that sold 6 million (SC2) and 12 million (Diablo3) copies in the last 8 years ... except heuh ...WoW ...

    No you don't. Stop pretending these games are not massively played: BNet has 1 million concurrent players all the time and WoW is not even counted.

    Concurrent means playing at the same time btw.

    I think these numbers dwarf your Blizzard hate right out of the window already.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Do you know ANY other PC only games that sold 6 million (SC2) and 12 million (Diablo3) copies in the last 8 years ... except heuh ...WoW ...
    Sims, Sims 2, Half Life 2, Battlefield 2...
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  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 01:25 PM ----------

    [/COLOR]

    A lot of people are not happy with the current state of the game (me included) and I frankly do not see how Blizzard are gaining any costumers with Diablo 3 when even hardcore players are starting to drop out this early. The community is pretty much non-existent, since there is really nothing in the game that can build one as in previous Blizzard titles.

    You mention StarCraft 2 having lesser games played, but at least that game has a community, and with Heart of the Swarm soon coming out that will adress some of the issues in regards to that, I do not think this is going to last.

    Even if there may be a ton of casual players in Diablo 3 right as we speak, if they do not invest themselves in the community, there is simply no gameplay left for me, as I see it. Blizzard games are only as good as the community it creates and right now, I do not see anything that glues the playerbase together in a meaningful way.
    No doubt there are masses of players in D3 as the in game new public group forming of 650+ per minute is impressive after 8 months. The same can be said about some tracking tools like Xfire and Raptr. If you have more than 50% of these tools' player numbers compared to WoW, you are a pretty big game with a lot of players.

    Community? You don't seem to realise a community is not really needed for a guy logging in 30 minutes a day to do some monster smashing in a public group (formed in ... 1(!) second) OR play with a real life friend in co op play OR just have solo fun.

    Diablo3 is an on line pure gear and level grind: simple, casual fun with PERSONAL Challenges you set out for yourself.

    No idiots running around yelling "gearscore or reputations needed or learn to play noob". Challenges you even adapt to your gear or time or player handicap AND with long term goals in both gear - levels - and God forbid - a player driven real price economy.

    You know ... i do not need others to finish anything in this on line game. Sure I can play with them IF I want that, but Diablo 3 offers me long term play on MY terms and MY challenge modes.

    Something a lot of people love to do just that.

    And it shows, both in huge player numbers in new public groups AND tracking tools.

    No surprises for me, because while some few still complain about D3 ... A lot of others simply play the game. I can see that every time I log in and push a "public quest" button and join a group in ... 1 second in whatever content I play.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 02:38 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Sims, Sims 2, Half Life 2, Battlefield 2...
    PC only games without an expansion.

    Nothing comes even close to Diablo 3.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    No idiots running around yelling "gearscore or reputations needed or learn to play noob".
    I can taste the bitterness.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    PC only games without an expansion.

    Nothing comes even close to Diablo 3.
    That was PC games without expansions...
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  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I can taste the bitterness.



    That was PC games without expansions...
    The Sims ? Rofl .. and the other 2 did not even come close to D3 numbers on PC.

    Yeah, you are right about that bitterness. You see a LOT of people don't want to play the obeying NPC for a 17 year old no lifer who shouts commands in SS Nazi mode to kill some dragon whelps ...

    It is one of the very strong points of D3.

    On line, casual, progression for anyone within their personal limits (be that time, capacity, capability).

    I don't care if you don't agree: I see the success of this game every time I log in and find me a quest group in 1 second.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-16 at 01:57 AM.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The Sims ? Rofl .. and the other 2 did not even come close to D3 numbers.

    Yeah, you are right about that bitterness. You see a LOT of people don't want to play the obeying NPC for a 17 year old no lifer who shouts commands in SS Nazi mode to kill of some dragon whelps ...

    It is one of the very strong points of D3.

    On line, casual, progression for anyone within their personal limits (be that time, capacity, capability).

    I don't care if you don't agree: I see the succes of this game every time I log in.
    I'm just fascinated how you can defend this game to the point where you don't make sense anymore like really like I can't even fathom how ridiculous your replies are =/

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    I'm just fascinated how you can defend this game to the point where you don't make sense anymore like really like I can't even fathom how ridiculous your replies are =/
    Well let's see:

    1. You log in on Diablo 3 and find a public group to do any quest line in ... 1 second.
    2. You don't need reputation or gear requirements, you adapt the difficulty to your own time/capacity/gear.
    3. On Xfire, Diablo3 is at 60% WoW player numbers. Mostly in top 5 or 6th most played game.

    So i am pretty sure masses of players are interested in playing it.

    You simply think that the same few dudes that post silly trash talk on silly forums represent anything.

    They don't. WoW proved that hate doesn't mean anything for 10 million players for YEARS.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 03:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 01:25 PM ----------

    [/COLOR]

    A lot of people are not happy with the current state of the game (me included) and I frankly do not see how Blizzard are gaining any costumers with Diablo 3 when even hardcore players are starting to drop out this early. The community is pretty much non-existent, since there is really nothing in the game that can build one as in previous Blizzard titles.

    You mention StarCraft 2 having lesser games played, but at least that game has a community, and with Heart of the Swarm soon coming out that will adress some of the issues in regards to that, I do not think this is going to last.

    Even if there may be a ton of casual players in Diablo 3 right as we speak, if they do not invest themselves in the community, there is simply no gameplay left for me, as I see it. Blizzard games are only as good as the community it creates and right now, I do not see anything that glues the playerbase together in a meaningful way.
    No doubt there are masses of players in D3 as the in game new public group forming of 650+ per minute is impressive after 8 months. The same can be said about some tracking tools like Xfire and Raptr. If you have more than 50% of these tools' player numbers compared to WoW, you are a pretty big game with a lot of players.

    Community? You don't seem to realise a community is not really needed for a guy logging in 30 minutes a day to do some monster smashing in a public group (formed in ... 1(!) second) OR play with a real life friend in co op play OR just have solo fun.

    Diablo3 is an on line pure gear and level grind: simple, casual fun with PERSONAL Challenges you set out for yourself.

    No idiots running around yelling "gearscore or reputations needed or learn to play noob". Challenges you even adapt to your gear or time or player handicap AND with long term goals in both gear - levels - and God forbid - a player driven real price economy.

    You know ... i do not need others to finish anything in this on line game. Sure I can play with them IF I want that, but Diablo 3 offers me long term play on MY terms and MY challenge modes.

    Something a lot of people love to do just that.

    And it shows, both in huge player numbers in new public groups AND tracking tools.

    No surprises for me, because while some few still complain about D3 ... A lot of others simply play the game. I can see that every time I log in and push a "public quest" button and join a group in ... 1 second in whatever content I play.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Well let's see:

    1. You log in on Diablo 3 and find a public group to do any quest line in ... 1 second.
    2. You don't need reputation or gear requirements, you adapt the difficulty to your own time/capacity/gear.
    3. On Xfire, Diablo3 is at 60% WoW player numbers. Mostly in top 5 or 6th most played game.

    So i am pretty sure masses of players are interested in playing it.

    You simply think that the same few dudes that post silly trash talk on silly forums represent anything.

    They don't. WoW proved that hate doesn't mean anything for 10 million players for YEARS.
    Why am I bothering to reply to you WHY like g-dammit NOBODY USES XFIRE okay like It's been long DONE you can't just randomly say X many uses this when the source itself ISN'T VIABLE

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Why am I bothering to reply to you WHY like g-dammit NOBODY USES XFIRE okay like It's been long DONE you can't just randomly say X many uses this when the source itself ISN'T VIABLE
    Ok then explain to me why 650 EU NEW public grouped games are being formed on a minute per minute basis ... 8 months after launch and ... 3 months after the last patch...

    As you know that figure only includes NEW groups being formed. The full public groups, the solo games, the private games are not counted in that number.

    It explains why any player is getting into a new group in ... 1 second.

    That's in game stats if you don't trust the figures of Raptr or Xfire.

    You lost on all accounts already. If that many players (half of WoW numbers) still play this game after 8 months ... does not wake you up, nothing will really ...
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-16 at 02:16 AM.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The Sims ? Rofl .. and the other 2 did not even come close to D3 numbers on PC.
    You asked for PC games that sold more...that means you can't all of the sudden disregard the best selling PC games of all times.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Yeah, you are right about that bitterness. You see a LOT of people don't want to play the obeying NPC for a 17 year old no lifer who shouts commands in SS Nazi mode to kill some dragon whelps ...
    Can you point on the doll where the bad man touched you.
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  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    You asked for PC games that sold more...that means you can't all of the sudden disregard the best selling PC game....
    For your information ...

    Half Life2 sold 6.5 million copies in 4 years time 2004 - 2008.

    Diablo 3 sold 10 million copies from May 15 to June 30 2012.

    So no need to ignore facts. The same facts show D3 is also being played massively on the few tracking tools we have like Raptr and Xfire.

    So where does that lead the infamous unhappy forum posters ?

    To trash talking players of this nice game.

    As always. Go gather more friends: you are in dire need compared to the millions still playing D3 btw.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Half Life2 sold 6.5 million copies in 4 years time 2004 - 2008.
    As of February 9, 2011, Half-Life 2 has sold over 12 million copies.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Diablo 3 sold 10 million copies from May 15 to June 30 2012.
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    So no need to ignore facts. The same facts show D3 is also being played massively on the few tracking tools we have like Raptr and Xfire.
    Has literally nothing to do with game sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    As always. Go gather more friends: you are in dire need compared to the millions still playing D3 btw.
    I do just fine in a game with more than 500k players playing the same game on the same server, and by that I don't mean split up in to 4 player games.
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  16. #436
    The above mentioned total sales of Half Life 2 are irrelevant as it was obtained through

    - the basic box AND 3 seperately sold expansion packs : Episode 1 - Episode 2 - Episode 3 ...

    - and all these seperate sold games over 8(!) years ... combined were not into the discussion with you above.

    Diablo3 sold 10 million in 6 weeks and is still gathering sales on a monthly basis without an expansion pack in sight.

    The same applies for SC2 with 6 million sales without seperately sold expansions ...

    We will leave the Sims with multi cross platforms and a zillion expansions out of the discussion.

    So OR you are ignorant OR simply trolling a perfectly good analysis about how BIG these Blizzard successes are to counter Mr "I hate Blizzard" guy above.

    Apparently he is your partner in hate. Just pointed out that these Blizzard games are HUGE success sales AND being played massively for months or years after publication, unseen in this PC industry.




    I said PC games only and without seperate sold expansions and you earlier said: they are... You were not even close.

    So the next time: do not cut and paste half lines in perfectly built up posts.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-16 at 09:38 AM.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    As of February 9, 2011, Half-Life 2 has sold over 12 million copies.



    Irrelevant.



    Has literally nothing to do with game sales.



    I do just fine in a game with more than 500k players playing the same game on the same server, and by that I don't mean split up in to 4 player games.
    At this point in time any arguement put forth to him is crudely countered with "But you can form a game within... 1 second!"

    Diablo 3 sales are irrelevant due to the fact alot of it sold on the hype of D2, i know i bought it because of that.

    Literally nobody i know still plays Diablo 3, or has even had it installed anytime in the past 4 months and that's all i care about to be honest, not the amount of bots running, paragon 100's or useless public games.

    Diablo 3 could have been so much more, it failed miserably in many ways and even this latest patch incoming doesn't look like it addresses much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potboza View Post
    I created a black human male called "Pedopriest" and ran him to SW.
    I started asking where the schools were.
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    Yeah.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolsteak View Post
    At this point in time any arguement put forth to him is crudely countered with "But you can form a game within... 1 second!"

    Diablo 3 sales are irrelevant due to the fact alot of it sold on the hype of D2, i know i bought it because of that.

    Literally nobody i know still plays Diablo 3, or has even had it installed anytime in the past 4 months and that's all i care about to be honest, not the amount of bots running, paragon 100's or useless public games.

    Diablo 3 could have been so much more, it failed miserably in many ways and even this latest patch incoming doesn't look like it addresses much.
    Anecdotal evidence of yours is countered by sampled tracking tools like Xfire, Raptr AND in game new groups being formed. Diablo 3 player numbers is 60% of WoW players on this tacking tool...

    If 650 new EU groups are formed every minute on your server in SC mode only, that shows many many thousands are on line AT the same time in prime time. As full groups or solo play or private games are not even shown.

    Do a test: sell just ONE Emerald Star in the game for a few Gold less than the advertised price of around 1.1 million gold and it is sold in seconds...

    Besides: I have hard evidence.

    In the beginning of June - a few weeks after launch - and after patch 1.03 (where it was introduced) the new forming group number stood at 1800 EU max in prime time ...Now 8 months later it stands at 650 EU.

    Having a confirmed in game CONCURRENT retention rate of 35% for an 8 month old game (vs its ... LAUNCHING weeks) you can play casual (no attunements required) is pretty high.

    Since the end of June saw already 10 million copies sold and another few were added since then (% based on VgChartz after June), it is easy to see this game is casually but daily being played by at least 3 million players worldwide. That tracked number of newly created grouping games is extremely high for ... a NON MMORPG even, since ... you don't even need to play daily ...to stay attuned.

    Oddly that in game tracked number of new groups being formed quite matches the ratio of daily WoW Xfire players vs daily D3 Xfire players.

    So how much more proof do you want ?
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-16 at 11:49 AM.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Actually the reality is they haven't done a damn thing to address player concerns in HoTS. You have to look at what made sc and sc:bw a success. It wasn't the competitive scene. It was NR 20 FASTEST MAP POSSIBLE. Blizzard has pushed the competitive scene so much and to be honest it doesn't look like it's coming back. By the same token they haven't acknowledged what made d2:lod a success and in fact ignore it. They would rather tell the community of players that their memories were rose colored. All of this is done on the basis of chasing dollar bills. Well it's going to backfire. It's backfired in sc2 where it isn't even a top 10 game in korea. It's also backfired in d3.
    And yet no developer/publisher turns to forums for this kind of insight. I mean dude, you have it down to a tee...right here the alchemical formula for a game to succeed.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post
    And yet no developer/publisher turns to forums for this kind of insight. I mean dude, you have it down to a tee...right here the alchemical formula for a game to succeed.
    But that's what happened man. UMS maps and custom games were the shit in sc:bw. I grew up playing NR 20 FASTEST MAP and it was widely popular. The competitive scene was fed by this and only became strong as a result of this. Instead of making the custom and ums map scene the focus of the game they did the opposite thing. They made the competitive aspect the focus. The competitive aspect only appeals to a very few players. It's frustrating and not very friendly. They thought tournaments and a competitive scene would bring them money because they consider E sports a cash cow so they tailored the game for that. Not everybody wants in the Esports arena though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 01:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Why am I bothering to reply to you WHY like g-dammit NOBODY USES XFIRE okay like It's been long DONE you can't just randomly say X many uses this when the source itself ISN'T VIABLE
    Oddly enough when several months ago when some forum posters here tried to use XFIRE as proof the d3 was tanking, benbos fought to hell and back to prove xfire was a bad measure. It's just not worth replying to him. Much better to put him on ignore, and talk about him as if he isn't there. As if one was dealing with a small child. It's best not to give them attention.

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