How I would fix Hunter ability bloat

[Deleted]

and yet again , it seems your post are only PVE focussing.

Camo is SO usefull in PvP why remove it ?

[Lovestar]

Get rid of Widow Venom? Seriously? This is a must have PvP ability. Same with the other person that recommended cutting Tranq shot.

It's like some of you have never played a Hunter correctly in PvP before.

Did you read their post? They said cut Widow Venom as a separate button and have Serp Sting apply it.

[Deleted]

Loving the amount of buttons. Can be a bit overwhelming for BM though, I realise that. Making Readiness a talent/something for SV and MM only and balancing accordingly would go a long way I think. Maybe removing the focus cost on AMoC as well, or at least reducing it.

[Deleted]

The only thing I can really agree on is merging widow/serpent. I like having lots of buttons to do it feel like the class actually need some practise to play well.

[eschatological]

I wish Camo had more of a PvE utility - like the fading out worked more like a rogue cloak or something. I hate using Deterrence because it stops my DPS.

[Deleted]

The only thing I can really agree on is merging widow/serpent. I like having lots of buttons to do it feel like the class actually need some practise to play well.

this is something that should of been done ages ago.

[Nemesis003]

its not that hunters have too many its that we simply have more then every other class we CONSTANTLY use... mages have less then half a dozen to DPS effectivly and do more damage.

i do not mind working for my DPS, what i hate is working harder then a mage and the mage still doing 20+k more in the same gear.

[Cyi]

Interesting ideas. Here's what I'd like to happen:

1- Merge Focus Fire and Bestial Wrath. Give the pet a flat haste boost during Bestial Wrath to compensate for the Frenzy stacks removed by Focus Fire.

2- Change Readiness to affect only defensive and utility abilities. Resetting offensive cooldowns only makes openers ridiculously complex.

3- Merge Widow Venom and Serpent Sting. It's not like either will stick to the target after a healer purgers them.

4- Keep aspects as they are. Aspect of the Fox was the troublesome one and now it's gone. Let us all rejoice and dance on its grave.

5- Camouflage: it's a neat toy, no need to cut it. Merge the glyph with the actual ability and give us full stealth for five seconds after standing still for five seconds, kind of like the old Sniper Training. Once the 5 seconds of stealth run out, return to the normal Camo behavior until standing still again.

6- Significantly increase the cooldown on Dire Beast and Fervor. Increase their effect to match so they are good 3-minute offensive cooldowns. For example: in Fervor's case, make it 50 focus now, plus double baseline focus regen for X seconds.

7- Change Glaive Toss. Either increase the cooldown (so it's not a rotational ability) and add a debuff to the target that makes it take extra damage from your attacks for X seconds; or remove the cooldown and change its damage so it's not a DPS gain to be used in single-target (but fine in 2+ target situations), and have it replace Multi-Shot. Trying to make the Tier 90 good for both single- and multi-target was its undoing.

8- Make Barrage a passive that gives you a chance on hit with every damaging shot (and Kill Command) to trigger short burst of fire with a similar effect to the current ability, with damage modified as required. Alternatively, make it an instant ability that may be used only after a certain proc.

9- Merge Tranquilizing Shot with the signature shots with a 15-second internal cooldown. Yeah, passive dispelling. I know. Not too keen on this particular idea, but a separate focus-costing button for dispelling stuff has to go.

10- Remove Concussive Shot. Yeeees, PvPers will want to have my guts for entrées for suggesting that, but now we can move and fire without penalty, and we already have traps for slowing enemies down. Being able to essentially keep someone snared forever is not necessary anymore. Alternatively, give it a hefty (say, 30+ second) cooldown and extend the snare duration to 8 seconds. Maybe make it affect an area around the target, who knows?

This went longer than I expected. Anyway, damage numbers would have to be severely tweaked so they remain similar to what they are right now. Yes, rotational abilities will have to do more damage to compensate for it and I'm fine with that.

I loved it all right up until #10. I don't PvP very often, but I find myself using Concussive shot a lot out and about and also now in the Brawlers guild. I would seriously be sad if that talent changed.

[Kjalar]

If some abilities will be removed, Blizzard absolutely has to add the complexity to the hunter playstile in some other way, because right now in PvE playing a hunter well (not at world top 10 level, but well enough to kill HCs) already takes very little effort and the playstyle feels rather shallow overall.

[Bonkbonk100]

I come to this thread, expecting good ideas, but instead I see people suggesting to remove things like Camouflage, Offensive dispelling, Rapid Fire and make Readiness less useful? What?

Let's go make a thread on the Warlock forum, suggesting to remove GoS, Chaos bolt, Dark Bargain etc. See how well that goes.

[Nemesis003]

If some abilities will be removed, Blizzard absolutely has to add the complexity to the hunter playstile in some other way, because right now in PvE playing a hunter well (not at world top 10 level, but well enough to kill HCs) already takes very little effort and the playstyle feels rather shallow overall.

you should try playing anything else in the game and you would see how much easier everything else is to play by comparison, thats the sad thing.

[Cyph3r]

I come to this thread, expecting good ideas, but instead I see people suggesting to remove things like Camouflage, Offensive dispelling, Rapid Fire and make Readiness less useful? What?

Let's go make a thread on the Warlock forum, suggesting to remove GoS, Chaos bolt, Dark Bargain etc. See how well that goes.

And how many buttons does a mage or a warlock have to hit rotationally? What does their opening look like?

I've already conceded I was wrong about camo. I don't use it much, but clearly a lot of people really like this ability. And readiness was the single biggest mistake the developers made with Hunter design in mists. It takes an already complex rotation and cranks that complexity up to 11 for openers. Ask 10 Hunters what the proper opening order is and you'll get 10 different answers.

[Deleted]

I loved it all right up until #10. I don't PvP very often, but I find myself using Concussive shot a lot out and about and also now in the Brawlers guild. I would seriously be sad if that talent changed.

After reading all these suggestions, i just realised the amount of clueless people playing this class..... If you want to remove somethings dont forget about the implications to pvp.. I can tell these kind of people just play pve only...... Some suggestions like the merging abilities are good while some like concussive shot removal is dumb and i dont want to go on and on.. But revise these ideas or hunters will be shitty for pvp.. reworking readiness idea is just a joke on its own ..............

[Mirishka]

I'm glad you don't work for Blizzard. I'd reroll.

[Deleted]

I don't see why Dire Beast and Fervor can't be made into procs or passive effects. Fervor in it's current state as a proc would suck, you don't want it to proc when you are nearly capped on focus already. But Fervor giving passive energy regen or possibly a proc that gives 2 energy per second for a few seconds wouldn't sound too bad.

The Imp summoning mechanic of Warlocks would work well for Dire Beast I recon. Basically when the internal cooldown is up, you get a buff. That buff causes your next spell to summon the Imp. Imps serve nearly the same purpose as Dire Beast, they deal some damage and regenerate demonic fury.

Other than that and the Widow Venom rolled into Serpent Sting suggestion I don't really mind. It just bugs the hell out of me that was have a talent tier with 3 abilities which server the same purpose but one is passive, one is on a global cooldown and the other isn't. To be honest I don't find Dire Beast a fun ability to use anyway.

[Keren]

I'd prefered less qq about his proposal than actual more opinions about what could be changed! Every dumb ass can write what he dont like, but to say what you like and what could be done to improve the current situation would require a minute of brain-using... Scarely how many just come into the thread with nothing to add. What do you think a thread is for?!

@ topic:
readiness: I would be fine if it nly resets specific talents. And in this way I would exclude all direct damaging abilities exceptional the focus gain talents.
widow venom / SS: dont need to talk about, just do it pls!
Conc S., Camo, Tranq are must have for pvp.
As much as I like stampede, its a rather no brain afk talent and should be entirely connected with bestial wrath and bm only. Rapid Fire is the Aim Shot spam button i really like for MM. SV should just get a unique ability for itself, like becoming more vulnerable to dots damage of hunters (SS and Explosive). That would provide an acutal timeable burst for SV and fit into the scheme...


However, like the start rotation, ask 10 people and everyone would have another idea how he think about what a hunter would have to be...

[Tokas]

Camouflage removed?? I'd want to hang myself.
Readiness resetting only defensive abilities is a nice idea, and to compensate our dps boost abilities could be stronger, like Rapid Fire, does anyone like it? I barely even notice anything changed when I use it.
Also Dire Beast and the whole tree with Crows in it should be reworked (IMO) as well, those are in between rotational and cooldown abilities, which is weird.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 07:59 PM ----------

If some abilities will be removed, Blizzard absolutely has to add the complexity to the hunter playstile in some other way, because right now in PvE playing a hunter well (not at world top 10 level, but well enough to kill HCs) already takes very little effort and the playstyle feels rather shallow overall.

But ridiculous amount of buttons does not add depth, look at Demo Warlocks for example, they have 5 rotational buttons, and when they enter Demon Form those 5 (or four of those) gets changed to another abilities, in other words - they save 4 buttons, abilities change, you need to know what's what, but you don't suddenly need 4 more fingers

[Deleted]

But ridiculous amount of buttons does not add depth, look at Demo Warlocks for example, they have 5 rotational buttons, and when they enter Demon Form those 5 (or four of those) gets changed to another abilities, in other words - they save 4 buttons, abilities change, you need to know what's what, but you don't suddenly need 4 more fingers

Quickly wanted to add that those buttons that change serve almost the exact same purpose as when they aren't in demon form (PvE perspective). One is a DoT you want to keep up, and it transforms into another DoT you want to keep up. One is a filler you are constantly spamming, the other is a filler you are constantly spamming and so forth.

While they are more buttons and abilities, they really aren't.

[Deleted]

And how many buttons does a mage or a warlock have to hit rotationally? What does their opening look like?

I've already conceded I was wrong about camo. I don't use it much, but clearly a lot of people really like this ability. And readiness was the single biggest mistake the developers made with Hunter design in mists. It takes an already complex rotation and cranks that complexity up to 11 for openers. Ask 10 Hunters what the proper opening order is and you'll get 10 different answers.

Why does the amount of buttons mages or warlocks have matter to us? You pick the class you wanna play and then you can ignore how the other classes are played more or less, it doesn't effect us.



On the topic as a whole, at the start of MoP I thought there were a lot of buttons, but after doing HCs and challenged modes and raids and a week or two after I hit 90 and it doesn't bother me at all, so you just gotta get used to it, re-learn your class and it won't be a issue really. I like how hunters play right now and I like their different abilities. About readiness, I love it, gives you a lot higher dps if you use it correctly, and it actually shows what hunter know how the boss and their own CD's work together.

[Deleted]

I don't see how removing or changing situational abilities like tranq & distracting shot, camouflage or widow venom can change the hassle with the sheer amount of ability a hunter has to use during regular play. You have about 25 things to bind (give or take, depending on what talents & specc you choose) - i don't see where's the problem with that exactly. It's not like use all those abilities frequently, you could even click ~ 10 of them and still be fine. Using five regular binds with two modifiers is not much to ask for to be honest if you take a look at other classes. What's annoying is the amount of (short time) cooldowns you have to manage, nothing else. That's something Blizzard can work on and implement more passive abilities/talents.

But ridiculous amount of buttons does not add depth, look at Demo Warlocks for example, they have 5 rotational buttons, and when they enter Demon Form those 5 (or four of those) gets changed to another abilities, in other words - they save 4 buttons, abilities change, you need to know what's what, but you don't suddenly need 4 more fingers

If you break it down it's focus generator, signature shot and focus dump for hunters with proccs here, renewing stuff there and hitting cooldowns. Unless you need to change your track demon to track undead to track human three times a minute