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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Everywhere has racism, though I must say the only place I have every experienced racism has been in America.
    I don't quite know what you mean by this. Are you someone from a different ethnicity that has lived in many nations and only experienced racism in the us, or have you only observed racism in the US?

  2. #22
    Brewmaster The Riddler's Avatar
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    I rather like being what you consider to be amoral
    You jest - perhaps - but such an attitude is in fact a problem and growing. The solution to health care, violence, education, and everything else lies in the creation, support, and sustaining of society of moral individuals. Don't see that happening in our current culture. Quite the opposite, really.

    Racism...
    Anyone who says "America has a racism problem" in one breath, and implies other nations do NOT in the other is either lying or hopelessly ignorant. Without trying to minimize what progress still needs to happen, America's "race" problems are a game of patty-cake compared to most other nations'.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Trollskalden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    You jest - perhaps - but such an attitude is in fact a problem and growing. The solution to health care, violence, education, and everything else lies in the creation, support, and sustaining of society of moral individuals. Don't see that happening in our current culture. Quite the opposite, really.
    How is amoral people a problem? I could understand in a criminal perspective, but since crimes have dropped a lot since the 90s I can't see that the general amoral attitude would prove to be much of a problem.

    I must also add that just having a bunch of moral people standing around isn't going to make a society better. While I'm pretty sure your vision of an utopian society isn't an Orwellian one where everyone is 100% moral and obeys everything, I still think life would be rather dull in general if amorality wasn't emphasised.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    You jest - perhaps - but such an attitude is in fact a problem and growing. The solution to health care, violence, education, and everything else lies in the creation, support, and sustaining of society of moral individuals. Don't see that happening in our current culture. Quite the opposite, really.



    Anyone who says "America has a racism problem" in one breath, and implies other nations do NOT in the other is either lying or hopelessly ignorant. Without trying to minimize what progress still needs to happen, America's "race" problems are a game of patty-cake compared to most other nations'.
    Morality is important. Yes. Churches, family, and traditional marriage are related to morality in that they're part of a particular code, but they're certainly not required to be moral. Hell, much of the bible goes directly against how I believe a good person should act and think. I don't think it's healthy to promote a fictional book written by humans as the story of our creation. It definitely shouldn't be used as the only source of knowledge of right and wrong. Remember, written by humans. I don't believe faith is a noble tool to rely on when making important decisions. I don't believe traditional marriage is natural. The idea that a two people should expect to find an everlasting relationship has created an unhealthy expectation in our society. You can be a father without being a husband. You can be a damn good one too. My cousin is a better father than any married man I've ever met and he never put a ring on any woman's finger.

    Yes, we need to be good people to have a good society. We don't need religion, faith, and traditional marriage to be good people.

  5. #25
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xandiant View Post
    I don't quite know what you mean by this. Are you someone from a different ethnicity that has lived in many nations and only experienced racism in the us, or have you only observed racism in the US?
    I'm from England. I don't have any stories of someone being racist towards me. In America I do. I know Spain has their fair share of racial issues, but I never had any there nor when in Paris. New York, I have and New Jersey I have, and North Carolina, fuck yes I have.

  6. #26
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I'm from England. I don't have any stories of someone being racist towards me. In America I do. I know Spain has their fair share of racial issues, but I never had any there nor when in Paris. New York, I have and New Jersey I have, and North Carolina, fuck yes I have.
    Your skin colour would probably be a useful info here. If you're black or white, then I see how you wouldn't have problems in Europe. If you're arab-looking, then it might be more interesting.

  7. #27
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    Your skin colour would probably be a useful info here. If you're black or white, then I see how you wouldn't have problems in Europe. If you're arab-looking, then it might be more interesting.
    I'm Black/Indian... so I look like a tan/yellow black person. Who gets mistaken for a white/black mix or (in the case of America) Dominican or Rican.

  8. #28
    Wikipedia is not a legit source. GG.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponXAnimosity View Post
    Wikipedia is not a legit source. GG.
    You do realize that Wikipedia didn't actually do the surveys or studies that show the statistics right? There are actual links to the organizations that performed the studies or gathered the statistics on the page. When people talk about wiki not being a legit source it has to do with pages that describe phenomena or laws, things that are controversial or require interpretation.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I'm Black/Indian... so I look like a tan/yellow black person. Who gets mistaken for a white/black mix or (in the case of America) Dominican or Rican.
    Afaik that's not really a target for discrimination in Europe, so that could be the reason.

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord Trollskalden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I'm Black/Indian... so I look like a tan/yellow black person. Who gets mistaken for a white/black mix or (in the case of America) Dominican or Rican.
    Europeans are mostly discriminating towards muslims, I think you'd only be a unique sight if you're Indian more than anything.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post
    You forgot to mention horrible racism issues too compared to other countries.
    Not sure how totally accurate that is. Our company is global, and I can't believe how many times I hear racist things from counterparts in other countries where it isn't improper to speak their mind on it. I think we just give it more publicity.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    It is not "the USA" that is the problem. It is the culture.

    The US culture attacks what is called "old fashioned" morality. Churches. Family. Traditional marriage. The whole ball of wax.
    Except we are the most religious first world county on earth. Sweden is much less religious, yet their crime rates are low, their health care is good, etc. Rejection of the church and Christian values has nothing to do with this.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  14. #34
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Except we are the most religious first world county on earth. Sweden is much less religious, yet their crime rates are low, their health care is good, etc. Rejection of the church and Christian values has nothing to do with this.
    If Americans would honour the Christian values I think the country would be much better overall. Do what Jesus did lol.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Except we are the most religious first world county on earth. Sweden is much less religious, yet their crime rates are low, their health care is good, etc. Rejection of the church and Christian values has nothing to do with this.
    Yet Sweden has a giant issue with Rape, but most secular countries have a much lower crime rate. So the comparison could be made that in general it is religion that is the problem.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 06:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    If Americans would honour the Christian values I think the country would be much better overall. Do what Jesus did lol.
    Excuse me, "practice what you preach" is just a colloquialism here.... also "Do as I say not as I do" is the lived by motto.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer aikoyamamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gneugen View Post
    Morality is important. Yes. Churches, family, and traditional marriage are related to morality in that they're part of a particular code, but they're certainly not required to be moral. Hell, much of the bible goes directly against how I believe a good person should act and think. I don't think it's healthy to promote a fictional book written by humans as the story of our creation. It definitely shouldn't be used as the only source of knowledge of right and wrong. Remember, written by humans. I don't believe faith is a noble tool to rely on when making important decisions. I don't believe traditional marriage is natural. The idea that a two people should expect to find an everlasting relationship has created an unhealthy expectation in our society. You can be a father without being a husband. You can be a damn good one too. My cousin is a better father than any married man I've ever met and he never put a ring on any woman's finger.

    Yes, we need to be good people to have a good society. We don't need religion, faith, and traditional marriage to be good people.
    I agree, although I'm not sure if The Riddler was so strongly implying that religion is necessary for morality/healthy society.

  17. #37
    The issue with the USA is that there's a huge difference between our inner-city population and our suburban/rural population. I'm not even talking about racial differences. It's simply like two different countries. You go into many urban communities, the economy seems 20 years behind. The education isn't nearly as good. Crime is way up. Gang violence is a major problem in lots of cities. But then if you go out to a suburb, you can find some areas that may as well be utopias. Very little crime, relatively low unemployment, strong economy, good education.

    The health care issue is a different thing. We Americans have been living unhealthy lifestyles for a long time. It's held back our life expectancy. We're still the fattest country in the world and that's a major part of it. Universal health care isn't going to make us stop being obese.

  18. #38
    Scarab Lord Trollskalden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Universal health care isn't going to make us stop being obese.
    No, but it's not going to ruin your economy when you get a heart disease.
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  19. #39
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    English Cabbies dont xD

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    I just don't get the uproar. The USA has greater issues with Education and Health Care than any of our "rivals." We have 23 times the amount of intentional homicide than Canada, though its said that the 270 million more occupants shouldn't affect this. Yet if so, then why is Canada rated 8 points better at health care?

    What's actually interesting is that Canada has guns, nearly half the population of the UK, and yet less murders than the UK.

    So why are there such great expectations for the USA when we don't lead (positively) on anything?
    One word answer: Population.

    Canada has nearly 10% of the US population. They have less people to take care of. Socialist/Communist groups are more effective when you have a smaller population to deal with. That implies that social/communist programs are also more effective.

    Canada also has a lot less gun control than the UK. Statistics show (Australia did this recently) that when you enforce more gun control that the crime rates begin to soar.
    Last edited by Linkedblade; 2012-12-28 at 12:46 AM. Reason: dat a

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