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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    No, but it's not going to ruin your economy when you get a heart disease.
    Yeah, the FDA is actually a greater health risk than guns in the United States.

  2. #42
    All this USA bashing really needs to stop, I mean seriously this has gotten past old.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joman View Post
    All this USA bashing really needs to stop, I mean seriously this has gotten past old.
    Nah criticism is what we live off of.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 07:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    Yeah, the FDA is actually a greater health risk than guns in the United States.
    I agree. We can't have raw milk or fresh grown herbs, but those pills with side effects worse than death sure are good for the health!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Nah criticism is what we live off of.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 07:50 PM ----------



    I agree. We can't have raw milk or fresh grown herbs, but those pills with side effects worse than death sure are good for the health!
    I mean, we have Monsanto. I'd love to know what their equivlant is in the UK, France, Germany, or even Sweden.

    I have a feeling I'd welcome a swap.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    No, but it's not going to ruin your economy when you get a heart disease.
    Exactly, which is why it scares me so much. Because let's take that a step further. Ok, it ruins the economy, so then what? Lots more people are homeless. Lots of people start going hungry. People can't get their medication when they need it. So in that scenario has universal health care actually saved lives or ruined them on balance?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Exactly, which is why it scares me so much. Because let's take that a step further. Ok, it ruins the economy, so then what? Lots more people are homeless. Lots of people start going hungry. People can't get their medication when they need it. So in that scenario has universal health care actually saved lives or ruined them on balance?
    Actually, lets go one further. People are homeless, desperate, and irrational at that point. Thankfully, people have been scared to death about taking personal responsibility to protect themselves, the police aren't well funded enough to detour crime, and then bam! we're living in Escape from New York.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Exactly, which is why it scares me so much. Because let's take that a step further. Ok, it ruins the economy, so then what? Lots more people are homeless. Lots of people start going hungry. People can't get their medication when they need it. So in that scenario has universal health care actually saved lives or ruined them on balance?
    The main argument of UHC is that it's an equalizer. It's not my fault if I need glasses to see correctly. It's not my fault if I caught the flu. It's not my fault if I was born with a vulnerability to a particular type of cancer. There are abuses, sure, there are possibilities for slippery slopes as always, but it's the reason why it's UHC over some kind of government-subsidized housing programs. That and giving people a job is a much better way of making sure they'll be able to put a roof above their head.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    The main argument of UHC is that it's an equalizer. It's not my fault if I need glasses to see correctly. It's not my fault if I caught the flu. It's not my fault if I was born with a vulnerability to a particular type of cancer. There are abuses, sure, there are possibilities for slippery slopes as always, but it's the reason why it's UHC over some kind of government-subsidized housing programs. That and giving people a job is a much better way of making sure they'll be able to put a roof above their head.
    Honestly I've never really looked at it like this but I do approve.

    This sort of reminds me of the argument that was had over providing health care and insurance to first responders. "Oh no, a few people might get free health care." "Well in that case fuck'em all."

  9. #49
    Don't you guys ever get tired of this conversation?
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Don't you guys ever get tired of this conversation?
    Nobody wants to discuss the Nordic countries anyway.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post
    You forgot to mention horrible racism issues too compared to other countries.
    If I recall their are a number of countries that segregate against Americans just for being Americans.

    Not gonna give names but those countries know who they are.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    It is not "the USA" that is the problem. It is the culture.

    The US culture attacks what is called "old fashioned" morality. Churches. Family. Traditional marriage. The whole ball of wax. Such things are routinely attacked, denigrated, and mocked in the culture on a daily basis. Instead, the media promotes immorality, violence, and tells people that it is "cool" to avoid responsibility. It teaches that the only important values are how skinny you are, how much money you make, and how well you can "get away with it".

    So we have a society filled with amoral, responsibility dodging, superficial d-bags who are taught to only value money and good looks. Then you constantly drip-feed them with songs, movies, and messages that tell you church, morality, and personal responsibility are "bad" - while telling them immorality, violence, and selfishness are "cool". Gee - and we're surprised that 33% of all households don't have a father anymore? That's not "America's" fault. That's the fault of media and culture rot.
    Corporations HATE HATE HATE traditional family values.

    Corporations want ONE thing from you. Your MONEY. If you want to nutshell traditional family values, they raise adults that build personal wealth. Corporations need to DESTROY traditional family values to get people to squander their talent, their wealth, go deep in debt, and make corporations rich.

    Hollywood is part of the corporate machine, and tries to instill "consumer" values into people. These values are:

    1. Live in the moment!
    2. Have fun!
    3. Buy! Buy! Buy!
    4. Be "cool"!
    5. Saving money is uncool!

    People who live by traditional values are depicted as uncool Scrooges. People who obey the corporations are depicted as rebels.

    The IDEAL citizen, to a corporation, would be James Dean. There's a guy who lives in the moment, doesn't care about money, loves fast cars, drugs, having fun, and being wild. That is a PERFECT corporate drone. These are the types of people that make corporations lots and lots of money. Corporations love James Dean.

    Corporations want to destroy marriage, religion, and moral values, because doing so ultimately makes corporations more money.

    Religion is a MASSIVE threat to corporations. People donate tons of money to churches. Churches teach people to be responsible adults. That is completely unacceptable to corporations. They relentlessly paint religion in a bad light in Hollywood to try to get people to turn away from religion. They need atheists. Atheists are much more likely to become corporate drones.
    Last edited by Grummgug; 2012-12-28 at 02:23 AM.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post

    So why are there such great expectations for the USA when we don't lead (positively) on anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    OP: Cheer for your team, or get the fuck outta the stadium....
    "America! Fuck yeah!" There's your answer, OP. There are other ways to phrase it, of course. "My country, right or wrong!" is another popular variation.

    Basically, large swathes of the American public are ignorant, uncivilized animals who can't be bothered to think about anything beyond their TVs. They are raised from birth to be obedient consumers, spend their whole lives unquestioningly consuming a veritable fire-hose of propaganda, and are never taught anything about finance, history, rhetoric, reasoning, or logic. (Increasingly, science is being cut from the curriculum as well.) Even the very concept of something like critical thinking is anathema.

    For many people, being an American is like being in a religious cult; it's all about belief in their leaders and their scripture. You can point out that their leaders are hypocritical liars, that their scripture is re-written every decade or two, and they won't care, won't even let themselves acknowledge it, because it's easier and more comforting to believe than it is to think for themselves. Any decision beyond which (identical) flavor of 1000% marked up sugar-water to purchase is beyond them.

    America wasn't always like this, it took a good century of effort to get there. But if you took a plain old enlisted soldier from either side of, say, the American Civil War, he would likely be disgusted by the willful ignorance and thoughtlessness of his descendants.


    Infracted.
    Last edited by Majad; 2012-12-28 at 04:27 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    America wasn't always like this, it took a good century of effort to get there. But if you took a plain old enlisted soldier from either side of, say, the American Civil War, he would likely be disgusted by the willful ignorance and thoughtlessness of his descendants.
    I completely agree with every assessment you made. I suppose my question then comes to be, if this is so understood why are expectations so high? As an American, I've given into the idea that anything civil will change this mess, so why hasn't everyone else?

    If we look at Europe today, which in several areas is suffering form the same level of Political corruption and Corporate betrayal, why is the USA held to a standard beyond their own?

    Don't get me wrong. I've lived in not this country. I have fond feelings towards other countries in which I have no real ties. But I don't go out of my way to try to hold them to a certain standard. I just don't get it.

  15. #55
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    It is not "the USA" that is the problem. It is the culture.

    The US culture attacks what is called "old fashioned" morality. Churches. Family. Traditional marriage. The whole ball of wax. Such things are routinely attacked, denigrated, and mocked in the culture on a daily basis. Instead, the media promotes immorality, violence, and tells people that it is "cool" to avoid responsibility. It teaches that the only important values are how skinny you are, how much money you make, and how well you can "get away with it".

    So we have a society filled with amoral, responsibility dodging, superficial d-bags who are taught to only value money and good looks. Then you constantly drip-feed them with songs, movies, and messages that tell you church, morality, and personal responsibility are "bad" - while telling them immorality, violence, and selfishness are "cool". Gee - and we're surprised that 33% of all households don't have a father anymore? That's not "America's" fault. That's the fault of media and culture rot.
    You're missing half the point, Riddler. The potential good that can come from things like strong family ties, church, and marriage are under assault from their so-called "defenders" even more than they are from those who don't participate in them. The biggest monetary supporters of "old-fashioned morality" are billionaires who have no concept of personal responsibility, of restraint, or of moral obligation. They use these things as smokescreens to get people to vote against their own interests, while the 1% loot, pillage, and burn the economy while laughing all the way to the bank.

    Churches (at least the well-funded and popular ones) are no longer quiet centers of faith for their congregations and striving to help all those in need. They're propaganda machines, engines of hatred, pushing political agendas that are irrelevant to the moral and physical well-being of their constituents, but excel at dividing the citizenry into neatly packaged and easily led chunks of voters.

    Family is of paramount important to human civilization. Yet somehow those at the forefront of the "family values" crusade are those who are least inclined to live by the precepts they so eagerly preach. Serial monogamy, closeted homosexuality, drinking, gambling, prostitution and affairs are endemic among the putative 'leaders' of the family values movement. And what do they actually do? Do they help families in need, or having a rocky time of it? Do they positively encourage their committed followers to lead by example? Hell no. They champion hatred and division. Again, a "traditional value" is used to turn people into thoughtless single-issue voters and to rob people of their empathy for their fellow human beings.

    Traditional marriage is likewise a sham. First, the modern American cultural idea of "marriage" is maybe 150 years old, and then only for the middle class. In many ways, it's an invented construct. But more to the point, if the sacredness of marriage is so overwhelmingly important, then rationally, focus should be on things like the sky-high divorce rates, trophy wives, adultery, and serial polygamy. But the only time I see advocates of "traditional marriage" talking about those things is when they're awkwardly explaining why they, personally, did them, and how they've learned and promise to not get caught again. Instead, traditional marriage is yet another stalking horse for those who like to carve up the body public into mutually hostile and easily manipulated little groups.

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    I completely agree with every assessment you made. I suppose my question then comes to be, if this is so understood why are expectations so high? As an American, I've given into the idea that anything civil will change this mess, so why hasn't everyone else?
    Basically because some of your fellow countrymen set the bar too high with their speeches of "the greatest nation America".

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    It isn't just you.

    OP: Cheer for your team, or get the fuck outta the stadium....
    You have a horribly toxic view on your country. By your logic, we'd all still be slave owners and our women would have no rights. It's unpatriotic to allow injustice to flourish

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post
    You forgot to mention horrible racism issues too compared to other countries.
    At least we have the freedom to be racist is we choose too not like the stories i see from Europe where people are arrested for making a racist gesture or comment.Also racism in the US is not as bad as people make it out to be but what can you expect when you have race baiters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

    The US is far from perfect but i can not for the life of me think of living anywhere else.
    You try and you fail,but the only true failure is when you quit trying.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    "America! Fuck yeah!" There's your answer, OP. There are other ways to phrase it, of course. "My country, right or wrong!" is another popular variation.

    Basically, large swathes of the American public are ignorant, uncivilized animals who can't be bothered to think about anything beyond their TVs. They are raised from birth to be obedient consumers, spend their whole lives unquestioningly consuming a veritable fire-hose of propaganda, and are never taught anything about finance, history, rhetoric, reasoning, or logic. (Increasingly, science is being cut from the curriculum as well.) Even the very concept of something like critical thinking is anathema.

    For many people, being an American is like being in a religious cult; it's all about belief in their leaders and their scripture. You can point out that their leaders are hypocritical liars, that their scripture is re-written every decade or two, and they won't care, won't even let themselves acknowledge it, because it's easier and more comforting to believe than it is to think for themselves. Any decision beyond which (identical) flavor of 1000% marked up sugar-water to purchase is beyond them.

    America wasn't always like this, it took a good century of effort to get there. But if you took a plain old enlisted soldier from either side of, say, the American Civil War, he would likely be disgusted by the willful ignorance and thoughtlessness of his descendants.


    Infracted.
    Why was this poster infracted?

  20. #60
    The US has, since its inception this idea of "Manifest Destiny." I believe this has culled the sense of being the best in future generations.

    It's hilarious to me that the US is waaaaay down in healthcare, but the highest expenditures. Pretty comical, but a lot of that can be ascribed to poor physical fitness and nutrition. We have to spend so much on healthcare because people don't take care of themselves. Tax the unhealthy people IMO. Or tax fatty/salty/unhealthy foods. Make meat extremely expensive so people have to eat something else.

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