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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    What fights to go SV on? And more!

    Just curious - on what fights do you spec SV (assuming MS BM)?

    And some more questions...
    1. how big is the difference between BM and SV *really*, on single-target? I can imagine it depends on the fight length? Does it get reduced/increased by gear?
    2. Completely off-topic, but how is MM AoE? Better/worse than BM? Burst/sustained?

    Thanks, and apologies for the seemingly random questions.

  2. #2
    I'd say single target, SV is behind, less than 5k in BiS gear, probably a lot less in 490ish gear.
    MM does a little more AoE i'd say than BM, assuming that both have barrage or glave toss. And I only change specs for wind lord mel'jarak, don't see a need for it on any other fight, atleast on normal on HC I have no idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zohlomg View Post
    /use NAMEOFTRINKET
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  3. #3
    Field Marshal Dragzy's Avatar
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    the fights i go SV on are really just 2..

    stone guards and will rest im bm
    Wind lord i belive is SV as well but i havnt gotten up to that boss yet but i assume its a SV fight

    MM aoe isnt that great mm needs sum srs work still

  4. #4
    I like SV on Elegon and Will of the emperor, maybe it's just my preferences but. (aswell as stone guard and wind lord, of course).

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    I go SV on Elegon, Will and Wind Lord. Just about to start Amber Shaper progress so I might go SV there if we need more multi dotting on the small adds.

  6. #6
    I consistently do better as survival on Elegon then I do with BM, might just be because Survival is somewhat easier for me to play.
    I also play survival for Stone Guards, Will, Windlord, Ambershaper if I have to do blobs and Empress(Probably the most debatable)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    I go SV on Elegon, Will and Wind Lord. Just about to start Amber Shaper progress so I might go SV there if we need more multi dotting on the small adds.
    Haven't really thought about it, but I did do Elegon as SV today and it was a hell of a lot easier to kill the orbs with 4piece t14 seeing as LnL procs all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zohlomg View Post
    /use NAMEOFTRINKET
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    /cast charge
    /gquit
    /cast mortal strike
    /cast bladestorm

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Empress(Probably the most debatable)
    I think for the "middle" phase where you AoE it is better, and for the boss damage BM is better.

  9. #9
    The Patient Varum93's Avatar
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    only wind lord i do and for amber shaper HC.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yavania View Post
    only wind lord i do and for amber shaper HC.
    Why wouldn't you do it for Will?

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    I'm surprised you don't go SV for more than that to be honest. On the following fights Raidbots reports that SV is ahead (10H, All Parses):

    Mel'jarak
    Amber-Shaper
    Grand Empress
    Stone Guard
    Elegon
    Will of the Emperor
    Sha of Fear

    And on these the difference is very minimal (though BM is still ahead):

    Zor'lok
    Garalon
    Feng
    Last edited by Serpent; 2012-12-28 at 04:05 AM.

  12. #12
    From a 25 man PoV:

    MSV:
    Stone Guards - BM if lightning tiles (we use 2x designated to light tiles 24/7 to get +200 lit up by the end of it) due to pet uptime and KC etc. Surv if not.
    Feng - Surv.
    Garajal - BM (note that if you have add-issues and are assigned to go in, surv shines ALOT later on with multishot. I can reach +120K numbers with both specs, but BM is dependant on not alot going on inside, while SV is dependant on inside falling behind to peak).
    Spirit kings - BM.
    Elegon - BM if burst is a non-issue on orbs. Surv with TOTH if it is. Contrary to belief, BM burst is worse than SV burst after the initial cooldown smackdown, atleast outside of Beastial Wrath. BW won't help you get every orb-wave down.
    Will of the Emperor - Survival. The AOE for rages is just non-comparable. Why take a hunter for the fight when ranged shines, if 50% of the dmg you do is gonna end up on the bosses through your pet anyway?


    HoF:
    Zorlok - BM. Outside of pets getting randomely instagibbed before they even get to attack, it will always be superior. Especially if your guild is putting the echo in a corner after the initial force and verve in P2 (your pet can stay in and dps boss while he attenuates in there, while you have to run to the other end of the room).
    Bladelord - BM. Pure singletarget fight with no real pet downtime to speak of. Having to run away means pet gets to shine again. Can strafe to shoot, but sometimes you're just not in the right position, so KC is a godsend.
    Garalon - BM. If you have to help out on legs due to bad spawn (top right leg, fuck you), pet gains 100% dmg increase on leg when sent in there. HUGE dps boost compared to surv.
    Windlord - *Extremely* tactic dependant. Personally, I use BM, as we follow the tactic: Nuke boss to 80%->Wiggle trapper to 40%, blade's to 30% (roughly), kill menders, nuke boss for 30 sec, nuke blade's for 10-15 sec, nuke boss for another 30 sec, nuke trapper for 10-15 sec, nuke boss for another 30 sec. This means that we REALLY can't have any stray AOE, at all - else the menders will die WAY too fast. Even the "natural" aoe that our tank does to keep threat, and our DK's does through howling blast, etc are almost too much. Which means that AOE'ing as surv is not even in the realm of possibilities.

    This tactic is however specially tailored due to the fact that our raiders seem to think wind bombs are damage boosting lollipops that they have to dive into as soon as they see them appear - I know alot of guilds just AOE, nuke boss, AOE till something more dies, nuke boss, AOE etc - and it's clearly the way I'd prefer to. I just prefer not to wipe for 2 hrs due to windbombs more than that.

    Ambershaper - Survival. Multishot becomes a stronger focus dump than AS under thrill of the hunt at 3 targets (pure damage - not accounting for keeping serpent sting up), which means that all you need is ONE ooze in melee to make it worth dumping multishots into the construct/monstrosity, along with the fact that multidotting oozes is SICK, especially if they end up getting clumped together near melee. Last phase is over so briefly that BM shines, but on the other hand, it doesn't even matter. Hard part is getting there.

    Shekzeer - I have not yet killed this boss. I personally am going to use Surv, due to the adds in P2, along with the fact that the poison buff (imbued poison?) is affected by survival's mastery, making it *far* closer in damage to BM (poison will account for 7-10% of your damage if used properly, if not more) than most people realise in terms of singletarget DPS.

    Terrace:
    Protectors - the only real choise here is survival. Pets do not get the %dmg modifier buff from the adds as of yet, which means that you will fall drastically further behind using BM than Surv. The only ranged class behind hunters on that particular fight (atleast on elite mode heroic - can't get logs for "normal" heroic, sadly. Stupid WOL) is elemental shamans. Shadow priests are only slightly ahead (and god knows they have it rough at the moment DPS-wise), but everything else is MILES ahead. Talking anywhere from 30-50K figures, here.
    Don't take that as hunters being especially "bad" - we're excellent for add-control due to surv's superb short-term burst windup (unload arcane shots and explosive shots over and over into the target with LnL/TOTH procs untill it falls over, reload, repeat for next add. Keep BA/Sting on nuke target ticking away). I'm usually in the top 3 if I recall correct, on the adds in my raids on normal heroic - and we have a group of four multidotters assigned to help every team take them down (2x locks, 2x boomkins). I'm just shooting them whenever they get close to the raid.

    Tsulong - not yet killed the boss. Surv seems to be the way to go due to the burst for adds. I am unsure if entrapment works on them - it did in normal for the first few weeks, but the past month or so (since 5.1) it simply won't trigger.

    Lei Shi - Beastmastery. Obvious reasons, highest singletarget damage, on-demand burst for the Get away's with BW, etc etc.

    Sha - not yet done this fight. Generally, though, as someone who hasn't done it yet - it seems to come down to two choises:
    Are your raid having issues with the platforms? If yes, go BM (superior singletarget damage for bursting platform adds down).
    Are your raid in P2, with no issues on platforms? If yes, go survival - multishotting each addwave whenever sting falls off provides IMMENSE amounts of damage, for one global every 15 seconds. On later waves (3 targets or more, remember) you're gonna be dumping multishots whenever TOTH procs and add incredible cleave damage to them.

    Anyone have any input?

  13. #13
    The Patient Varum93's Avatar
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    i just dont really like SV So i try to stay BM as much as possible.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yavania View Post
    i just dont really like SV So i try to stay BM as much as possible.
    Quite the opposite is true for me.
    Out of curiousity, care to elaborate? What is it you like about BM/dislike about SV?

  15. #15
    The only time I switch to SV is on Wind Lord.

    I personally see no difference between BM/SV on other fights where SV is 'supposed' to be ahead (like Will, Stone Guard).

  16. #16
    SV on Heroic Sha of Fear, Stone Guard, Will, and Wind Lord

  17. #17
    I know i should play BM for most fights but usually im SV. Even thou it's behind i play it better which i feel makes up for some of the DPS Loss by playing the Spec. If we're really tight on an enrage or i don't need to do something special in a fight or something like Lei Shi, Ill go BM but other than that SV.

  18. #18
    It really depends on normal vs heroic and progression vs farm. Optimal specs would be:
    MV:
    SG - SV for normal and heroic. BM is better if you're assigned to be the 'tile bitch'. In which case your pet can continue to wail on the dogs while you run around trying to help other op classes do even more dps.
    Feng - BM normal, SV for heroic if you need help with adds. If you have solid aoe classes in your raid, them BM. They're both equal, SV closes the gap with add aoe.
    Garajal - BM N/H. SV only if you have a bad comp and are getting a lot of adds.
    SK - BM N/H.
    Elegon - BM N/H. If you cheese the fight by multi dotting orbs/pillars/sparks then SV closes the gap, but still isn't entirely on par with BM.
    Will - depends on your role, but most likely you will be on adds/cc etc. SV all the way. For any strat. Non aoe or aoe. N/H.

    HoF:
    Vizier - BM N/H
    Blade lord - BM N/H
    Garalon - BM N/H
    Wind lord - SV N/H. BM for heroic if you're doing the burn one set at a time strat. Since BW is a short cd it does quite a bit of dmg during recklessness overall. If just going for aoe, then SV.
    Amber shaper - Depends on your role/raid. If you don't have enough multi dotters in raid and are assigned to kill blobs, then SV N/H. If not then BM N/H.
    Empress - Depends on comp. If adds are living too long, SV. If not, then BM. For normal. Adds will def live long enough on H, so SV.

    Terrace:
    Protectors - BM for normal. Although if it's on farm and you wanna pad and multi dot go SV. BM would be better to burn them quicker for progression, especially if you're doing elite. SV for H.
    Tsulong - BM N. SV possibly for heroic for adds.
    Lei Shi - BM N/H.
    Sha - BM N. SV H.

    Those would be the optimal specs based on mechanics and considering that they are progression at the time. If they're on farm you could go MM even for teh lulz. Ofcourse though if you're doing normal modes and you're more 'familiar' with SV you can go ahead and play it on all the fights, it won't matter. But for heroic progression I recommend those.

    Single target the difference between BiS gear BM and SV is about 3k dps. It's higher at lower gear.

    And i don't know whether MM aoe is higher than BM aoe. Beast cleave is pretty decent, though with a worm (burrow attack) i'd imagine BM pulling ahead slightly. But that's all irrelevant. Since if it's an aoe fight, who on their right mind would go MM. SV will mop the floor with the other two specs and for single target, BM is beastly. Just for reference though MM is about 5k behind BM on single target in BiS gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    The only time I switch to SV is on Wind Lord.

    I personally see no difference between BM/SV on other fights where SV is 'supposed' to be ahead (like Will, Stone Guard).
    You're doing it wrong.
    Last edited by Saoron; 2012-12-28 at 12:44 PM.

  19. #19
    All Heroic:

    ---MSV---
    Stone Guard
    Feng
    Elegon
    Will of Emps

    ---HoF---
    Meljarak
    Amber Shaper - Depends what your job is but i prefer SV here
    Empress - Poison fumes buff scales with mastery so it's single target is nearly identical to BM, and you get a ton more AoE.

    ---ToES---
    Protectors
    Tsulong (i help on dark of night or i'd be BM)
    Sha
    Last edited by Dela2k10; 2012-12-28 at 12:58 PM.
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  20. #20
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    I play SV on:

    H-SG
    H-Feng
    H-Gara'jal (not by choice, we don't have much DoT damage)
    H-Will

    H-Wind Lord
    H-Ambershaper
    H-Empress

    Haven't cracked H-ToES yet but I anticipate using it on 3 of 4 fights in there. It's not bad since the SrS buffs.

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