Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-28 at 09:00 AM.
You realize you will have to do the tier 14 raids anyways to get sigils and sha-touched weapons anyways, right?
It will be opened to cross-realm raiding, you'll easily find a group on openraid for that to help you gear up and not force guildees to carry you.
But knowing blizzard, there will be a way to catch up.
I don't think anyone would be happy when by the time they are ready for 5.2, 5.3 is hitting the live servers.
Having one shot at one boss for a week will not help in gearing for current patch-content... also think what this will mean for queue-times of the new content.
Why do you have to start raiding from 5.2 raid and skip current tier? it's really fun and you can gear up your guild in like a month or so.
My alt (see Nymsee in signature) has been level 90 now for 17 days. I hit 90 on 11th December (a tuesday so didn't do LFR that reset). I got my "Mystically Epic" achievement on the 20th December. As of 28th (and still need to do all LFRs/raids this week) my Shaman is at 487 item level. She has 1 LFR item (sad face right???).
It's not even hard to gear up.
Also, +1 to the guy who mentioned Sha-touched weapons + legendary gem.
Last edited by HamSandwichFace; 2012-12-28 at 12:37 PM.
If your friends want to raid together what does it matter if you can't skip a tier? Just clear one, then move on to the next one. Personally I feel the free loot festival disaster that came out of Wrath 5 mans skyrocketed the population of dreadful players in full epic gear which makes lfr horrendous, filtering people in guild recruitment nigh impossible through anything short of letting them into a raid and seeing them perform under pressure, and fostering a ridiculous culture of entitlement to being epic without effort.
Gearing in Pandaria is not terribly complicated. Run dungeons for a day, boom 463 ilvl (even higher with the upgrade shop), craft some gear 496 using blood spirits (what is gold dailycraft?), buy some valor gear with the points earned running dungeons, hit up lfr. Heck some of the rep factions hand out raid level epics for reaching exalted and the sha of please beat my ___ for free loot has tier sets, and you can roll TWICE on that with the charms of fortune, a luxury compared to its predecessors VoA and BH.
Blizzard makes dungeons because they fit with the world design and are relevant to the overall plot of the expansion. If they add them, great as long as it's interesting or challenging. If not, that's fine too. They have no reason to half ass some weaksauce instances with gear on par of the prior RAID just because some players are behind the curve in raiding. End of the day, it's their call, if they relent and hand out the epics fine, but I feel the people desperate for that kind of gear are missing the point of raiding in general.
TLDR: I hate to call out well written arguments but this whole thing is utter nonsense and here are my reasons.
1: Gearing in MoP IS NOT THAT HARD.
2: I have zero interest in even more heroics that do naught but produce skilless raiders in epics to flood the servers who drag pug raids to their death hiding behind a mask of ilvl.
3: If your guildies wanted YOU to raid with them, they should be glad to raid the prior content in order to gear for the newest. If that isn't the case, it wasn't YOU they were looking for...
Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"
They really should bump down the valor gear to justice in 5.2. I'm hardly doing any 5 mans in MoP because there's just no point to it. Too little valor to be worth it - I'm not one of the guys who easily do 30 dungeon runs in a week, just don't have the time. It's just not enough carrot on that stick this time around.
If they made the current valor gear available for justice, there would be a reason to do dungeons. It would something that's in some sort of realistic reach. The way valor is handled right now, I would be able to get a piece every two months or something. At that rate, you might as well leave it be - what I basically did.
This is a very tricky balance, and also sums up the problem with WoW in general.
You can not and never will keep everyone happy.
The exact thing you want to implement was the exact same thing that caused forum posts exactly like yours in cata but moaning about it but from the other side of the argument, "Why should I stay subbed when I can just sub at launch of 4.3 run 20 5 mans in 5 hours and be the same iLvl of the people who raided all of 4.2 and stayed subbed for 6 months"
I am 100% convinced it is impossible to keep everyone happy.
I am also 100% convinced that blizzard will (hopefully) never ever implement a tier of 5 mans that completely obliterates gear from the previous raiding tier, this makes people play for a week gear up do LFR and then unsub.
They want people to gear up over time in preparation for the next tier (like it used to be).
I do think there will be some changes though, couple of examples.
1) Will they up the rewards from the scenarios cache as a way of catching up a bit (476 blues and 483 epics maybe?) this would be probably quite easy to implement as they stats are randomly generated.
2) Will there be a new crafted blue PvP set (476 blues maybe?) 476 blue PvP gear is very good for PvE these days as the PvP stats are "free" when you look at iLvl.
3) Will there be new crafted epics or blues?
4) There will defo be new Valor Point gear.
I am sure there are other ways as well.
I don't think many people would complain at these option and might help give people give a "leg up".
Your post goes very much out of its way to just ignore the many many many ways of getting gear just by saying for example "Casuals can't do Dailies", Really? Casuals are who Dailies are aimed at surely?
Remember this is very early on in the patch cycle so not everything is on PTR yet.
So as always I think blizzard will try and balance it to "try" and keep everyone happy but everyone knows whatever they do there will be posts moaning about it.
Last edited by Quilzar; 2012-12-28 at 01:30 PM.
Scenarios already have a chance to drop 476 purples; I've gotten two on my alt. I suspect that they'll inch up the scenario rewards with each patch. And scenarios are so easy as long as you're not dual specced healer/healer.
Your original post probably sounded very logical and rational in your mind, but it reads just a little bit whiny. We have only just seen the very first PTR build. We haven't yet confirmed the item levels for the new raid. We haven't seen any BoE's datamined. We don't know what new craftables are coming in. We don't know if there are new quest rewards.
So assuming that the 'only' logical way a person starting from dungeon blues could gear up for the raids is by running hypothetical new 5-mans is preposterous, as other people in this thread have pointed out. Blizzard has already made it easy to gear up without setting foot in a normal mode raid. There are a number of alternate ways they can make gear available to you without adding new 5-mans.
I'm fairly sure you didn't intend your original post to read the way that many of us have interpreted it. However, I believe that calling out for more 5-mans before we've seen the entire plan for valor and justice items, craftables, BoEs and gear drops from scenarios is premature.
And discounting craftables and BoEs because of the cost... if your guild isn't willing to help you with crafting upgrades to bring you to the right item level, I believe they are not serious about wanting you to raid with them. Likewise, if they're not willing to bring you along on farm content. An active raiding guild should have the resources to get you at least one 496 item, if not both.
Sometimes I wonder if Blizz employees test opinions on upcoming changes by making troll bait posts on MMO-C.
This is a far better way to do this than by instantly grinding 3 heroics over and over again to get gear equivalent to the previous tier. It will keep old tiers relevant and part of the overarching story.
We ran Firelands for 10 weeks after DS came out to finish the last of our legendaries. It's something organized guilds can do easily. We could do it in less than an hour, 7/7H. That's the beauty of a gear progression-based game - old bosses fall over, even 1 tier later.
Does onyone who says so posses any proff of this ? any blue or q&a quote ? and what if this doesn't happen ?
Last edited by kamuimac; 2012-12-28 at 02:13 PM.
Requiring you to run LFR of prior tiers in order to gear for raids is far better than just tossing gear at your characters. Why?
Very simple. Why would I be interested in getting someone who hasn't played the game in years, or even Ever, to run current content? They need to invest time in learning/relearning their character. While not the *greatest* way to teach you how to play, LFR is better than "I ran some Heroics and did some dailies for two days, I am READY TO RAID!".
And ilvl 485 really? that would pretty much make all the current LFR gear obsolete and to a smaller extent make the 489 ilvl gear obsolete too. And would also make all the current MoP dungeons obsolete as everyone would only do those new ones pretty much what they did near the end of Cata, a mistake I hope they don't repeat.
I read a blue post somewhere on this subject and they said they didn't want to repeat the mistakes they made with the Hour of Twilight heroics dungeons or something like that.
Last edited by grexly75; 2012-12-28 at 02:28 PM.
You can get full 471 by doing 5 mans alone now, add some LFR, rep rewards and other 496 valor, with upgrades ontop, if that's not enough justice will probably get you the current valor gear when 5.2 hits the scene.