Patch 5.2, disappointment for people returning to raids.

[miffy23]

You know what i really love? All the people who whined about wanting TBC progression model back (when you HAD to do the entire raid content before being able to enter the end game tier) and now QQing ^^ Just proves they either had no idea what they were talking about or simply whining for the sake of it.

There's really no discussion to be had here, the thread originator has clearly been away from the game for a while and yes, you have been unlucky in LFR. So what? You've been farming Justice and Valor points for what? 5 weeks? Are you kidding me? I have 3 alts at 48x just by doing LFR and getting JP Upgrades/VP rewards. This is nothing but a pure whine post and hardly constructive. There are so many options to gear up right now it's absurd, there is no gap at all. ESPECIALLY with most rewards being bumped down to JP next tier for sure. Please.

If you want to complain about the creative decision LFR/Scenarios > 5 mans, please go ahead. In my humble opinion classic 5 mans have begun to become obsolete with this instant queue system. I don't really miss them, the raids are too good this expansion ^^

[Warsfeil]

If you need to change specs you have to farm heroics to get decent gear fo lfr. Then there is 16 bosses in lfr plus sha that gives loot. Plus there is 3 coins each week to get more gear. And you can upgrade your gear with item upgrade (463-477). And you can buy valor and justice gear from shops. There are lots of ways to get gear mate. So im supporting that there is no new dungeon and if there is new dungeon no more itemlvl than 463.

[Granyala]

I hope they don't bump any gear down to jp.

Gear up though LFR. After all, the LFR wasn't meant just for the hardcore no-lifers who play wow all the time, everyone including the casual players deserves to play though it. In fact, it would be awesome if you had to grind though all available LFR tiers before being raid-ready. This way you would see all of the amazing content Blizzard rolled out for you over the course of the expansion.

You can't gear up in LFR. Not in a reasonable time frame. 15% chance at any loot with the possibility of repetition/duplicates is just too low to catch up.

So: Yeah. I hope they lower Ilvl 489 to JP.

[Deleted]

Lol, really? Remember TBC? Even at the last patch you had people who was still in Kara. There was nothing like "woop new patch. Now the old content is faceroll and we got all this new gear instantly"

Just go pugs in MSV/HoF/ToES... Imo you should be able to jump in at the same progression if you just came back. What about our progression and preperations in previous tiers. Should they become useless just because you want to join the game again?

[Mandible]

You know what i really love? All the people who whined about wanting TBC progression model back (when you HAD to do the entire raid content before being able to enter the end game tier) and now QQing ^^ Just proves they either had no idea what they were talking about or simply whining for the sake of it.

There's really no discussion to be had here, the thread originator has clearly been away from the game for a while and yes, you have been unlucky in LFR. So what? You've been farming Justice and Valor points for what? 5 weeks? Are you kidding me? I have 3 alts at 48x just by doing LFR and getting JP Upgrades/VP rewards. This is nothing but a pure whine post and hardly constructive. There are so many options to gear up right now it's absurd, there is no gap at all. ESPECIALLY with most rewards being bumped down to JP next tier for sure. Please.

If you want to complain about the creative decision LFR/Scenarios > 5 mans, please go ahead. In my humble opinion classic 5 mans have begun to become obsolete with this instant queue system. I don't really miss them, the raids are too good this expansion ^^

You mean the way that you could easily do Karazhan, Za or later on get badge gear to catch up? Yes, you could technically call that doing entire raids at current content for that, but it was however also easy enough to get groups for those raids to pug. Besides that there were plenty instances to get gear from as well, and did I mention badge gear again? Far more than we are seeing for mop - so no gear was not an issue in that matter. The current way is more RNG than anything, and as a sidenote "back then" people weren´t obsessed with ilvl since what mattered was having the right gear not just an inflated stat to enter instances.

The problem isn´t that it isn´t "easy" to catch up (as in rng easy), but having to do the same instances over and over again. Also compared to a 5 man for lfr you would have to wait for 24 more, and with new content people would be less willing to do the old ones. At least I know I cringe at the thought having to keep doing the same crappy lfr just because they didn´t make new 5 man.

[Deleted]

So doing Karazhan or ZA to catch up was something great in old TBC times.

But now doing MV, HOF, TES to catch up is something really really bad ?



You have now exactly same situation - adding new 5 mens wouldnt be same TBC solution since you CANT compare raids with instances. You can compare instances with instances and raids with raids.

[miffy23]

I'm sorry you're conveniently forgetting the hard quest gate/attunement gate you had to go through. YOU HAD TO. It wasn't a question of gear. As for gear, yes due to stat inflation it's more critical to have ilvl-appropriate gear atm, however you still couldn't hop into anything in quest greens even back then. And as for "running the same content over and over again"...that's exactly what you did back then as well...i fail to see your point how it was so much better then. Plus add in the factor of NO LFD system at the time, making time spent to gear up from an extended break or offspec, or whatever, that much more than now.

And i'm sorry as a DPS it takes you maybe 30 minutes even at ridiculous times to get into an LFR, yet alone as healer or tank. In that time you can continue dailies for rep/valor, queue for scenarios/dungeons (you know u can queue for them simultaneously now, right?). Fact of the matter is, if you know what's out there you can gear up in hours, i'm not exaggerating. I got a full set offspec gear on one of my characters in literally 5-6 hours just queueing LFR and getting lucky scenario/5man drops. Yes, it was very lucky but it just goes to show the many options you have today. Back then, you had...1. Get blues from some 5 mans, go Kara/Zul as you said. Then hope to god you have a nice enough guild/pugs that get you through all the gated content. Please...

[Deleted]

They don't want to waste efforts on creating new dungeons when you have extremely accessible old LFR raids as catch-up mechanism.
They just have to maybe increase a bit droprates for those raids, and with the new daily hub which probably will give high ilvl rewards you have your headstart and can begin 5.2 LFR in reasonable little time.

[Jacob6875]

You can already buy cheap 476 epics and blues for most classes that let you instantly get into the first tier of raid finder. Just questing now you can get honored / revered with most of the factions and with current valor gear likely becoming purchasable with justice points you will easily be able to get into hof / toes and the new raids raid finder. With all that gear you should be able to easily find normal mode pugs for the first three raids as well.

Also don't forget about the 4 world bosses that you can get loot off of as well. I don't think gearing has ever been easier than it is about to be next patch.

[NightZero88]

You want to run 5 mans and give you everything (Gear, Rep and Valor).

You say you want to get rep from 5 mans to make it fair.

OK someone spends 20 mins doing dailies gets Valor and Rep.

Someone spends 20 mins doing a 5 man gets Gear, Valor and Rep?

And that to you is fair? To add to that you can't do 16 dailies in 20 mins so doing daily 5 man is already more rewarding than dailies.

I would be more than happy (and they are) if they added more ways of getting stuff (rep in particular).

I would be more than happy if they added some nicer gear to 5 mans (like in ToC) but not raining epics like the 4.3 heroics.

I am 100% against 5 mans been the best way of getting everything all this means is no one ever does anything else and eventually causes massive burn out.

I will also 100% agree they went "to far" with the Daily model at the start of MoP and they are reeling that in a bit, 5.1 dailies are a much more sensible amount as you get rep from all the storyline parts as well.

In 5.2 I fell they will reel the rep requirements in even more (or maybe even remove some of them completely).

You have also said your method "cuts content" how is this good for the long term game? As the expansion grows I want my content set to grow not shrink.

Anyways I think I have wasted enough energy trying to explain why "Spam 2 or 3 5 mans and get everything in the game is terrible design". We are never going to agree. I am really really trying to promote other ideas for people to catch up gear and the only thing you want is "give me everything from 5 mans now".

I just ./pray Blizzard does not got back to the horrible horrible Cata model.

You asked what I wanted and I told you. You can believe I'm wrong all you like and that's your choice but it is how I preferred it and I thought the game was better for it. In that model, when one of my raiders couldn't make it, we could pug one and check his gear (make sure he had full epics) and then teach him tactics. If it didn't work out we could replace him easily enough. But now, it's unlikely we'll be able to find one of those players because they will be in guilds as it will be the only decent way of gearing up. On low pop servers this is a death sentence but Blizz has shown they don't particularly care about low pop servers and their fix is CRZ (which doesn't work for current tiers, we tried. At least not yet.)

Here again, all it gives is the lowest level of gear (which heroics do currently), gives rep and valor. The only thing it gives that dailies don't currently give is a shot at gear.

It's funny you mention massive burnout but I don't think I've heard as much gripping about burnout as there was due to the new daily model. That should tell you something.

I am VERY glad they're moving the dailies to give more rep for less like the dominance model instead of the golden lotus model. That will make things better but dailies are still your only source of coins and rep. Rep may change and you have a "Low" chance to get coins from pet battles (I don't personally do that though).

I don't think cutting content is good, but adding in new heroics would only drop the heroic pool by around 4 (depending on how many they make, currently 9).

I again agree you're right, neither one of us is going to convince the other player and you're the only person in my mind who's being reasonable about the topic and offering suggestions/seeing other sides of the coin so I'll be done as well. Cheers.

[Deleted]

That assumes that people have the reputation to buy them (unless it was really low) and also JP are really slow to gain as well as valor gear only covering a limited amount of slots.

If they removed the rep requirements while moving the gear over to Justice, that would too solve the issue.

[rated]

TL;DR: No 5 man dungeons are a bad idea for the next patch as they allowed players who were not raiding or took breaks in previous patches to catch up as well as for current raiders to change specs and be at an appropriate level for the new content.

Such a long post for a point so small. Even though you don't want to recognize or accept it there are other ways to acquire gear. You can either take advantage of those and still gear up and be ready to raid with your guild or you can choose not to. Just because it's done in a different way then what you're a custom to from the previous expansion is your problem.

[Deleted]

You can already buy cheap 476 epics and blues for most classes that let you instantly get into the first tier of raid finder. Just questing now you can get honored / revered with most of the factions and with current valor gear likely becoming purchasable with justice points you will easily be able to get into hof / toes and the new raids raid finder. With all that gear you should be able to easily find normal mode pugs for the first three raids as well.

Also don't forget about the 4 world bosses that you can get loot off of as well. I don't think gearing has ever been easier than it is about to be next patch.

Arguably you are wrong. Gearing has been quite easy in WOTLK with unlimited Valor from Dungeons once ToTC came out and you did not have to have any rep for that. I got my fresh 80 lock the entire set after two-three days worth of heroics grinding -- something that you cannot do at all right now.

[Deleted]

You asked what I wanted and I told you. You can believe I'm wrong all you like and that's your choice but it is how I preferred it and I thought the game was better for it. In that model, when one of my raiders couldn't make it, we could pug one and check his gear (make sure he had full epics) and then teach him tactics. If it didn't work out we could replace him easily enough. But now, it's unlikely we'll be able to find one of those players because they will be in guilds as it will be the only decent way of gearing up. On low pop servers this is a death sentence (...)

Death sentence for who ? I still dont get it after i read your post. Mayby think about inviting more ppl to your guild ? You already wrote that they wants now to join them since its the only possibility to get gear. Raiders rotation is very good thing even when ppl can have 100% att. When you dont have that kind of ppl - not heaving any other raiders is not only stupid thing - its suicide. You are just doing wrong with your guild thats all.

[jrch5618]

Going by the difference between Cata tiers, 19 ilevels, the Throne of Thunder ilevels should be...

LFR 502, Normal 515, Heroic 528

Which makes it, as Blizzard promised, so that 5.2 LFR ilevels < 5.0 heroics at 509 (disregarding MSV).

And if there's any Elite gear, could be 535 before upgrades. Upgraded, you could have 543 ilevel gear. (Let's leave Asia's oddities out of this one.)

[Volbian]

Here's what i get from the OP's post.

His guild gave him notice to raid with them for 5.2(which probably wont be released until Feb/Mar). So instead of getting on top of it and starting to play now to catch up, he simply wants to slack off for 3 mnths and get Epics handed to him on a golden platter, when patch hits. Sounds like this is a personal problem.

Complaining about no 5 mans is just an excuse for being lazy. It isnt hard gearing up. My alt mage, hit 90 and in 2 days hit ilvl 470, to get into HoF LFR. AND i dont have any rep other then Cloud Serpents(thats with commodations). I Choose not to do dailies. There's crafted items, which are inexpensive, you can upgrade your Ilvl with VP now which also helps. I dont even have Lesser Charms to use. You dont have to grind anything out, if you choose not to and its still easy to gear up.

In 5.2, all current VP gear will be JP gear, with also changes to Scenarios droppin Epics. Its the same shit. If you're gonna read patch notes. Read everything and not bitch about one aspect of the game which isnt gonna be available. Lesser Charms will be easier to get, not just thru dailies. VP and JP will be easier to get. Rep will be easier to get. I dont see how all of this complaining about 5 mans and gearing up is an issue?

Your claim, as being a casual player, then earn your gear casually. This is not a race to experience current content. Wait for LFR one week after ToT comes out, like alot of "casual" players did. Stop complaining so damn much about little things. 10million people plays this game. Blizz wont cry if you dont come back. Get over yourself. You're not a special snowflake.

[Sparkiee]

[soulcrusher]

Surely keeping raids current and not just abandoning them is a good thing. Having maxed my main I'm looking forward to running these on alts rather than grinding 5 mans.

[deviantcultist]

It is sad having all those whining "devoted pros" insist on having an old school progression. It is now that you actually get to do dailies and pursue luck in lfr in order to reach the next raiding tier. My guild has cleared through MSV and half HoF and there is doubt on whether I'll be eligible to do 5.2 lfr or not.

[Deleted]

Even without new dungeons to get a few pieces from, it still seems fairly easy to gear up for 5.2
Like running lfr and pugging 5.1 raids, will be even easier when 5.2 lands when you can use features such as openraid?